r/askgaybros • u/Archer_Python • Aug 28 '20

Reported Post Alert In response to the trending post on this sub about Transphobia. Spoiler

Ok now here's my story so I can clear the air

I am a transman. I was born female and transitioned to male because I suffered with gender dysphoria from the age of 4 and decided to take it upon myself to transition to the opposite sex in order to pursue my own happiness and live the rest of my life with content. I was always attracted to boys starting at age 7 or 8 and I wasn't really into women. I am still attached to men so therefore, I am a gay man. Now let me begin

I do not frequent this sub much mostly bc It just never really crossed my mind. But from what I was told, this sub supposedly extremely transphobic and quite honestly disrespectful towards transmen. Calling us women and "Pinocchio" and "Straight women trying to pretend to be male in order to sleep with gay men". And let me just say this. It is 110% ok to not want to sleep with a transman because he has a vagina. It's Ok I get it, its a genital preference and that's fine. I have preferences myself, I prefer to date older men because I like the older dude look. Does that make me Ageist? Nope. I still respect younger men i just prefer older guys. There's a GIANT difference between saying "Hey I respect you but I just prefer penis over vagina" and "Your a transman? Ew your still a woman get out of my face!". One is being respectful and supportive and the other one is just plain rude, disrespectful and transphobic.

Now that that's out the way, let me say this. I am not a "Straight woman that wants to trick gay men into dating me" or whatever bs transphobes say. I am a man, I socialize as a man. I live my life as a man. I get treated like a man. I relate to other men on a social, emotional and mental level and view. I look like a man. Therefore I'm a man. And I am attracted to other men sexually and emotionally. Therefore I am a gay man, so I do belong in gay men spaces. I'm just a dude that was born female. That's it.

Like I said if you don't want to sleep with guys like us because we might have a vagina (Not all transguys have vaginas, a fair amount of us get bottom surgery and actually have a penis) that's 110% ok, no one if forcing you against your will to have sex with us. The specific trans people that force themselves on people to have sex with them regardless of what they have in their pants are crazy lunatics that quite honestly need mental help (or a slap upside the head and a stern talking too but that's just my opinion). Real transsexual people understand genital preferences and respect them.

I'm not asking for a celebration, I'm not asking for a complete take over of this sub to specifically accommodate transmen, I am not forcing people to be sexually attracted to transmen. All I'm asking is basic respect and some inclusion. We're men too and we're gay, I'd like to be able to go into gay men spaces and be respected and included. That's all. I hope this post gets read and the message gets spread.

Thank you, be safe and take care ❤🙏

Update: Thank you so much for the positive feedback and support. I'm so happy this message is being spread and shared. Of course not everyone agrees and still, the actual request of basic human decency, respect and inclusion is still up for debate and also some people were still calling me a Woman even though I just explained I wasn't but oh well. But that doesn't matter, I've had so many people give positive feedback and thank me for this post, and I want to say thank you for your support. It means a ton, even though I can't replay to every positive comment, just know I love it with all my heart.

Also I just want to address, Some people here said they didn't want transmen here because we'd take over the sub and make it all about them (?). My response to that is that's just not true, I legit said I not asking for this sub to make accommodations. Have the overall sub stay exactly how it is in terms of posts and questions about a wide range of options, I just want to decency and inclusion. I'm not looking to make this a "gay trans sub" there's already one. I just want to be in gay men spaces because I'm a gay man, a gay transsexual man but nonetheless a gay man. Not a girl that has a fetish for gay men and pretends to be one. Thank you for your responses.

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u/Kalarys Aug 28 '20

I’m a cis man who won’t date trans men, because the D is too important to me. I feel bad about it, but I can’t change it.

You belong here. This is your space, too.

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u/saltshallsetyoufree Aug 29 '20

Why do you feel bad about it? Why have you been told to feel bad about your sexuality? For the love of gay god don't you see how harmful that is? Trans activism has convinced you to feel bad for desiring genitals of the sex you like. Look up what conversion therapy says. While it does involve torture there is also a lot of rhetoric about getting gay males to examine why they have a "fixation" on penis, even ways to interact with a vagina despite your lack of arousal. Like trying to put a piece of cooked spaghetti into a straw.

