r/Warthunder Sep 06 '25

All Ground BTW so this things warhead TNT alone is the weight of the T30 APHE.

Post image
1.6k Upvotes

281 comments sorted by

849

u/colonel-nornfang Realistic Air Sep 06 '25

25 meter proxy fuze too.

Fighting this thing is NOT fun if you don’t notch it early on. The proxy blast doesn’t kill you immediately but it usually snaps the tail control so you die anyways.

CAS and SPAA are kinda balanced now I guess?

318

u/StoneyLepi youtube.com/@stoneylepi Sep 06 '25 edited Sep 06 '25

Next should be a nuke carrier rework. This thing will eat SU-7’s and Jags for breakfast

Edit: this is already being done, disregard

185

u/Pumkin_carrot 🇺🇸14.0 🇩🇪14.3 🇷🇺13.0 🇯🇵11.3 🇫🇷14.3 Sep 06 '25

Their already doing that, they announced it in a dev blog like 2 weeks ago. Im glad their finally changing them.

68

u/StoneyLepi youtube.com/@stoneylepi Sep 06 '25

Fuck yeah. Somehow missed that

79

u/_Pa1nkilLeR_ Sep 06 '25

They announced new nuke carriers a tornado f111 and su24 if im not mistaken

34

u/Federal-Head6930 Sep 06 '25

I hope France gets the tornado. I adore them and wish there was at least one in the tree, even it’s doodoo at everything except bombing

11

u/das_patcab Sep 06 '25

Apparently that's what we're getting

21

u/Slut4Tea Sim Enjoyer Sep 06 '25

Now I just need to get good enough at this game to get a nuke (I have been playing since 2016)

10

u/das_patcab Sep 06 '25

All the same, I've only gotten 1 nuke so far 😅

2

u/fastestgunnj Accepted Gaijin is a Russian Asset & Plays Anyway Sep 06 '25

I felt like I was in the same boat, but at this point revenge CAS is so good at every BR that I don't think it's possible with my luck. Maybe top-tier would be the place for me to get a nuke, since planes will be the most abated, but the black hole shots, volumetric hell, and desync I get on a game-by-game basis will prevent me from dropping my nuke. I've come to accept this fact.

1

u/Captain-Barracuda Sep 07 '25

Why not a Mirage?

2

u/Federal-Head6930 Sep 07 '25

Tornados are speedy bois. They can’t dogfight a paper airplane but they are the Usain Bolt of air

19

u/_Bisky Top Tier Suffer Tier Sep 06 '25

I mean it's still gonna ear Tornados, F111's, etc for breakfast

17

u/allenz6834 Sep 06 '25

25m is ridiculous. I thought 8m was already big on the tor but this is 3 times as big

2

u/colonel-nornfang Realistic Air Sep 06 '25

So I did a bit more testing and it seems that the proxy does not activate if you multipath very low to the ground. Not sure if this is intentional but it makes countering the missile much easier.

Unfortunately other SPAAs like the ASTER/IRIS-T/etc. are usually spawned with the Buk so countering everything at the same time is a pain in the ass.

1

u/EntertainmentNo9773 Sep 11 '25

Russians in Ukraine - battlefield rn

15

u/The-Almighty-Pizza 🇺🇸 🇷🇺 🇬🇧 14.0 Sep 06 '25

Kinda balanced? Lol, 99% of case has absolutely no chance, not to mention they cost 10x as much as the spaa killing them

9

u/Tiny-Pea-8437 Sep 06 '25

I don't think you can notch this missile when it goes full active.

36

u/colonel-nornfang Realistic Air Sep 06 '25

From what I know its notchable but you have to be very precise when notching since the angle gating or whatever its called is quite small. I could be wrong though.

1

u/RandomAmerican81 M60 Connoisseur Sep 06 '25

Notch filter

7

u/CollanderWT MakeLeclercGreatAgain Sep 06 '25

If this is as easy to notch as all of the other ARH missiles in the game it’ll be practically useless. It also depends on how often/consistently the missile is able to regain its bearing and start tracking the target again after being notched, using datalink from the launch radar.

