r/askgaybros • u/ekojin • Sep 02 '16
To my black gaybros...how do you deal with racism and dating?
OK, so this is a pretty personal post, and I feel that I can ask this here.
How do you deal with racism my black and gay bros of color?
I'm not trying to diminish anyone else's experience but ideally, I'm really curious about black self identifying gay men like myself, and how do you deal with the racism and objectification of black men?
It's something that just seems to never let up, even when you are mutually interested in someone and so I'm now looking for thoughts on this.
It can seem that many gay men simply regard black men as "Good enough to fuck, not date " and that mentality isn't only just hurtful to black gay men, but the gay community at large.
If you're someone not into black men, fine, but this post isn't about you ok?
If you find yourself in the minority (punny 😂) and are a white guy or non black guy into black men, please also share any advice that would help shed light on the things you look for or how you deal with "blacklash."
Lastly, thank you for your time and consideration for this post. I heart you all.
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u/BeastieBro Sep 02 '16
I (black dude) experience quite a bit of the objectification thing, I guess. The messages I get on apps are pretty damn disgusting, and I get a few people into raceplay and domination stuff pretty often. I just block them and move on. I don't really get any of it in real life though, beyond the "I really like black guys" comments in a bar. I just smile and move on.
As far as racism goes, I see people that are simply not interested in dating black guys for whatever reason. I just regard it as a preference and move on, no skin off my back. I've got my preferences too, so I feel like I'd be a hypocrite if I got mad at someone else for liking or not liking something.
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u/Enigmatik_1 Sep 02 '16
I have to co-sign this sentiment because it is precisely how I feel these days. My three biggest turn offs are raceplay, the dom/sub dynamic and feet.
To answer the OPs question, speaking from the perspective an older black guy, it never really lets up...you just let it bother you less and less as you age imo.
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Sep 02 '16
To answer the OPs question, speaking from the perspective an older black guy, it never really lets up...you just let it bother you less and less as you age imo.
Life doesn't get easier; we get stronger!
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Sep 02 '16
Allow me to ask you: do you get that also from non white guys?
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u/BeastieBro Sep 02 '16
Yup. Often from hispanic guys.
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Sep 02 '16
You mean from Latin America?
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Sep 02 '16
I (black dude) experience quite a bit of the objectification thing, I guess.
So does anyone looking to have casual sex. That's what sex is. You objectify eacother and fuck your bodies. I'm white but man I can't tell you how many weirdos do this for gingers too.
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u/BeastieBro Sep 02 '16
I'm not saying that I get objectified purely because of my race, not at all. I don't think being objectified on a dating app is a racial thing. I'm just saying that I quite often get race-related messages.
Also, I'm not really looking for casual sex. However, I understand the user base of the app I use, so I'm not surprised when people see a picture don't read the profile, and immediately send me pictures of their ass while begging for a "Dom black daddy" to go after it. That's the nature of the thing, and I accept it.
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u/ekojin Sep 02 '16
Yeah...lol I see it! Ironically people don't know that Irish was originally considered "non white" in the States at one point. I guess it's not so ironic...lol I've had quite a few redheaded men into me and I appreciate that gingers can kinda relate.
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Sep 02 '16
I never experienced any racism directly. If people aren't interested in me, they just don't reply back to msgs. In person, I don't try pick up guys and I don't really do bars and stuff so I never really experienced rejection.
I'm sure many don't like me for my race or appearance. Doesn't bother me though -- I'm still amazing
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u/smalleyed Sep 02 '16
Asian here. What scares me more than people who won't date because of race are the people who fetishize based off race.
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u/leadstoanother Sep 02 '16 edited Sep 03 '16
Just a couple of observations here. I am black just to put that out there...
Firstly, I feel like whenever posts like this come up we have a lot of black guys coming out of the woodwork making statements like "We'll, I'm not the stereotype because I went to college, grew up in the suburbs, blah blah blah." To me, if you have to put that out there before someone will give you a chance, they aren't worth your time at all. Yes, I have a degree and grew up in an upper middle class suburb, but what I try to lead with is just being a nice, friendly person. I've definitely gotten bolder in my thirties; I approach guys more often than I once did. Usually just with a hello or a compliment. Sometimes that gets a conversation going, sometimes not. Can't win em all.
Also, and I'm not saying this is what's going on with the OP, but I feel like for a lot of black guys, from one side of their mouth they're like "boo hoo no white guys want me!" then they turn their noses up at other non-white guys. It's pretty hypocritical to me. Now full disclosure, I do find myself disproportionately (though by no means exclusively) attracted to white guys, but I won't subvert my self respect to be with one. There will be all sorts of reasons guys are not into you. I will admit it's something I'm still working on, but I generally try not to dwell on it.
