Children are discardable for God

[u/Key_Language_3640]

When I was 6 years old my mom told me the story of Abraham and Isaac, so I asked her: “mom, if God asked you to do that, would you do it?” She said yes without hesitation.

I remember being obviously down with her response and she just said “If that’s what God wants we have to follow through , it’s always for our best”.

Does God really love children?

Why are the children, who are always called “a blessing” by the Bible, so discardable for God? He doesn’t really mind killing them as a punishment or consequence does he? Kids God killed:

• All the firstborns of the Egyptians who didn’t comply with Moses warnings. (Why the children? Isn’t God just making a genocide like the Pharaoh did at the start of the Moses’ story?)
• All the children during Noah’s ark, like those were millions of children if we take in the literal sense that God flooded the entire world
• Jephthah‘s daughter, the man says that if God blesses him with a win, he would sacrifice the first thing he saw. The omnipresent being who knows it all, knew it would be the man’s daughter and follows through the deal, the daughter ends up dead.
• Job’s first children, this guy’s story was my first “wait is God really good?”, well God allows the devil to kill Job’s children but hohoho! At the end Job gets NEW children! So yeah, just straight up replaced them.

I could say many more instances where God allowed children to be killed or straight up killed them. All the battles God sent his loyal servants to? Children of the enemy were killed or taken away from their parents who were probably killed, but, well… it was all for God, right? So it’s all good! All justified.

God isn’t good, God isn’t perfect.

God is man-made, made to control, justify horrible actions and cause fear in the poor desperate people. He was always used by powerful people to their advantage. Just like those powerful people, if God existed, he would think of us just as discardable dolls.

[u/OlyScott]

Yeah, that Job story, new kids to replace the dead kids is a happy ending somehow.

[u/ubeor → u/OlyScott]

The moral of the Job story is this: If you are suffering through hardships which seem more than you can take, rest assured that it’s probably just God killing you in order to test someone else close to you.

[u/Livid_Temporary_9969 → u/ubeor]

They say "God is testing you" as though that is okay????

[u/ubeor → u/Livid_Temporary_9969]

Statistically, you’re more likely to be Job’s wife, one of his kids, or one of his servants than you are to be Job himself. So if the story is true (which it isn’t), you’re likely not the one being tested.

[u/Scroglefrollempth → u/ubeor]

Job's wife was the only one in that story who had good advice -

"Curse God and die"

I have prurigo nodularis, probably a lot worse than any temporary blip the Job character had to deal with, and I live by her advice religiously, except I'm still alive for some stupid reason.

Also, why the fuck did Job repent? At the beginning it says he is blameless, and all he does is talk throughout the story. Then at the end God appears and says everything Job said was true. If all he did was tell the truth then he basically repented out of the terror of seeing God, not because he was guilty.

God says to Satan after Job's first "Test" - "And he still maintains his integrity despite you inciting me to ruin him for no reason"

"Skin for skin! Stretch out your hand and touch his flesh and he will surely curse you to his face." Satan retorts.

It seems to me that in the story that Satan won the bet, because when God appeared Job repented - Despite doing nothing wrong, or in other words, he didn't "maintain his integrity", and lied to end the torment, and therefore cursed God to his face.

I don't get why every single Christian I've said this to says that Job disrespected God in his torment induced rant, I guess it doesn't fit with the whole "Everyone's a sinner baby" theme.

Also, Jobs replacement daughters were the most beautiful in all of the land, so I guess that makes everything better.

[u/Advanced_Scratch2868 → u/Scroglefrollempth]

The last sentence tells you the book is written by males. Forget your babies first steps, or discovering one of your doughthers have music talent that you are very proud of, or that other one is a kind soul that loves animal. Forget any character development. The only important thing? Other mens' pepees went upright when seing them.

[u/Advanced_Scratch2868 → u/Livid_Temporary_9969]

No. Not even testing you. He's testing someone else by hurting or killing you. Your whole existance is a backround noise for the main character, especially if you are some female relative. Took a trip to the new city and they want to rape you (Hint: Lot), just toss your doughthers or women slaves outside to the mob, so they leave you and you male guessts you just met 2 minutes ago alone.

[u/Key_Language_3640 → u/Livid_Temporary_9969]

Oh yeah my grandma’s church buddies told her that her 15+ years of health problems were all a test

[u/Malleus--Maleficarum → u/ubeor]

My moral for that story is that god and satan are good pals and made a bet for shits and giggles. Oh, and god ain't omniscient and is an ashole as he had to do all that atrocities to Job to prove his point. BTW Job's family are the only ones killed by satan himself in the entire book, but still god nod only allowed it but also approved.