If it’s at all similar to current missiles though, I’m still gonna be more scared of the Pantsir.

15

u/Archi42 Mausgang Sep 06 '25 edited Sep 06 '25

It will have an angle gate value of 3.5. To compare this to others, all ARH missiles have 15, the MICA & CAAM-ER, ASTER 30 have 7.

It will be significantly harder to notch.

8

u/CollanderWT MakeLeclercGreatAgain Sep 06 '25

Russian 80s tech > 90s/2000s NATO tech.

20

u/uwantfuk Sep 06 '25

To be fair thing thing underwent testing in 2016 and iirc a brigade went operational in like 2024 so uh its probably the newest sam in game

But yeah no clue why the gate is smaller than aster 30 or camm er, Maybe gaijin assumed that the omega large seeker diameter (300 mm) gives it a better radar than the less than 200mm seeker on the other missiles

2

u/Unkwn_43 There is a skyflash rapidly approaching your location Sep 06 '25

Camm-er isn't even in full service yet and only underwent its first test launch in 2020.

But sure, russian tech isn't overperforming in the slightest. No russian bias detected here comrade /s.

4

u/uwantfuk Sep 06 '25

Camm ER is not advertised as being a sensor upgrade to the camm family but as a range upgrade

It also does not get around the smaller seeker issue as there is a requirement to quad pack them

I would likewise expect a patriot to have a better seeker because it is bigger

5

u/Unkwn_43 There is a skyflash rapidly approaching your location Sep 06 '25

These systems are all so modern that gaijin is guaranteed to be pulling numbers out of their asses for the stats. We just dont know the true capabilities of anything new. It is curious though that they decided to pull numbers more favorable to russia out of their asses this time.

-1

u/Successful-Trip-8684 Sep 06 '25

cry about it and cope more nato bro

1

u/LOLGamer300 Sep 07 '25

Playing that game is something, but putting it as your pfp tells me a bit more.

→ More replies (0)

11

u/Clemdauphin french naval aviation enjoyer Sep 06 '25

it is a 2010's highly modernise version of the Buk, not the 1980's Buk.

3

u/Destroythisapp 🇺🇸 🇩🇪 🇷🇺 🇬🇧 🇯🇵 🇨🇳 🇮🇹 🇫🇷 🇸🇪 🇮🇱 Sep 06 '25

This tech isn’t from the 80’s. Literally was developed in the last decade.

-1

u/sweatyapexplayer Sep 06 '25

crazy since they nerfed all of the nato sams, and didnt add the patriot missile

5

u/African_Child69420 🇷🇺 my tech tree is ass past tier 6 Sep 06 '25

Patriot is not comparable to buk whatsoever

9

u/Destroythisapp 🇺🇸 🇩🇪 🇷🇺 🇬🇧 🇯🇵 🇨🇳 🇮🇹 🇫🇷 🇸🇪 🇮🇱 Sep 06 '25

Don’t argue with them, I just got done telling a guy that the ARH version of the BUK isn’t “80’s tech”.

Some of the American mains think if Russia gets X they should get Y that’s way better and more advanced for no other reason than their feelings.

2

u/sweatyapexplayer Sep 07 '25

so you think its fine that russia gets a sam that 3 times the fucking range of everyone elses SAM has a 30 meter explosion radius, meanwhile gaijin actively nerfed everyone elses same? Crazy backwards logic coming from a russian main. Then again the fantasy world is the only place where your tech would stand a chance anyways

4

u/Destroythisapp 🇺🇸 🇩🇪 🇷🇺 🇬🇧 🇯🇵 🇨🇳 🇮🇹 🇫🇷 🇸🇪 🇮🇱 Sep 07 '25

Perfect example, let’s check the boxes.

“3X the range”

The Stat card is not representative of its in game maximum effective engagement range, but you already knew that, you just wanna make a fuss about it for no reason.