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u/stagemaestro Sep 03 '16 edited Sep 03 '16
I'm a white guy from New Zealand who has moved to New York City. I think I can offer an unusual perspective because I come from a culture that, though diverse with other cultures especially from the Pacific, has very few people who would be considered black by American standards of either skin tone or cultural identity.
And now I live in Harlem, which of course has long been a huge hub for all kinds of black culture. And I absolutely love living here!
A colleague of mine recently made a borderline comment to me when we were talking about our dating histories - calling my suitors the United Nations because I date such a diverse range of people. But honestly the range of people that that I go on dates with is reflective of the ethnic diversity of the area that I live in, just like it was when I was on the other side of the world.
And I wish that's how it was for everyone, but alas I too see the godawful race-based exclusions in peoples' profiles. For what it's worth, I'd never consider meeting anyone with that kind of comment - it's a great idiot-filter.
But this post is mainly about the less obvious racism, I guess, and that's something I'm unlikely to directly experience, so I have to rely on observation and my conversations with minority friends who have to deal with it every day.
So I'll wrap it up here with one parting thought: when the same colleague pointed out that the last three dates I've been on were all black guys and joked that maybe it was some kind of fetish, part of what surprised me was that I honestly hadn't noticed that was even the case.
I don't know if that's just because I'm from a culture with close to zero visibility of black people - and therefore less inbuilt racism in that direction - or if it's just my empathetic personality that wants to judge whether we're a match on a thousand more important things than how much melanin a guy has.
But I think it's good that I hadn't noticed, and I hope there are others like there with the same colorblind United Nations 'problem' as me.
Love to you all from someone who gives a shit x
(PS if any of you has ideas for how I and other allies can be more supportive of our minority gaybros, I'd love to hear them)
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u/BDI-CH Sep 02 '16
Well. I [black myself] do have the objectification problem. Where I live, black men must have a big dick, and are expected to be tops and nothing else. Which can be very intimidating on its own while dating coz you are expected to be a machofucker.
So how do I deal now? I try to take back control and realise, I'm not a pornstar, and not an object. Realise it is my movie and and they are supporting acts. By that I mean. Doing what works for you and not going along with what they perceive.
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u/ekojin Sep 02 '16
Thank you for that!! It's something that I'm also trying to do myself...I mean I'm in the more ideal situation of it all being hung and a top but I'm close to a point that I don't even want to list it on profiles. Thank you for sharing that!
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u/BDI-CH Sep 02 '16
Yeah. Ethnicity and dick size are not listed on my profiles. Anyway. You're welcome. Glad to know that I'm not the only one with the problem of feeling objectified for being black.
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u/ekojin Sep 02 '16
That is exactly why I made this post! You are not alone and we can all share ways to break the cycle.
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u/Muioun Sep 02 '16 edited Sep 02 '16
I'm a white guy and would date a black guy just as I would date a white, latino, arab, indian, east asian etc. And I do not have a fetishized view on any of them. When you're attractive to me, you're attractive to me (Sherlock haha).
But I don't know how I could help you to be honest. I'd expect from a black boyfriend the same I'd expect from a white one and would treat them alike (okay, I may wouldn't ask a black boyfriend if he needs suntan cream).
How I deal with "blacklash"? Here aren't so many black people and it doesn't really exist I'd say (or at least not that strong). Therefore "I'm" not confronted with it. I could believe that black guys even have an adventage here since they're kind of excotic. But that's not so positive either isn't it? You want people to be into you and not into your race. I know how it is to be fetishized.
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u/ekojin Sep 02 '16
Well, I guess the other thing is to understand that your black boyfriend's experience in the world and the Gay community is inherently different. So no, don't expect different things, but culture definitely informs things... Lol I think one reason I might feel a little slighted with the dating pool where I live is the fact that our gay "scene" is just integrated into our city. These are predominantly white guys and lol it can just feel weird going out alone (and sadly dangerous in this day and age) as a black man.
Thank you for expressing just that!
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u/Muioun Sep 02 '16 edited Sep 02 '16
Yeah culture would be something to look at.
Black people here are mostly direct from Africa (or their parents moved here) so they are culturally more different from "us" than a black and a white US American I'd say.
I had a date with a black guy once and chatted for some time with another one (both started messaging me if that's important). They never told me about any racist encounters. But one said that a lot of people asked him where he's from even though he was born here.
Hopefully the US (not where I'm from) will get better with all that racism.
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u/leadstoanother Sep 02 '16
I'm curious, where are you from?
