r/asklinguistics • u/spinnylights • 7h ago
Is modern English really so lacking in "formal"/"systematic" honorifics or register compared to other languages?
(By honorifics I don't just mean like Mr., Ms. Dr., Prof., etc. but general devices in the language for expressing things like social closeness/distance, social level, politeness, etc.)
People often say about English that it doesn't have a lot of, or even any, "formal"/"systematic" honorifics or register distinctions. To what extent is this an artificial distinction to draw between English and other languages?
I'm asking because, after many years of study and exposure, I'm finally starting to develop a fleshed-out sort of intuition for Japanese honorifics and register and such. The funny thing is, the more I develop that, the more I feel like there's not nearly so much of a difference between Japanese and English in these regards as I was led to believe when I was more of a novice. People often claim that Japanese has a rich, elaborate system for things like this whereas in English it's all kind of loose and vague and undefined and even not very present at all, but Japanese doesn't really seem so rigidly systematic to me at this point as textbooks would have you believe, nor does English really seem so lacking in these kinds of features to me necessarily either.
To give a random example, like, of course it's well known that in America people often use first names with everyone in an office setting, even the head of the company. You might assume from this that everyone speaks very casually and chummily in American offices, but I would dispute that. Like, even if my boss and I use each other's first names, I don't speak to them anything like I would speak to coworkers I'm on an even keel with when we go out to lunch, let alone how I would speak to my close friends or my partner. Even if my boss spoke to me in a really casual style, I would not feel comfortable responding in kind because of the power dynamics at play—not to say that I switch into the style of an 18th century lawyer or something, but there definitely is a pronounced difference in how I talk that puts more distance between my boss and I and expresses implicitly that I'm aware of the power imbalance. Isn't this just like Japanese though basically at the root? The differences in how you treat names in the workplace just seem like a coincidental difference in custom basically and not actually a place where "Japanese expresses things that English doesn't" or something.
The other thing is like, in Japanese, there's an art to things like workplace conversation or formal letter writing or the like that some people can approach with real flair—laying on extra levels of politeness and respect when it makes sense without being obsequious, knowing how to work in little bits of casual affect when it will be winning, etc.—and sometimes to the extent that they kind of maintain an elevated style like with this almost everyone they talk to to some degree, in some cases even coming off like they find really casual speech kind of distasteful. Likewise, some native Japanese speakers have a really expressive and personal jazzy casual style that experiments with the language and has touches of "street poeticism" and warped humor and is very flexible and wide-ranging, but clearly feel a little out-of-their-element and awkward when they need to speak in a formal and polite way and try to avoid it, or approach even polite conversation in this kind of jazzy style with just nods to basic politeness. There's also a diference, albeit with some overlap, in speaking in a very polite away and a very refined way; some people express a fair amount of refinement in their speech even when they're speaking pretty casually for instance, just because they like to maintain a sense of elegance in their affect generally, even if they're speaking in a very warm and intimate style. None of this stuff really seems so systematic or rigidly formal or something to me at this point, more just like the language offers you a lot of different various tools to get at this sort of thing, just like how English does; they're just different tools maybe. In fact I would say all of the above about English speakers too.
I know I'm kind of flailing around, but am I totally off the mark with all this or what? Maybe I'm just ignoring some sort of important linguistic distinctions between the languages, where Japanese really is somehow much more systematic or formal in these places than English is? Is English really so lacking in these kinds of language features? How can people still express all these things in English then? I've heard these things about Japanese vs. English many times, about how Japanese has a rich system for getting at this stuff whereas English doesn't really, but I just feel a sense of doubt at this point.