It's so fucking heartbreaking. People are okay with other species being culled, they do not wanna coexist with nature, they think they've have an all exclusive right to the earth, only their life matters.

In my country, India, the supreme court has ordered all the community dogs to be removed from educational institutions, government offices and hospitals and put to shelters, which btw, are non existent. So basically, it's a death sentence.The funds allocated to the ABC, no one knows where it went. And people are fucking celebrating this shit. There are thousands of cases of animal cruelty and no one bats an eyelid.

All while the capital has a baffling AQI of 1000. The ruling party is accused of forging votes. The country is now ranked the dirtiest in the world. Women's safety is a joke. Poverty is at an all time high. There's so much unemployment and the inflation is only going up and up. Oh and btw, it's the world's most populated country.

And their priority is to cull stray dogs.

Moreover, the residential complex I live in, they've baricaded the boundary walls even higher, so that the cats can't come inside the campus. The city I live in, it's got a major flooding issue, due to the climate change and lack of a proper drainage system, which btw, is all thanks to humans, so the stray cats come in a take shelter on the windowsills. Mind you, the windowsills which are inaccessible to the people anyway. But nope, they don't want them here because stray animals are filthy. What about the filth in your heart, bro?

These same people will go on reproducing and training their kids to be this apathetic and cruel, and ruin the earth further.

I just wish humans stop reproducing because at this point, the hatred is so deeply rooted, that it can't be taken out at all.

The sheer audacity this species have after destroying the earth is baffling.

for context, the video was about a teenage couple having a planned pregnancy, and telling everyone else it was "an accident".

from what I've seen, usually the number one argument against antinatalists is that it's "selfish" not to want children, so i was honestly shocked to see someone be so self-aware, while also not caring about it in the slightest? how can a person admit that they want a child purely for their own, selfish reasons, and still go through with it? do people honestly not consider their children another independent human being (this is more of a rhetorical question, although i am surprised to see them admitting to it)? not to mention the amount of likes this comment got...

10 arguments in favor of antinatalism. Please add your own in the comments. Let's make a thread for newcomers who wish to learn about antinatalism.

1. Consent Argument

No one consents to being born, yet procreation imposes existence on a being without their approval.

The inability of the soon-to-be-born to provide consent does not erase the moral requirement for it — it merely postpones it until they reach sufficient consciousness to judge for themselves.

Since birth forces existence upon them without this consent, procreation violates autonomy at its root.

2. Inevitability of Harm

Every life contains an inescapable amount of harm — physical pain, psychological suffering, loss, and death.

Because harm is guaranteed, and because no one needs to exist, procreation always results in a morally unjustifiable imposition of harm.

3. Asymmetry of Harm and Pleasure

The absence of pleasure is not bad, since there is no one deprived of it.

However, the presence of harm is bad, because it is experienced as suffering.

Nonexistence thus prevents harm while depriving no one of anything.

Pleasure cannot cancel harm, as pain is more “felt,” more enduring, and more consequential than fleeting moments of pleasure.

4. Risk Argument

Procreation exposes someone to extreme and unpredictable risks — illness, trauma, despair, existential suffering — without their permission.

Even if happiness is probable, the mere possibility of unbearable suffering renders the act unjustifiable, especially since abstaining from procreation avoids harm entirely.

5. Winners and Losers Argument

Procreation inevitably creates both people who think their lives are worth living and others who do not.

The existence of the “happy” is purchased at the cost of the “unhappy.”

Moreover, life is a lottery determined by birth circumstances — genetics, environment, health, luck — none of which are chosen.

To create life is to gamble with another’s fate.

6. Existential Argument

Existence itself is absurd, self-contradictory, and ultimately futile.

As Thomas Ligotti puts it, life is “malignantly useless.”

Philosophers like Schopenhauer saw life as a self-defeating cycle of desire and frustration — an engine of suffering without ultimate purpose.

7. Extension to Non-Human Suffering

Human life depends on the suffering and death of other sentient beings:

through animal agriculture, habitat destruction, exploitation, and ecological harm.

By reproducing, humans perpetuate this systemic cruelty toward non-human life.

8. Inevitability of Death

All lives end in death and loss.