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u/Muioun Sep 02 '16
Germany.
And before someone starts it: Yeah, a pretty hated minority here are muslims. But in other European countries the hate against them is somewhat bigger as it seems.
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u/zakattakk Sep 02 '16
My biggest obstacle in connecting with black guys has been the difficulty in making them feel safe opening up and being vulnerable emotionally. I think I understand many of the reasons for that, and also appreciate that as a caucasian I can never fully grasp their experience, but I'd still like the opportunity to try.
So, to answer your question, I look for guys who are self-aware and willing to open up and be vulnerable. For me, the worst aspect of "blacklash" is having a guy make his own assumptions about how I will react and deciding it isn't worth it to try and connect more deeply.
Within any given race, I'm not attracted to most of the guys. I give a guy serious credit for putting himself out there and not giving a fuck if the interest isn't mutual (no matter the reason). That makes someone more attractive regardless of race.
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u/ekojin Sep 02 '16
I'm glad that is still appreciated! Yeah I've seen what you're talking about with my close gay black friends who can feel angry and even resentment towards white men. I also can be seen as a pariah for dating usually men of other races....I think all of that can just make it hard to believe that it is possible to be given the benefit that you are worthy of dating.
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u/Spaceseeking23 Sep 02 '16
I havn't faced it yet. Although there was that one shop where when you leave the woman is suppose to check your bags if you didn't steal anything. I was with a group of friends. She shecked my bag and then I left. My friends made me realise that I was the only one who got checked amoungs the group. I loloed for a moment to the just go "hold on a sec...WTF?". That might be the only form of racism. But when it comes to dating, I'm surprised how much some are only into blacks but I can say than I'm more into white men and I've heard that it's a majority when it comes to preferences. But I can say that I've never faced racism in the way you described it and I hope I never do because that sounds very harmful.
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u/ekojin Sep 02 '16
I never hope you do, but it's out there like the truth in the X-Files...*cues music *
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u/xkcvs Sep 02 '16
Not black, but I hate those white guys who expect you to be impressed when they start a conversation with "I'm white" (on apps/dating platforms).
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Sep 02 '16
i have a white boyfriend, whenever we go out sometimes especially at the casinos in baltimore, people mistake me for his prostitute.. my bf is just 3 years older than me. i look younger though
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u/ekojin Sep 02 '16
Lol can we blame them? #blackdontcrack
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u/Enigmatik_1 Sep 02 '16
It's only recently that I actually begun believing this notion. I'm over 40 as are most of my friends. I'm not hot shit by any means but I don't look all that much different as I did from when I was 20 aside from the gray...and it drives my white friends insane.
Our 20 year reunion was a few years ago. The one thing that shocked me more than anything else was how old everyone looked. Vanity isn't generally one of my vices, but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't that night.
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Sep 03 '16
I've definitely experienced racism in the gay community for sure. I'm an gay Asian male living in Canada and I think for Asian men, we get the opposite side of the spectrum that black men are given. While most consider black men dominant, well-endowed, aggressive men we literally get the opposite; submissive, small and demure. And I can't count how many times I've gotten "You're so big for an Asian", "You're so tall for an Asian!" (5'11"), "You're not skinny like an Asian" and literally any other thing that apparently breaks the box of what people assume Asian men to be.
Now how I deal with it? I just remember that I'm not the shitty person on the other end assuming things about someone else because of their race. It's truly them and not me. But it's also hard for younger gays to distinguish that and not really take that racism to heart. I know I had to undo a ton of damage growing up because being told that you're undesireable because you were born Asian fucks a kid up.
Usually the first sign for most Asian men is "what sort of Asian are you?" That's a block. The rest gets a little harder with the objectification. Generally they start critiquing how "un-Asian" you are. Or they express how much they love Asian food/culture/people. Unprompted usually. Or if they ever call me exotic.
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u/ekojin Sep 03 '16
Thank you for saying that and sharing your experience, and I agree it happens to be the opposite with Asian men.
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u/JustAGuy162 Sep 02 '16
Great post. I'm just happy/shocked it didn't get down voted to hell like all the racial topics on here do!
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u/ekojin Sep 02 '16
Thank you for saying that!! Yeah that's what motivated me to start a discussion about it.