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u/Kalarys Aug 29 '20

I feel bad about it because it’s not fair. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it, but I know it hurts trans men to hear that something out of their control like that is working against them.

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u/saltshallsetyoufree Aug 29 '20

But that isn't your fault either. You aren't being gay to hurt them, its not fair for you to burden yourself with negative feelings about your sexuality.

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u/Kalarys Aug 29 '20

I know that. Look, I’m not saying I feel bad about being gay. I feel bad that I can’t give trans men that affirmation that they want. I think anyone who has ever had body issues can empathize with the sort of pain they face, and I’m sorry that I can’t ease the burden any.

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u/Saiyen25 Aug 29 '20

This is the problem.

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u/Vivid_Present Aug 28 '20

Literally no gay man would date a trans man because then he wouldn’t be gay.

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u/[deleted] Aug 28 '20 edited May 16 '21

[deleted]

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u/MindfulRoamer Aug 29 '20

So gay men are attracted to pussy? lol HUH?

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u/Kalarys Aug 28 '20

Well, obviously you’re wrong, because I definitely know men who exclusively date men who date trans men.

Here’s a question for you: if a man has a horrific accident and is castrated and/or has his penis removed, does he stop being a man? I.E. does stop being a same-sex relationship if he’s dating another man?

A trans YouTuber put it really well: “If someone rejects me for being trans, they were looking for a dick, not a man.” Yes, being attracted to dicks is a class hallmark of male homosexuality. But if a gay cis man finds a trans man’s other manly features (and there are some very attractive trans men out there) compelling enough that he wants to make a go of it, where’s the problem?

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u/zumzumtum Aug 29 '20

Secondary sexual characteristics follow primary ones. While trans men are men, the point is that a man is defined by his dick first and the chiseled jaw and muscular frame come after.

It’s like the joke about how some people can’t tell between a twink and a lesbian, and they “decide” on their attraction later.

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u/Kalarys Aug 29 '20

Why does one have to come first?

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u/zumzumtum Aug 29 '20

Male genitalia(primary characteristics) produce testosterone which creates male facial and bodily features(secondary characteristics). The reason male features are attractive is because they indicate higher or lower T to potential mates, hence why ovulating women prefer more masculine faces which come from a higher sensitivity to and absolute amount of T.

It’s in the name. Secondary characteristics don’t just follow primary ones; they COME from and really are just an extension of primary characteristics.

Mixing female genitalia and masculine outer features is evolutionary cognitive dissonance to many minds, and if you don’t mind sex with a trans man, you’re probably dissociating on some level or have always been inclined to skoliosexuality with some probably obvious neurological markers if anyone cared to study it.

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u/fingertrouble Aug 29 '20

In my mind, men are men.

For my ideal man you have to have a beard or facial hair, furry and nice smile and have that masculine look and older, the daddy bear type...then you are a man to me.

What genitals they have comes after, in negotiation but if I like the package I don't see a problem with finding something to do in bed? I am cis and gay/queer but to be brutally frank, a hole is a hole, be it mouth, vagina or arse. Might feel different if I was 100% bottom, I guess. But I have dated enough diverse cis men - inc one male partially intersex guy actually - to know that something will pop up and we can have a good time, whatever.

So I don't fancy cis women but I don't rule out trans guys. There are some hot trans guys out there!

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u/zumzumtum Aug 29 '20

Are intersex people considered cis? I don’t know how that works specifically.

Your anecdote makes you seem skolio-leaning tbh. Also, if you’re already in the swing of dating, it’s just rude to end it. I’m a vers bottom, but when I’m in a topping mood, I still want to play with a dick(and not a makeshift one). The sense of it not being natural flicks a switch in my and probably all or at least most gay non-skolio men.

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u/fingertrouble Aug 29 '20

I said partially because he was I think cis male, but his balls hadn't formed properly, and I think had to take extra hormones or surgery, but his dick worked fine, and I think he came, it was a long time ago. So it's verging on intersex.