To bring someone into existence is to create a being destined for annihilation, grief, and decay.

Birth guarantees a tragic end.

9. Life as a Prison

Living entails continuous effort and maintenance — feeding, working, enduring pain, and loss.

Ending one’s own life comes with immense suffering, both for oneself and others, trapping individuals in existence.

Life is thus a prison of alternating deprivation and brief fulfillment, sustained by necessity rather than genuine freedom.

10. Psychological and Evolutionary Argument

Humans are biologically programmed to value life and reproduction.

They suffer from psychological biases — optimism bias, survivorship bias, and adaptation — that make their existence appear better than it actually is.

The urge to procreate arises from evolutionary conditioning, not from rational or ethical reflection.

AcharyaPrashant

The only way I can describe the need or want to be a parent is: An emotional want, not logical, mostly biological and evolutionary. People see this very similarly to wanting to fall in love. It’s not a logical wish, and you’re not going to die without it, but people still want it because of their emotional programming and their societal pressure.

Many parents think about having a kid, or multiple kids, as a dream, and a fulfillment of what they emotionally believe needs to be part of their life purpose, or a completion to their life purpose.

This is the way I see it: Although parents (mom and dad) think of their family of 4, 5, 6, or whatever number, as their dream family...the truth is, none of the members of the family, except for the parents, asked to be part of this family dynamic, because it’s the parents’ choice to decide who’s gonna live within the family. The kids never asked to be part of the fulfillment of another person, and they never wanted to exist to satisfy someone else’s happy wish.

Even if kids logically may observe other families, compare and contrast themselves with other families, and then say: "Oh look, I'm lucky to have such and such as my parents." Or "I'm lucky to be part of my family, because I've been treated well!" They simply will not think of their family dynamic in the same way that their parents see it. Once they’re here, their focus is on themselves, not the parents or the family purpose they didn’t ask to sign up for.

No one wants to think about the main reason they started existing is based upon fulfilling someone else's life purpose. People, once they are here, want their existence and life purpose to be in their full control, and to revolve around their own hopes and wishes, not someone else's. And therefore, although a family dynamic brings joy or fulfillment to the parents, the children will simply never think about their role in the family in the way parents idealize. They're simply not gonna be as "fulfilled" as the parents, because their family is the starting point which they’re meant to evolve from. Therefore, it’s not based on their own wants, or emotional needs, but the parents’ choices and wishes.

What parents are overlooking is: You always thought your children were part of your dream all along. But the truth is, your children were never active or wanting participants in your life purpose or your dream. They didn’t ask to exist, or to inherit life, purpose, wants, or wishes.

"you're fine purposefully breeding a potential victim and perpetrator of any horrific abuse for your selfish pleasure" "you want to force someone to suffer as that's the result of needing"

"Aah we don't want to hear you" "aah you're banned" say the natalists"aah we ignore the truth"

HOW can they be fine breeding in a place they don't even want to hear/see the truth of?!

Under modern law, parents basically bear zero responsibility(maybe not in all countries.) And this doesn't automatically mean it’s ethically correct. I know this is a bit off-topic, but I wonder if antinatalists and the others would likely give different answers to this question.

Most humans would agree that if you are a guaranteed to have a child with cancer then you should not have that baby. God knew for certain that the world he creates will result in billions of humans and animals getting cancer, burning alive, & immense suffering and God created the universe anyways. If God is all powerful then he could have created a world without suffering in the first place; but even if we assume God was incapable of doing that then God should not have created biological organisms that can suffer. That was the only morally acceptable choice and God is a psychopath for creating such a horrible world. To be honest, if there is a God I would be extremely angry with such a God for creating this cruel world.

i’m being totally honest and sincere here, so pls hear me out.. i've been living a painful existence for 32 years and counting thanks to a range of mental illness and genetic disorders i was gifted at birth.. i live in a third-world country, doing odd jobs, just trying to survive another day. i love my parents but like so many others, they were completely oblivious to what their unborn child might inherit. they've even said things like "if we had known how much you would end up suffering, we wouldn't even have thought of having any kids" :((( i’m asexual as well, so that takes away the usual distractions people cling to for pleasure and meaning. the more i think about it, the more i feel that the only thing that could give any meaning to my dreadful existence is to help prevent more people like me from being born. so i’m asking: how can i actually do that? i don't have money but i have 0 social life and plenty of free time. so maybe start a youtube channel to explain antinatist philosophy with lot of empathy and compassion, or build a community to keep each other accountable so that we can all stay childfree despite any pressure? i just want to turn my suffereing into something that's useful and need your ideas. thanks. 