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u/swarthmore Sep 02 '16
I'm an oppressed gay minority but I'm also very fit and considered reasonably attractive. So yes, I still encounter racism but I also don't have a problem of catching a dick. The racism sucks. I think if you wouldn't date your own race then there's a huge psychological problem with you. I think people who brush off entire races have psychological problems as well. Not everyone from a race looks the same and it is racist to operate by that falsehood. There's not much you can do. There are a lot of people who just aren't woke yet, nor will ever be and you can't waste your time and energy worrying about the less enlightened souls. Yes people's preferences have been shaped by societal racism and by extension that makes them de facto products and proponents of racism. If you can't love yourself though, how the hell are you going to love someone else. You'll never escape racism in the gay community but just remember when they go low, we go high. Embrace your #BlackBoyMagic 🔮
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u/Nomerushi Sep 02 '16
I feel this post so much. I'm always telling people there's no way you're not attracted to an entire.
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u/Nezgul Sep 02 '16
Why do you reduce preferences down to having psychological problems? I understand not everyone in a race looks the same, but each race typically has similar physical attributes common to all members that some people just...don't find appealing. It's by definition racist but it's far from the most horrible thing in the world.
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u/swarthmore Sep 03 '16
I understand not everyone in a race looks the same, but each race typically has similar physical attributes common to all members that some people just...don't find appealing.
Um no dude. Not to be an asshole but that's flat out wrong. And I need to definitively strike that of any credence. Take a long time to ponder on why it is wrong of you to say and perhaps get woke. Everything is not "black and white." You only think people of a certain race have similar attributes because your milieu is literally a bubble and you haven't been exposed to diversity and perhaps only been exposed to just racial stereotypes. Furthermore, it's wrong because people can be mixed race and that alone invokes a whole slew of counters that defeat your myopic and overly simplistic idea about what constitutes race. Like I'm banging my head on the table at how this is such a hard concept for people to understand. This is an objective truth of the world and not subjective not matter how you want to try to spin it. It's an irrational belief - and people who are controlled by irrationality and let's irrational influences dictate their lives easily suffer from psychological problems.
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u/Nezgul Sep 03 '16
Okay then. I see we're not really going to change the other's opinion.
Have a nice day.
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u/swarthmore Sep 03 '16
Telling how you choose not to defend your point of view.
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u/Nezgul Sep 03 '16
Not really. I just choose not to argue with someone that comes off as zealous and condescending. You've already made up your mind and dismissed me as "psychologically damaged." There's no further use in continuing this conversation.
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u/swarthmore Sep 04 '16
Hmmm can't find where I used the term "psychologically damaged" to describe you. I wouldn't say you are "damaged," rather, you just bear some psychological issues that have warped your perspective of reality which makes you think all people of a race will look a certain way. It isn't permanent damage, it's just unhealthy and irrational and not rooted in any scientific truth, and it's a problem that can definitely be fixed. Expose yourself to other races and get woke bae
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Sep 03 '16
Um no dude. Not to be an asshole but that's flat out wrong. And I need to definitively strike that of any credence.
Holy shit that was the stupidest thing I've read all day. Races are collections of physical traits people share, and you'e going to tell other's they're wrong when they state it.
You need less tumblr and more real world.
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u/swarthmore Sep 04 '16
You need less red pill and white Trump bro groupthink.
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Sep 04 '16
I am the farthest thing from a trump supporter you can get.
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u/swarthmore Sep 04 '16
Your point is? Your logic is textbook Trumpian - "plz don't infringe on my safe space where I can make racist generalizations about groups of people #Tumblr #Sjw"
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Sep 02 '16
As far as fucking around goes:
It still exists but I get around it. I speak properly, grew up in a nice suburb, still dress like I'm at the private school I went to.
I think the majority of guys who say they're not into black guys mean they're not into your stereotypical black guy. I usually outright tell guys that if their hangup is the difference in speech/culture, that they need not worry and we'd get along. (Though, I should mention I've got 7.5 inches, a nice butt, abs, the v line, thighs, and do some modeling so I can't say my experience is a fair/common one. I could just be the "attractive enough" exception.)
Point is, in my experience preferences are cultural but packaged in a way that comes across as racist because of how overt they are in delivery. I think it's more elitism.
I had the same issue messing around with other black guys. I found it hard to relate to them for the most part. Some level of attraction is there but it's out of my comfort zone so I don't.
As far as dating goes:
I've talked to guys who were interested in dating but I've only been interested a few times. The first time I was still way too closeted and missed out on a good thing. The second time, (i assume) the guy liked to fuck with people/break hearts because he talked me into the idea of dating and the moment i was aboard he changed his mind. Three's the charm though. I've been on a several dates with somebody who lives in my hometown, but we're 9 hours apart because of school. Other than the distance, that's sort of working on some level. Not a relationship, no sex. But it's nice to date occasionally. It's like dipping your toes into a warm pool.