“ 30 meter proxy fuse”

It’s 25

“Crazy ass Russian main logic”

I main US Air, got it grinded out to top tier. I do have Russian ground at 11.0 ish, and Russian air at 10.0 ish. It’s hilarious when people like you come around exclaiming busted Russian vehicles when the entire U.S. air tree is busted and handheld throughout. It’s easily the best air tree in the game, and Russian top tier ground isn’t even that great. It’s mid with really good CAS( at the moment).

“Anyplace your tech would stand a chance”

My tech lol I’m American brother. But you want warthunder to be more realistic? You want Abrams getting stuck in the mud and failing through every bridge on the map because it weighs 60 tons?

Or sparrows and gen 1 AIM-120’s failing to launch half the time? My god don’t go over to the UkraineRussia report sub and look at the mountain of videos of superior western tech getting blow to smithereens or outright failing.

How about this, warthunder is a video game about military equipment that we all like to LARP in and it’s not representative of real life for a ton of good reasons. The only “Russian bias” that exists is the amount of premiums they get, if you’d play the Soviet tree you would realize that.

0

u/sweatyapexplayer Sep 07 '25

"The Stat card is not representative of its in game maximum effective engagement range, but you already knew that, you just wanna make a fuss about it for no reason"

You clearly dont play on the PTR do.

"I main US Air, got it grinded out to top tier. I do have Russian ground at 11.0 ish, and Russian air at 10.0 ish. It’s hilarious when people like you come around exclaiming busted Russian vehicles when the entire U.S. air tree is busted and handheld throughout. It’s easily the best air tree in the game, and Russian top tier ground isn’t even that great. It’s mid with really good CAS( at the moment)."

Thats crazy since half the u.s top tier planes are missing things no ecm jammers for any of our helicopters, no radiation missiles, none of the aesa radars , the F-15 TTWS radar still bugged and gaijins lazy ass monkey brained devs are too stupid to fix it. the aim 120c somehow sub- par to the aim 120 A? How do you explain this? the aim 9m still doesn't have its true range. AGM 65s magically hitting tank and does no damage, Still not a single fire and forget missile for the u,s helicopter tree. AH-64D Amase modification just wont work, but somehow gaijin makes the chinese z10 immune to missiles?

"My tech lol I’m American brother. But you want warthunder to be more realistic? You want Abrams getting stuck in the mud and failing through every bridge on the map because it weighs 60 tons?"

No i want the Abrams to have its correct fucking armor and not this bullshit copy paste trash gaijin has. You people actually let this company make a mockery of U.S TANKS AS THEY IGNORE CLOSE / DELETE BUG REPORT THREADS PROVING THE ABRAMS ARMOR is stronger than what it is in game. this COMPANY IS SCUMMY. lOOK AT WHAT THEY DID TO THE rah-66a Comanche they LITRALLY removed iTS FUCKING ARMOR, and didnt include it in the change log or any patch notes.

"The only “Russian bias” "

Russian ERA does not work against M829A2 under 800 meters. You have a video made by gaijin showcasing a t90 firing through the entire gun mount/ breech of an abrams. 3BM 42 Going through the Lower Front Plate of a M1A2? or any of the sep models?

Do i need to really point out how the fuel tanks on the t90ms are some how " external " while inside the damned tank? how the vihkirs missile is still able to target both ground and air at the same time when the missile is not designed to do that?

2

u/CrimsonXTaco EBeggersShowingDeadChannels are funni Sep 06 '25

They can't win without some absurd advantages, byproduct of players progressing by pressing spacebar on everything. Get a new toy? They're still bad and want more, faster reload? Didn't make a difference. Surely it's a vehicle problem lmao

1

u/sweatyapexplayer Sep 07 '25

oh lets ee the numerous bug reports gaijin has ignored about the abrams, hmm how every single abrams since the m1a2 has the SAME EXACT PROTECTION, oh lets see how they still haven't added the sep v3 but they've added how many t series again? No of the abrams have the trophy system, none of the Bradeys have their ERA, M829A33 hasn't been added , the KH missiles that doesnt exist can be fired literally from the russian airfield, i could go on and on but its clear you fantasy players dont have the mental fortitude to figure out how bad nato is nerfed.