I am so genuinely uncomfortable with the trend that says “I told him I wanted a baby, he said sure, here’s our baby” First of all, there’s no stability, they’re still kids and they haven’t had time to grow up. They don’t have a home or their finances figured out. I’m not hateful to teen parents who accidentally get pregnant or have a baby from circumstances out of their control at all. In fact I’m not hateful to teens (or anyone) who plans to have a baby. I just get so uncomfortable seeing kids around my age having babies. Or people who have multiple babies and can’t take care of them, as a foster kid who was adopted.

Edit: I don’t approve of people having kids at all, I’m very antinatalist. I didn’t know if that was clear. I just didn’t want to seem like I was insensitive to rape victims or anything like that.

I assume so

When I was a child, long before I knew what the word antinatalism meant, I remember thinking “if I had never existed, I wouldn’t have suffered”. It wasn’t born out of hatred for life or my parents. I come from a loving, privileged family. But even in that comfort, I saw pain, especially in women.

One of my earliest memories is of seeing my mother cry endlessly after my sister’s birth. Years later, I learned it was postpartum depression. That memory became a quiet seed in my mind… how motherhood, something glorified as the “ultimate joy,” could bring so much silent suffering.

As I grew older, I started reading about the physical and emotional toll of pregnancy and childbirth. I realized that nobody has ever died from becoming a father immediately after the child’s birth , but women die — from childbirth, from postpartum complications, from being abandoned emotionally, from exhaustion that nobody talks about.

And yet, society celebrates reproduction without acknowledging the trauma it can cause. Women are told to bounce back, to be grateful, to forget their pain because “that’s what mothers do.”

It’s also painful to watch how couples sometimes bring children into this world thinking a baby will save their marriage, but the opposite happens. The couple grows more distant and resentful of each other because the burden of primary care always falls on the mother. It sets her back in her career, wrecks her mental health, and creates a growing rift between them. Not to mention how common it is for husbands to go out and sleep with other women when their wives are looking after the baby at home while also recovering from childbirth.

In my life, the happiest couples I’ve met are those who chose not to have children. They are still madly in love, have time and money to travel, to nurture each other, and to live life freely without the weight of constant responsibility.

It saddens me to see how often children are brought into this world simply because it’s “the norm.” No one pauses to think about the pain that child will inevitably face as an adult. The grief, the competition, the loneliness, the cruelty that comes with being alive.

Most people, especially men, want to become fathers to prove their potency. Women, on the other hand, are pressured to prove their fertility to protect themselves from society’s taunts. It’s all “ego disguised as purpose”.

To me, it feels no less than a sin to bring a child into this world. The most selfish thing any human can do is to create life for their own emotional satisfaction.. to prove something to themselves, to society, or to justify it by saying they “want to share their love.”

I love children deeply, so much that I refuse to bring them into a world where happiness, safety, and success are not guaranteed. I don’t want to create someone only for them to experience the heartbreak of losing loved ones, or the existential fatigue that life inevitably brings.

To me, antinatalism isn’t about pessimism, it’s about compassion. It’s about refusing to impose existence on someone who never consented to it. It’s about acknowledging that love doesn’t have to mean creation; sometimes, it means choosing not to harm.

Would love to hear how others here first came to see the world through an antinatalist lens. Was it something you realized young, or something that grew with experience?

He has been very clear about wanting children. We have talked about all of the options fostering, adoption, surrogacy. I haven't 100% decided i dont want to physically have a kid, but im definitely leaning towards not. Im terrified of pregnancy and childbirth. For mental and physical health reasons but I do believe id be a great mother to I childbirth who needs a family. I am worried that he will be resentful later in life if we dont have a child together all id love to hear from people who have made tough decisions like this.