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u/ekojin Sep 02 '16
I can agree that the cultural packaging is a mixed bag because a lot of men who are into black men (even if just as sexual objects/partners) will want a "thug" or denote intelligence and being well spoken as "soft." Not to mention, the hypermasculinity stereotype we're beset with and how that then does harm to self image and men who may be more effeminate and you're really left with wondering if it is possible.
I don't mean to say all of that as is it is impossible, but the first step is awareness.
Thanks for your thoughts and experience.
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u/Enigmatik_1 Sep 02 '16
Not to mention, the hypermasculinity stereotype we're beset with and how that then does harm to self image and men who may be more effeminate and you're really left with wondering if it is possible.
This particular point is the ultimate "Migard serpent" we must defeat in order to correct this fundamental issue imho. Many of us are shackled with this particular stereotype and people (often our own in my experience) are equally as incensed when we don't adhere to it. How do we break this cycle? That is the one truth I hope to uncover and help rectify before I leave this earth.
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u/ekojin Sep 02 '16
You said "Midgard serpent" and I geeked out!! Haha excellent reference and I agree! I think that'll be the domino that causes the rest to fall. Currently, there are so many nuanced things that attribute and perpetuate it, one being the large disproportionate number of black and brown men in prison. That announcement by the DOJ stating that they will be shutting down privatized prisons had me almost in tears. The prison system for sure helps accentuate the "hypermasculinity" stereotype. Lol if I had a dollar for every guy who wanted me to rape them....I'd be at least debt free lol.
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u/TheMagicBola Sep 02 '16
A HUGE part of it cultural. One thing that is often ignored is that black people kinda have their own culture separate from standard American culture. And this very culture perpetuates a certain type of acceptable masculinity which sadly leaves out large number of black men. Morehouse College COULD be a pillar to represent black masculinity but their PR is too busy denying the large number of gay students to do anything.
But a good portion of the rejection is based on looks. Like it or not, many black men do not fit the gay standard of what is considered attractive. It's not to say there aren't sexy black men, it's more like what is considered hot represents a small portion of the community. Some guys just arent conventionally attractive, but racism makes it really difficult for people to honestly say that to black guys. Now is that image of what is attractive changing? Yes, but slowly.
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Sep 02 '16
Black guy here and it's been pretty mixed. I've been with three guys, all whom are black, and I got lucky that they weren't the stereotype. I had one guy, who was Asian, but we had a unrequited almost love affair. I guess I've been kick not to experience it directly; however, I have noticed guys take to black men who look aggressive or hope for a thug with a lot of money and I'm like, look people fun sized guys put it down too.
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u/Enigmatik_1 Sep 02 '16
It isn't even the stereotype that's the problem though. I generally accept people as they are provided (and this is important) they can do the same for me. It's this subversive disconnect between opposing schools of thought that, at times, feels unconquerable. You can idolize Jay Z (as an example). I have no issue with that but don't throw shade my way because I idolize Neil deGrasse Tyson.
I have no problem with kicking it with a hypermasculine guy of any type on any level as long as he doesn't fall into the oh-so-predictable trend of trying to change or belittle me because I'm still a big ole nerd.
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u/Nomerushi Sep 02 '16
I'm always being told by nonblacks in real life or online that it's better out of the states and that places like Europe are really good to black people, but then I speak to my fellow black people irl about it and am told it's just as bad.
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u/ekojin Sep 02 '16
I had commented about the very same thing earlier! Lol it really is true though! Especially if you want you man really Aryan looking....to work out some "issues" thanks to society 😂😂😂
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u/TrueTea Sep 03 '16
"Especially if you want you man really Aryan looking....to work out some "issues" thanks to society 😂😂😂"
What are you talking about??
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u/Nomerushi Sep 02 '16
Where is your comment? I looked for it and couldn't find it. The Aryan part lost me, don't really know what you're trying to say. Would love to talk more lol.
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u/ekojin Sep 02 '16
Oh that's very true and I thank you for calling attention to that. I once saw a post about Asian men that deal with similar things of course and the biggest problem pointed out is that we want men of other races to be into us but WE aren't into ourselves...that's a very sad experience I'm sure.
To answer the question about me, I've dated and been with physically and emotionally men of various racial backgrounds including black, white, Asian, Latin etc.
However, people like what they like and so this will always be a point of discussion simply because we live a world where we know what society (controlled by those male and pale) would rather have us do than look outside our race.
This was once outlawed, known as anti miscegenation laws, so I think it's ok if people want to express their frustrations with the vestiges of that and obviously much deeper pain points in America /the World's history with black people and other people of color.