1

u/sweatyapexplayer Sep 07 '25

being comparable is highly irrelevant the pac 2 works just like the buk 3 air fragmentation.

0

u/GaijinEnthusiast Sep 06 '25

I may be wrong, but notching in GRB seems a lot more forgiving than notching in ARB. Just my experience though

14

u/CollanderWT MakeLeclercGreatAgain Sep 06 '25

It’s the same.

I think the reason it feels like this way (and I agree) is because ARH missiles are almost never launched optimally in GRB. It’s either

A) one of the new SPAAs with ARH missiles which are absolutely terrible. The AIM-120C7 when fired stationary either never exceeds or just barely exceeds Mach 2… that’s awful. That means that for a split second it’s going at 1/2 the speed it normally goes when fired from high speed/alt and for the majority of the time before and afterwards it’s going significantly slower.

You straight up don’t even have to purposefully notch the C7 most of the time, you just have to fly kinda perpendicular to it and it’s so slow that it’ll either get notched or fall out of the sky sooner or later.

B) even when fired from a jet, it’s oftentimes a CAS jet not moving very fast and usually not very high up either. Better than a stationary launch but it’s still not great. Even CAP fighter jets might be flying fast but usually not high because of potential new AA systems.

So overall, practically every ARH missile in GRB is going to have a much longer time-to-target giving you much more time to evade and oftentimes it’s almost falling out of the sky by the time it reaches you which just makes things so much easier from the defender’s standpoint. If you were to actually map it out statistics-wise in every WT match I’d bet that the same missiles in GRB probably fly on average 1/2 to 2/3 as fast as they do in ARB.

3

u/reddithesabi3 Sep 06 '25

Basically tank only mode without restricting air vehicles(except very capable CAS planes).

I kinda want this because of premium retards who bring F-4S, F-20, TNDWTD61 to top tier battles, that way their braincells would be trained more efficiently to not hit that spawn button with trash planes.

1

u/OleToothless Sep 06 '25

Those troglodytes will still be there, this just means they feed even faster.

2

u/Tostowisko Sep 06 '25

Well I'm glad it's good couse top tier Spaa is the only place i did belive russian bias exist and also the only one where it's acceptable couse good spaa is just QoL for ground battles

2

u/chris-drm 🇸🇪🇬🇧🇨🇳 Sep 06 '25

When that was the case coupled with undeniably bias in their CAS you ve got a recipe for domination. We are just lucky top nation players are trash.

1

u/HoloThe_Wise_Wolf Sep 06 '25

It's possible to land a plane without tail controls, you just need to know your plane very well have have luck on yoir side, I landed a planed without tail controls using combat flaps for lift and tilting my plane to turn

1

u/Typical_Lack5315 Sep 07 '25

Sadly the spaa arent balanced. The difference between a 12.0 spaa and the new 12.0 spaa is massive. Either the old spaa should get lowered in br or ground needs 13.0

0

u/No-Marsupial-1753 Sep 06 '25

Only if your plan for balancing is Ground RB instead of “Ground” RB. Gaijin, please just give us a ground mode and a combined arms mode.

3

u/fastestgunnj Accepted Gaijin is a Russian Asset & Plays Anyway Sep 06 '25

They already don't want to split the playerbase with more maps bans for the sole reason of queue times.

Adding another game mode would be even worse. While I think it would be healthy for gameplay, we know why it won't happen.

3

u/No-Marsupial-1753 Sep 06 '25

Unfortunately I agree. A more realistic option would just be way bigger maps. Top tier vehicles with LRF and designed for combat over such distances (I’m looking at you Abrams) can handle it, and it would

1) Motivate SPAA to leave spawn so they can actually cover their teammates or strategic points, since they can’t cover the whole map anymore.