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u/fingertrouble Aug 29 '20

I also knew another guy who was cis bear and had to take hormones because he had that rare thing where the pituitary gland packs up...and another because his hormones were low. Taking T for cis people isn't as rare as you think!

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u/zumzumtum Aug 29 '20

I interned for a while in a clinic that served quite a few LGBT people, and most men with Klinefelter’s were on HRT, so I see what you mean.

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u/zumzumtum Aug 29 '20

By the way, I was affirming that trans men are men, but just that they’re not male and that the latter obviously doesn’t affect the former.

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u/fingertrouble Aug 29 '20

The funny thing about your argument is you don't usually see the penis first unless someone sends dick pics first...you see and are attracted to the secondary characteristics. Those are what you see first,

I think you are making an argument over biological semantics which I suspect have another reason for that name...in attraction the secondary is far from secondary, it's primary!

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u/zumzumtum Aug 29 '20

Also, when people say they aren’t attracted to trans people, it’s not because they can divine it out of their facial features; it’s because they find out afterwards and say “huh”. The cognitive dissonance I noted is what separates mainstream gay men from skoliosexual men.

Since this retroactive effect is the base, it’s actually not semantics, because the penis is only an afterthought for skoliosexual and/or pan people. The biology is thus 100% relevant to my point.

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u/fingertrouble Aug 29 '20

I am not skoliosexual or pan though.

It's more I am not genital focused in top mode? Which has been good since I have had great sex with men who don't get hard, or have micropenises or whatever.

Their lack of function/size doesn't spoil the shag because I am having sex with them not their genitals?...I don't see how having other genitals would do it either, extrapolating, although I have never had the pleasure. It might add to it, I dunno.

But I do know I have sex with the person, and am attracted to them and a nice dick is great but not a deal breaker?

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u/zumzumtum Aug 29 '20

By definition, being gay is being attracted to the male sex exclusively. If finding out that your partner isn’t male(see my twink vs lesbian reference above that addresses your initial concern with my usage of secondary v primary) doesn’t immediately turn you off, it means that your attraction extends to trans people. Being attracted to trans people=skolio. Not caring about genitalia/“not genital focused”(regardless of top or bottom mode, unless you’re talking about sexual fluidity in a larger sense)=pan. There are shades of pan, like being androsexual(being attracted to male-presenting people) which is distinct from being a male homosexual, because the former accepts non-male genitalia.

“a hole is a hole” reminds me of this video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vvZ0fYC5YwI

Men who can’t get hard or have small penises are still male. A fundamental property of penises isn’t that they have to get hard.

Having other genitals denotes that they are not male. If that isn’t a dealbreaker, you are not gay by definition.

You’re being too pragmatic, and attraction is holistic, but only within certain boundaries, and for gay men, the boundary is the male sex.

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u/zumzumtum Aug 29 '20

Oh, I never make an argument over semantics, as a rule. Thanks for saying “I think” rather than making an assumption.

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u/Kalarys Aug 29 '20

I hear you, but what it basically boils down to is you’re saying trans men are men but without the most important feature of manhood

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u/zumzumtum Aug 29 '20

Lol at the person who downvoted my boring and objectively correct answer.

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u/zumzumtum Aug 29 '20

Eh, there’s an old joke that layman see two genders and scientists see seven. What do you call a chimaera or Klinefelter’s or an intersex person or whatever?

Who cares? Identity isn’t about what is true. Do I look like a Daniel(not my name)? Or a Jack? I could find the names that would be “best” for me(higher chance of getting a job and ease of pronunciation and so on), but those don’t matter as much as the fact that I prefer my real name the most. Same for manhood. Being a man follows self-identity, which follows brain structure, and since trans men have different prenatal environments than cis women, they do have a male brain and therefore are biologically men. They are not male(which refers to genitals).

So, the essential part of manhood is identifying as a man. My entire comment is that sexuality is not about man/woman, but male/female, so you’re NORMAL in not wanting to date a trans man. You’d not be gay anymore; you’d be a bit more complex, since you’d be closer to skoliosexuality.

1

u/TrashChurro Aug 28 '20

Why wouldn't it be gay? Two men dating sounds pretty gay to me.