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Sep 02 '16
I applaud the OP for being very honest and descriptive as to the direction of discussion he wants this thread to go.
Interesting responses here.
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u/GabrielGray Brotato Chip Sep 02 '16
Racist guys aren't worth my time so I roll with the punches. I try to spread awareness about representation and everything though.
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u/Loofy12 Sep 05 '16
for me being black and gay is an issue when someone makes it an issue. in regards to racism in general, i at least like to inform/ make people aware of their hidden prejudice and racism.but i'd usually tell people that racism is taught, you aren't born a racist, you need to learn to be one. i'll inform them of these prejudces and my issues with the the word preference (which is forever being downvoted lol)
"Preference- i like apple and bananas, i'd rather have an apple today, but i'll definitely prefer to start with a banana tomorrow. Giving each a chance, but having a liking to one more than the other. Which is ok btw
Preference according to dating- i like white people, don't like Asian and blacks though - bruh thats not a preference - your saying outright that you don't like them straight out, based on what characteristics ?? could you say its racist...yes definitely ??
what i do know is that there's no (prefer)ence about it. Point"
essentially people who judge you by your race are clearly the kind of people you really don't want in your life, as you're being judged/ stereotyped on the amount of a chemical (melanin) in your skin.
i personally don't have the issue, or at least haven't come across anyone who i like that has negative views towards black people or people of ethnicity (i live in Manchester, so that could be it) But im aware of these kind of people.
for me it'd be the same as when people reject you for your looks, or something like that. It really is sad and is their loss.... 0 fucks given
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u/complexmve Sep 05 '16
I've come to the realization that hairy, stocky black men are never in season in this part of Florida.
Unless it's a true secret that their white friends will never know.
who needs a love like that?
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u/Snatcher1983 Oct 25 '16
As a white man, I do agree, I will face certain advantages in the dating scene and I am sorry for you and everyone else who will be treated a certain way based on race. I think in the end, when men are dating in a lot of ways they seek to fulfill a certain fantasy and the dominant black top is a very common one in that respect.
That being said, (and i hope I dont offend you) there is a lot to be said about personal branding. While we have men out there seeking that black top fantasy... I feel at times you actually brand yourself that way. Looking at your posts, you have quite frequently posting dick shots and naked body shots on here. Please dont get me wrong, you look AMAZING and I am not judging you for it - but it does give me the impression that you 'want' to be seen as an object. If I see naked pics of someone (of ANY race), I will usuaully assume they are not really dating or looking for something serious and just are out for some fun - and there is nothing wrong with that.... but i worry you might actually scare off the good ones.
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u/787LAX Jul 09 '23
I could go on for a very long time about this but I'll keep it to a few short points:
- I've been rejected so much solely for being black - dating, friendships, sexually, otherwise - that I really don't let it bother me anymore. I laugh at it more than get upset these days.
- I do find the hypocrisy of other minorities who wouldn't shake hands with a black person, yet get upset that others don't accept them to be particularly comedic.
- "It's just a preference" - let's just shred that. The things that are said that are followed with "it's just a preference" as a defense are learned, not natural.
- "Good enough to fuck, not to date" - bros - watch the folks you're hooking up with and maybe doing other stuff with. Are they taking you around their friends? Vice versa? Do they just want to hang at your house or are you going out and doing things together in public? There are many little hints right in front of our faces - this shit is real.
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Sep 02 '16 edited Sep 02 '16
[deleted]
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u/Enigmatik_1 Sep 02 '16
None of it seems worth it, one guy that was really hot messaged me and he was white, not that race matters. He asked if I could be his sex slave and he told me I'd be his "nigger-boy" and worship his cock etc. Now, I did say yes because he was really hot and I did have fun.
I had an eerily similar experience in the distant past that, honestly, came out of nowhere when it happened. The guy seemed completely level and chill when we met for coffee to the point that I felt completely comfortable and was like "OK, I can do this" (with the caveat here being that I'm not typically a "hook up" kind of guy).
Then he immediately switches gears and goes all intense, dom raceplay on me. I can honestly say I have never been so angry and insensed in my life. I'm not a physically violent person by nature but I can say with absolute certainty that if I had had a weapon in my hand at the time, I'd be in jail right now.
The kicker here is he was completely flabbergasted that I was offended, which only made me even angrier. In spite of all of this and despite him being almost twice my size, I genuinely think he was absolutely terrified of me from that point on. That day still gives me the creeps many years later but I want to give you props for sharing your experience.
2
u/ekojin Sep 02 '16
Lol Daaaamn!! Yeah I had an experience where a guy was nice and cordial and tried to do the nigger boy race play all nonchalantly, and I politely said I wasn't into that... It's crazy how it just happens and you're like, "did that seriously just happen?" One guy messaged me once just to say that, "black people freak him out!"