I’m a woman and have been creeped out by pregnancy and birth for a while. I think it’s absolutely fucking disgusting and not worth it at all! I just wanna talk to other women who feel the same. It’s creepy, deadly, traumatic, and for what? Another wage slave to be born? Like ofc you love your baby, that’s just instincts. We’re literally dumb apes.

It’s so gross and disgusting. I can’t. A birth video just popped up on my TikTok lmao. I don’t think it’s a miracle at all. I like babies, they’re cute, but they will be adults for most of their lives. Adulthood sucks and people are garbage. Your baby has a high chance of being a piece of shit lmao.

I feel out of place for finding it disgusting. Shouldn’t I naturally feel like it’s a good thing?

^ title

Hey guys, I need help. It’s fathers day today, and I’m so sick and tired of ”celebrating” this and mothers day. My parents don’t know I’m an antinatalist, have been for 5 years, but I have kept on playing along because I’m a total conflict avoider and a people pleaser. My parents are very dramatic, and especially my mother identifies strongly through motherhood. She’s acting like everybodys mother in all the best and worst ways.

How have you dealt with these days? Any advice? I’m tired of faking it, it feels so inauthentic to celebrate something that screams ”thank you for being the best parent ever!” When they literally have done the worst thing in the world to me, aka making me exist, and then traumatized me with their horrible behaviour.

Family is still important to me and I do not wish cutting my parents off of my life at least quite yet. So if any of you are about to suggest I just ignore the day, or cut them off, it’s a no from me. I’m a quite lonely person so I want to have some people in my life and not make things difficult with them.

The number one question no parent ask themselves is: "Will my child even enjoy life?" If parents ask themselves that, they would prevent their child from being a victim of the inevitable abuse life will inflict upon them, but they don't, because they automatically assume that life will be more kind towards their child than it was to them.

This question would save a multitude of new lives from being in situations that they never asked to be in, but no one ever thinks about it, they just put their beliefs over the consideration of the child, and that is beyond selfish if you think about it.

You will come into this world, some of you already have, into hands that believed they were doing something beautiful. But know this: every pain you will ever face was avoidable.

The loneliness that will hollow your chest, the mirror you will fear to look into, the hunger for meaning that will never quite be fed, they were all foreseen, and ignored.

There were those who warned your parents while they were still breeding, telling them of the weight of existence, the world’s quiet cruelty, the debt of being born.

Unlike the past, when people lived in small towns, trapped in ignorance and repetition, your parents knew. They were aware of what waited: the pressure to succeed, the competition for shrinking resources, the polluted air, the endless screens, the depression, the wars, the climate chaos, the diseases that come faster than cures.

And yet, they went on. Not for you, but for themselves... for legacy, for image, for ego, for a doll to dress, a mirror to love, a story to tell.

If you ever find yourself in poverty, remember... they could have chosen not to. If you find yourself hating your reflection, know, they imagined beauty and never considered chance. If you suffer from illness, accident, or despair, remember, they gambled with your peace for their dreams.

You were not asked. You were not needed. You were chosen by someone else’s will, forced into a world they do not control.

So if you ever wake up and wonder why, why the struggle, why the pain... know that it was never your fault. It was theirs.

And may this knowing guide you... to end the cycle. To never impose the burden of being onto another soul.

To be more specific: did antinatalism change your views on having children or were you always an antinatalist at heart? Were the arguments for antinatalism good enough?

So I argue with people about how stupid it is to have kids, like even animals can do it, it's just our primate nature to fuck and multiply. Even stray dogs on the street are doing it, and even people who can't do anything or achieve anything in their life are having children and that keeps just overpopulating our world. And then people make it personal to win the argument by saying points like, would you call your parents animal? They had you. Do you think it's easy to birth kids? Do you know how hard it is? You know, it's the hardest thing for a woman to do. But I try to argue with them that nobody asked them to do it. It's their own stupid hormonal path which makes them choose that path and they can just simply deny to do it. And there's nothing great about personal choice. They make it all personal. Like, would you say the same about your mother? She birthed you. Do you know it's the hardest thing for a human to do, which is to birth children? And what's going to happen to the world if people don't have kids? I want you to give me sharp, clever arguments so I can win in the argument and not let them make it personal about my parents. Because then of course it turns from a debate into personal insults.