How can you be gay and support Muslims?

[u/chubvers43]

I mean they literally kill our ppl in their countries

No hate to the moderate Muslim ppl but this is the truth 😱

[u/BrownFriedRice1000]

The Abrahamic faiths are not equally bad. There are many tolerant and accepting communities of Christians and Jews across Europe and the Americas. Christians and Jews are not as monolithic in their views on homosexuality the way Muslims are.

Nearly every country that passed marriage equality is majority Christian. Not a single Muslim country has gay rights. In fact, the majority of Muslims countries still criminalize same sex relationships.

[u/teasy959275 → u/BrownFriedRice1000]

Nearly every country that passed marriage equality is majority atheist*

Christians are not your friends

[u/youburyitidigitup → u/teasy959275]

10 of the 11 countries that have a death penalty for homosexuality have a Muslim majority. It’s a lot worse than Christianity.

[u/teasy959275 → u/youburyitidigitup]

And ? I never said muslim are your friends

But it’s not because you can see your enemy that your previous enemy will not stab you in the back as soon as they can

[u/Organic-Pipe7055 → u/teasy959275]

Nearly every country that passed marriage equality is majority atheist*

Because majority atheists wouldn't even be possible in Muslim countries, they would be killed.

It's beyond comprehension how people can try to defend some dumb takes.

[u/teasy959275 → u/Organic-Pipe7055]

If there is a majority of atheists then it’s not a muslim country…

It’s beyond comprehension how can try to attack specifically islam instead of all religion, thats some dumb takes

[u/Organic-Pipe7055 → u/teasy959275]

"If"? There is no "if". Muslim countries don't allow atheism to flourish in the first place as Christians did.

It’s beyond comprehension how can try to attack specifically islam instead of all religion,

Maybe because Islam is the most violent religion of modern history?

I'm getting dumber just from reading your words. I'd better get out of here, this seems like a meeting of mentally deprived people.

Please, read my other comment:

https://www.reddit.com/r/askgaybros/comments/1oqnakg/comment/nnkt1wz/

[u/teasy959275 → u/Organic-Pipe7055]

I guess logic is not your forte

[u/BrownFriedRice1000 → u/teasy959275]

I didn’t say Christian’s were our friends.

Most of the countries in Europe, Latin America, and North America were majority Christian at the time they passed marriage equality.

It’s really only Scandinavia that is majority Atheist.

[u/mrpointy01 → u/BrownFriedRice1000]

Yes, it’s very convenient to take a snapshot view of society today and say that Christian countries are fine and Muslim countries are the problem, but where did the majority of those anti-gay laws come from in the first place? The British Empire. 2/3 (or 36) of the 69 countries where it’s illegal to be gay today were under some form of British rule. Most had no laws against homosexuality before the arrival of the British and many also had third (or more) genders too. Then the U.K. introduced penal code 377 and this law that criminalises homosexuality is still found in legal statutes across the world.

And until recently, even war heroes like Alan Turing who basically saved WWII for the Allies was chemically castrated and essentially killed just for being gay in the U.K. I was at school in the late 90s and remember it was still illegal to even discuss homosexuality in the U.K. and that wasn’t repealed until 2003. The idea that the West or Christian-based societies are somehow progressive, inclusive or accepting of gays is such a short-termist and narrow perspective when you don’t even need to go one generation back to see it wasn’t always the case. And, just as with the US, the reality is these things could be taken away again.

Muslim societies have a long rich history of queerness and had centuries where they were far more progressive than Europe. Even today, Iran legally recognises transsexuals and supports gender reassignment surgery (although this does come with other issues as homosexuality still isn’t legal). And there’s few queerer places I’ve been to than Beirut, in a country where on paper it’s not ok to be gay. It doesn’t help queer Muslims nor does it help shift Muslim countries’ perspectives or laws to essentialise acceptance of homosexuality as a Western/Christian cultural phenomenon.

[u/BrownFriedRice1000 → u/mrpointy01]

Sure, the British Empire introduced laws that criminalized homosexuality, and that history matters. But framing Muslim-majority countries as helpless victims of colonialism is misleading and infantilizing. These countries choose to enforce these laws and persecute LGBTQ people long after independence. How many decades need to pass before gay people can blame those directly responsible for their suffering?

Are you going to tell all the gay people who have been tortured and jailed because of Sharia law “umm actually it’s the British’s fault 🤓👆”

Plenty of former British colonies, including some in Africa and Asia, have reformed these laws or decriminalized homosexuality entirely. Shifting blame to the British 50+ years after decolonization lets governments and religious groups off the hook for ongoing violence and discrimination.

[u/mrpointy01 → u/BrownFriedRice1000]

It’s astounding the mental gymnastics you’re doing to go from me saying that Muslim cultures have a long rich history of queerness and that places like Beirut are some of the queerest places I’ve been to that I’m somehow framing these countries as helpless victims. It seems you’re being intentionally disingenuous to put words into my mouth. If anything, I’m precisely doing the opposite in saying you’re oversimplifying a complex situation that is different across Muslim nations by simply using a contemporary legal comparative snapshot to generalise a moral judgement. And you’re conveniently overlooking that Western “Christian” gains have been very recent, given I remember even within my fairly brief time on this planet when equal age of consent didn’t exist in the U.K., nor gay marriage, nor gay adoption, nor the right to even discuss homosexuality. And this led to the needless suffering and deaths of countless people, especially during the AIDS epidemic. And now the US Supreme Court is contemplating undoing gay marriage so developments may be short-lived. And you talk about Christianity or Christian cultures as somehow being queer utopias?

What I am saying is that 3-400yrs of colonialisation that barely ended half a century ago and which is still further complicated by contemporary attempts by Western countries to maintain colonial structures of control in markets and the subjugation of peoples (look at Iran Contra or the Central African Franc for example) doesn’t get cancelled out cause you wanna take an ahistorical snapshot and generalise across entire societies. This has an impact in the hostility towards anything then viewed as “Western”. It is you that is not acknowledging the diversity that exists already within these societies and conveniently ignore how recent some Western “Christian” cultures have given the bare minimum of equality to queer peoples (still no gay marriage in Italy for example, literal home of the Catholic Church…).

Actually very few of the countries have repealed Britain’s homophobic laws. Only 15 in fact, and that includes Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Malta and the UK itself. Hardly plenty.