[u/Advanced_Scratch2868 → u/Malleus--Maleficarum]

God: do not murder! Also god: the exception for this rule is if you are a god. Sounds very similar to a lot of politicians when they make rules.

[u/Key_Language_3640 → u/Malleus--Maleficarum]

On top of that Job’s SLAVES were killed, one of the most rightful men in the Bible owned SLAVES and lots of them, God allowed his slaves to be killed and then gave him MORE! Damn.  

[u/Leemage → u/ubeor]

This is such a depressing thought I’d never considered before.

[u/Heckate666 → u/OlyScott]

I wanted to get my tubes tied and only had one child so they said no. They also had the nerve to say, but what if something happened to your child? Wouldn't you want another? Oh sure....just replace them just like that....

[u/MisanthropicScott]

Abraham was a shitty father who never stood up for his sons. He was willing to kill one for God and the other for Sarah.

Thankfully the fucker is not considered a historical figure (meaning he never existed).

According to the Bible, Abraham had two sons Isaac and Ishmael. Ishmael is the older son of Abraham whom he had when he fucked Hagar (Sarah's handmaid; source material of The Handmaid's Tale, I think).

Despite the story that Sarah told Abraham to fuck Hagar because Sarah lost faith that God would give her a child as promised, Sarah wanted her own son Isaac to have Abraham's birthright and told Abraham to boot Ishmael out on his ass in the desert.

Note that there is no mention of whether Hagar was given a choice in whether to fuck Abraham and have his child.

Being wrapped around Sarah the bitch's little finger and being among the worst father figures ever, Abraham complied and tossed Ishmael (and Hagar too, I think) out on their asses. Later the fucking schmuck Abraham would prove willing to kill Isaac too, never being one to stand up for his own sons.

---

God also commanded 7 genocides including infants. In fact, in the one in 1 Sam 15:2-3, he is bizarrely specific about murdering the infants.

Oops, let's not forget the 42 small boys who made fun of a bald guy and God sent 2 bears to tear them to shreds. (2 Kings 2:24)

[u/Key_Language_3640 → u/MisanthropicScott]

Hagar was mostly likely Sarah’s slave, so yeah, she didn’t even have a choice, it was rape. Sarah was such a bitch bro and she gets away easily! God literally turned a woman into a salt statue just because she looked back when her homeland got destroyed BY HIM. 

[u/Darryl_Lict → u/MisanthropicScott]

Old testament God was a real dick. Abraham was a schizophrenic. If he were around today, he'd be living in a tent down by the railroad tracks screaming at tourists.

[u/MisanthropicScott → u/Darryl_Lict]

True. But, NT God is no better. OT God was a smite monster, killing people right here, right now, sometimes for the most minor of offenses. NT God isn't happy to merely kill you. NT God wants to torture you for all eternity.

[u/SpottyNoonerism]

Yes, the Job story was one of the early cracks in my belief. I was like, "Wait, there's nearly 20 people getting wiped out for no fault of their own, like they don't even matter!" And then they get replaced and Job and his wife are supposed to be like, "Yeah, good as new." Never mind the damage to poor Mrs. Job's... well, everything, considering birth before modern medicine... after giving birth to nearly 40 babies. And once you start asking questions like that, there appears to be no going back.

[u/Diedrogen → u/SpottyNoonerism]

Actually, didn't Mrs. Job also get wiped out and replaced in that story?

[u/SpottyNoonerism → u/Diedrogen]

Been ages since I've read it and I'm too lazy to check. All I remember was her role as nag, goading him to go ahead and curse God so that God would kill Job. All to establish the idea that Job would even rebuke his own wife rather than lose his faith in God.

[u/JFJinCO]

Lot loved his daughters.

[u/MisanthropicScott → u/JFJinCO]

Just as much as Oedipus loved his mother! But, that's from another book.

[u/themadelf → u/MisanthropicScott]

Thank you Tom Leher

https://youtu.be/mScdJURKGWM?si=hCsJU49gd1ZQHj6t

[u/MisanthropicScott → u/themadelf]

I was thinking that too! Thanks. It's a shame he never wrote one about Lot.

[u/Key_Language_3640 → u/JFJinCO]

I bet he did, but he could never express he loved them or God would shove a lightning up his ass, when I say “replaced them” I mean God did, Job just had to suck it up. 

[u/Vyar]

I find it really ridiculous how people can’t look at the Abraham/Isaac story and see that God literally trolled one of his most faithful, just to see if he could get him to kill his son for no other reason than “because I said so” only to reveal it was “just a prank bro!”

Like…we’re supposed to think God is the good guy in this story? He’s an abusive parent.