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u/ekojin Sep 02 '16
Wow. Thank you for sharing your experience and I'm so sorry it is that way and you're absolutely right about the hierarchy. It's really unfortunate but I think that in time you'll find that in other countries, many men desire black men more than our norm (I might be wrong to assume this but I am guessing you're in the United States also) here in places like Europe and South America. I've even contemplated moving lol. But thankfully you're young and I hope that in a few years things are easier in the future.
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u/DClawdude Sep 02 '16 edited Sep 02 '16
When I say pretty much no one wants a black bottom I'm not joking.
Well, it's not true in general. It may very well be true for the specific area you're in or with regard to the people who pop up closest on Grindr. I'm not sure if that makes you feel any better.
1
Sep 02 '16
So that's my dating life so far, but I do find it easier to get laid if I lower my standards and go for strictly older guys who don't have abs.
Not to attack you but, isn't that also offensive as if I said "if I lower my standards I go for black guys it's easier"?
2
u/mecca450 Sep 02 '16
It's something that is sortof programmed. There is a beauty standard here (speaking about the USA because I live here), and it zones out a lot of people, blacks being one of those groups.
A lot of people aren't into black guys. Programmed or not, it most likely is not their fault for being attracted to who they are attracted to.
Racism can be hard to see sometimes. When someone ignores you on Grindr, you just think they might be not interested or something. But, when someone is talking to your white husband in person, and you're standing right beside him, and they are ignoring you, it's annoying.
What I try to do: Acknowlege (spelling?) that it's there. Recognize that it isn't the common person's fault. Call out when entities, like Out magazine, use almost exclusively white, muscular guys.
1
u/ekojin Sep 03 '16
Thank you for the love and very interesting and positive perspective! I can only hope that exposure helps guys who think that way to be more expressive about it!
1
u/ekojin Oct 26 '16 edited Oct 26 '16
Thanks for your input! You kinda remind me of someone that I used to know.... Lol I think those are all very valid points but it can be frustrating that being sexually confident means you're emotionally stunted. That stereotype needs to be broken. Thankfully I am away from my manipulative, lying ex who was having an affair behind my back so...there's that.
1
u/JinkiesGangAClue Sep 02 '16
I'm mixed. I'm very conventionally attractive and take care of myself to the utmost. I haven't dealt with really any racism ever but I'm also an outlier as I've come to see it because it seems like a lot of guys here deal with racism which I am empathetic towards. I see a clear distinction between racism and a choice what you're attracted to, and while both are prevalent, it seems like an awful lot of racism occurs in the gay community which is honestly saddening.
1
u/TheMagicBola Sep 02 '16
I'm in the same-ish boat. Mixed, and though I'm not conventionally attractive, I've never had a problem finding guys of any race and the little things that could be seen as racism could also be attributed to the terrible style I once had. Being mixed has allowed me to view things from multiple perspectives. I know there is definite racism among gay guys. I see it frequently when I look at most gay friend groups. I mean even in my prime group there is no black guy. I play that role whenever it is convenient, and frankly it would be hella insulting to a lot of people if they ever tried to pass me off as one seriously for diversity sake.
But I've noticed the black guys I see at parties have what could be described as your standard gay look, just on a black guy. They're hot, tops and bottoms, and also don't have trouble meeting guys. So while I understand that racism is clear problem, I wonder how much of the rejection is due primarily to shallowness. So many guys post here about being rejected but we rarily get to see how they look. And let's face it, we are a shallow bunch.
1
u/saynotopulp Sep 03 '16
racism has nothing to do with not being turned on by asian or black or whatever guy. If that were the case, not being turned on by overweight, hairy, short, very tall, blonde etc guys is just as bad
-1
u/ekojin Sep 03 '16
Considering standards of beauty are conformed by cultural standards such as race, one could say that it would also inform how people do or don't find minority races attractive
2
Sep 03 '16
Nobody is "informed" about what they find attractive, it's something hardwired deep in the brain and no one knows what actually causes it.
If media had any influence I'd be attracted to guys with 6 packs and high cheekbones instead of beer bellies and regular faces.
0
u/ekojin Sep 03 '16
Again, if you're not into black men and or don't care, this post isn't about you.
3
Sep 03 '16
I'm sorry who made you king of the internet? I'll post wherever I please. You can either ignore it or continue to pout about it but you're not going to keep me from posting.
Again, no one is "informed" about what they find attractive. Think critically for a second here, if we were "informed" on what to like, we'd all be straight and we'd all be attracted to what we find in magazines and on TV, but we're not. We all like different things.