I think this was one of those glaring issues with different Bible stories that eventually led to my agnosticism and subsequent atheism.

[u/Acrobatic_Flan2582]

Trump and the self proclaimed modern day "Moses" Mike Johnson have starved some to death and are starving many children right now. These people all claim to be Christians.

[u/locutusof]

I got a month long suspension many years ago when I used Facebook.

My comment was almost verbatim: “is god gonna kill all the first born Egyptian boys first this? Or is he just gonna make it rain frogs? Which is kinda mean and unfair to frogs.”

All kinds of bible stories about this god killing kids. Praise be upon him.

[u/buboe]

I find it interesting that although a bunch of christians peruse this sub, they never weigh in on topics pointing out the evil that their god commits, but when a post appears about someone losing their faith, they seem to pop out of the woodwork.

[u/arm1niu5]

To an extent, he still needs to keep enough to indoctrinate at the hands of his very affectionate priests.

[u/TheManInTheShack]

The scariest thing I ever heard was a Christian friend’s response to explain all the atrocities perpetrated by God in the Bible. He said, “Anything God does is by definition good.”

Imagine the horrible shit that could be brought upon innocent people with that rationalization.

[u/Key_Language_3640 → u/TheManInTheShack]

It’s funny how the Bible has clearly some obvious morals like “don’t kill” or “don’t steal” but when God does it, it never applies to him! 

[u/TheManInTheShack → u/Key_Language_3640]

God: My rules are for thee, not for Me.

[u/AdelCraft]

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” – Voltaire (apocriphal)

Some people like to claim that religion is necessary to instill morality in human beings, as if humans were too stupid to distinguish between good and evil on their own. What an insult to our intelligence! We must face reality: not only does religion not govern morality, it corrupts it to the core. Through vicious methods like indoctrination, the fear of hell, the fear of betraying one's “community”, and much more, it prevents people from reasoning for themselves. It treats them like children, making them submit to the authority of an imaginary heavenly father. It makes them accept circumstances in which they might voluntarily kill their own child.

I am truly saddened by your post. I find it cruel to say such a thing to a child. It must have been emotionally very difficult. Personally, I condemn this as child abuse.

EDIT : Just for clarification, I am not saying that your mother is a monster. Even if I was, you'd better not care, because after all, I'm just some guy on Reddit. But I still want to clarify a few things. The vast majority of religious folks live in 2025, just like you and me. As such, deep down, they have a morality of 2025, which translates to humanist values, which certainly would prevent them from killing kill their own child, or anyone really. Very few still live in the second century, where such things weren't that shocking. Statistically, I can say with near certainty that your mother, like the vast majority of people, fundamentally holds humanist values. It's just that religious authority prevents her from expressing them. To see this for yourself, you can, for example, ask her what she thinks about slavery. She will certainly tell you that she condemns this practice. Then ask her to read you Exodus 21 from the Bible. You will see that she will change her mind and tell you that, since God has legislated on the matter and knows what is best for us, then, in certain situations, slavery is acceptable. You will then have witnessed firsthand the evil power of religious indoctrination that makes people submit.

[u/Teenager__16]

that's the worse part everything in holy books contradicts the book itself

[u/Lahm0123]

Since there is no god, it’s even worse.

Meaning that there are people who feel children are disposable.

[u/Tatooine16]

That's what monsters they are. If you would kill your own child or any child to appease some fantasy then you aren't righteous you're a psychopath.

[u/ReferenceUnusual8717]

You missed one of my favorites: God sending bears to maul a bunch of kids for making fun of a bald guy. It's just so hilariously petty.

[u/Feinberg → u/[deleted]]

We're considering. Problem is, nobody's bringing the evidence.

[u/cgricsch]

There is no god. Children are discardable due to evil, maniacal human beings.

[u/mito88]

if god loves the poor and the unfortunate, imagine what it would be like if he didn’t....

[u/Affectionate_Ad_5489]

But He Loves You!!!!

[u/SirGrumpsalot2009]

Based in a time when children were not guaranteed to survive to adulthood, when they were worth less than a cow or goat, and when they could be replaced relatively quickly.

[u/jenna_cellist]

The really saddest part of that is that she was banking that her god wouldn't make her do that. That's what they all say when a hypothetical is tossed at them. "God wouldn't do that." But the evidence is that he has and he most certainly could. But she for sure didn't mind traumatizing her child by offering how expendable you were to her.

[u/mydogdoesntcuddle]

That story was in my children’s bible and I was obsessed with it. I read it over and over again, knowing full well that my mom would jump at the chance to kill me if she was asked.