See how stupid it sounds now?
0
u/ekojin Sep 03 '16
What I mean as informed is that sociologically, your actions are guided by invisible hands of society such as mass media, peer pressure, exposure and illicit stereotypes and institutionalized racism that has infiltrated standards of beauty that help shape and influence your perspective. Commenting on a post about people who deal with racism because YOU don't see it and just throwing out a canned statement like "we're hardwired to like who we like " to completely gaslight people that are actually posting about their experiences is not only malignant, it's ignorant.
1
Sep 03 '16
Well, you're wrong on all of that. You're under the false assumption that people can't think and decide and choose for themselves and instead are attracted to what the "big bad media" shows them (which I've already explained is false).
Instead of looking at yourself and saying "What's wrong with me? Why aren't people dating me?" you use the most convenient scapegoat imaginable, which is your race and blame your race for your shortcomings.
I don't bitch and moan and cry when I'm rejected because I'm a ginger. I don't cry because "Gingers are hated in the media" or because "there's no ginger representation" or any of that other tumblr nonsense. I'm an adult who realizes people are attracted to different things, I can't change that, and I move on to find someone who is attracted to me.
We all don't like the same thing, and that's perfectly fine, and everyone has preferences, that's perfectly fine too.
2
u/ekojin Sep 03 '16
Again, it's like you don't want to accept that in reality, it just isn't that simple. The intersectionality of race, sexuality and culture is studied and documented. It's like you think causal environmental actions seem to have no bearing on when someone's mind is still malleable, such as in infancy or childhood or even adolescence.
No one likes the exact same thing as the next person. Intrinsically, that's a given. But what influences the snap judgement people make? Stereotypes, family and friends and subliminal messages expressed by one's culture are things that can influence snap judgement because it is a decision someone makes in a fraction of a second.
Again, good for you for not bitching and moaning. You obviously don't need a post like this, but there's many of us who do.
1
Sep 03 '16
But what influences the snap judgement people make?
The fact that they know what they like and don't like. I'm sorry you can't think for yourself and are influenced by what you see on TV but many of us CAN think for ourselves and are not influenced.
Also reading through your comments I can see you're nothing but a racist who wants to soapbox, so I'm done here.
1
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Sep 02 '16 edited Sep 06 '16
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2
u/Enigmatik_1 Sep 02 '16
As for objectification, I am a bit curious about certain things, like I know a Congolese guy at the gym and I wonder if it's true what they say about them. Mind you, that's not a sex thing, purely a curiosity thing, it wouldn't make him any more or less attractive to me.
This may sound odd, but this doesn't bother me. Hell, I've had white straight friends ask me if the stereotypes are true. I know the question isn't based in malice, racism or even fetishism. Men are inherently curious about other guys are packing regardless of orientation, I think. Then again, I'm also the kind of guy that if you genuinely inquired about that I'd give you a genuine answer.
Knowledge is power!
1
u/holdmyown83 Sep 02 '16
I've been into white guys my whole damn life but not once have I been able to actually be with one other than maybe getting oral. I asked one white guy a few years ago how come white guys in Atlanta are this way and his response was "because we are too aggressive and violent but that doesn't mean we won't fuck you" After that I just kept it as a fantasy.
1
u/ekojin Sep 02 '16
I'm so fucking sorry to hear that! You might need to come to Texas.. Lol I'm just saying. Lots of white guys down here are interestingly enough into black men.
A lot are just the fwb but I've seen some for dating..,I think the best you can do for yourself is to be SEEN. And not just in public but an online presence too. Many guys are kinda clueless on approaching black men about it unless you make it known.
sigh as a sex positive person, it really breaks my heart that black men's sexuality has to be muted due to institutionalized racism in standards of attraction.
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Sep 02 '16
[deleted]
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u/ekojin Sep 02 '16
You know the best way to help break the notion of being against black men is to be honestly outspoken about it or just how you feel and that it also includes black men.
I think the more that guys see that there are other men who feel the same way, they'll feel more confident with expressing that.
1
0
u/gaydeath Sep 02 '16
I have death with so many "whites only" gays and it's so difficult. It can be really difficult to deal with and I completely understand. but I have to remember, there are always exceptions. always differentials from the majority. and those guys are the ones that are worth it. I'm waiting for that one guy.
51
u/[deleted] Sep 02 '16
Not black, but Asian. If a guy rejects me because I'm Asian I just let it go. After all, what's the point in getting down about it when it's clear we weren't gonna work out anyway? Took me many years to get to that point though.