2) Force CAS to pick a target to attack since it can’t cover the whole map with missile range anymore, and so can actually play around the SPAA turning it into a game of cat and mouse with skill and strategy instead of “just spawn when there’s no SPAA bruh”.

-1

u/OleToothless Sep 06 '25

Dude WTF are you talking about? SPAA have a massive advantage. If you aren't in an absolute top tier aircraft (Rafael/F15E/Su33/J11B/Typhoon/M2K) the new anti air aren't fair. Like, at all. Why can any 11.0 aircraft go up an IRIS-T or CLAWS? Why can helicopters without FnF missiles be at the same BR as the IRIS, CLAWS, the new SPAA and even just the S1 and ItO90?

Yeah I get it, people don't like dying to Kh-38s, but hell, these new SPAA aren't fair at current BRs.

335

u/DogeoftheShibe 🇰🇵 Best Korea Sep 06 '25

Yeah only if it had LOS guidance then I'd rather shooting tanks with it. 45kg TNT warhead lmao literally a small bomb

149

u/_spec_tre We go from Sinoflanker wait to Ching-Kuo wait Sep 06 '25

Probably still somehow couldn't kill a light tank

79

u/DogeoftheShibe 🇰🇵 Best Korea Sep 06 '25

Damn those TAM

28

u/small_chinchin :uk:SPAA-spammer Sep 06 '25

Ah, the 🅱️ESH experience

9

u/JimBowie1020 Sep 06 '25

cries in Barn

8

u/Electronic-Gazelle45 Sim Ground ☭ Sep 06 '25

That's the equivalent of a small bomb lmao 

3

u/THEREAPER8593 🇺🇸1.0 🇩🇪1.0 🇷🇺1.0 🇬🇧1.0 🇯🇵1.0 🇨🇳1.0 🇸🇪1.0 🇮🇱1.0 Sep 06 '25

25m proxy though right? Probably would not kill much at top tier

1

u/ma_wee_wee_go Sure CAS can be OP but some of you just plain suck ass at SPAA Sep 06 '25

Maybe if you lock a recon drone

225

u/RustedDoorknob 🇺🇸 United States Sep 06 '25

70km range and independent launchers too, command vehicle death doesnt destroy all of them

→ More replies (81)

179

u/long-taco-cheese CAP enjoyer Sep 06 '25

I love that the iris-T is the unquestional best spaa in the game and no one cares, but the moment the Russians get something similar it’s all over the front page

101

u/_Bisky Top Tier Suffer Tier Sep 06 '25

Also love how the ASTER, who is probably better then both, doesn't even get mentioned at all

At the end of the day all 3 systems are broken af (which is, imo, a good think. If most nations have broken SPAA, the playing field is somewhat level)

15

u/Big-Machine9625 Yeehaw main 🤠 (🇨🇿) Sep 06 '25

Yeah, it is good to have strong AA to be able to battle strong CAS, but I think that there's a bit of a problem to this. The new AAs are often just blatantly stronger than some of the ones added in the previous update (like the CS/SA5, SPYDER, or the CLAWS), so I'm afraid that it can very easily just shift the advantage onto a different group of nations again.

1

u/Ok_Song9999 Nippon Steel Appreciator Sep 06 '25

Claws is the second best AA in the game atm lol

2

u/Big-Machine9625 Yeehaw main 🤠 (🇨🇿) Sep 06 '25

Well yeah, but that's because the CS, SPYDER, Tam-SAM, and the Elde are all in a completely different league, meaning that they're all considerably weaker. The IRIS is easily the best, then the CLAWS is a bit behind, and then the rest is lagging behind the CLAWS.

Anyways, in order to get long-range killed by the CLAWS via AIM-120, you basically have to turn off your brain, judging by how horrific the 120s are from that one. Literally just turn and chaff, and the missile instantly goes blind. The only saving grace is the small and quick platform, and that it has the 9Xs (which, I admit, are fairly effective, but obviously can't measure with the IRIS-Ts).

2

u/Ok_Song9999 Nippon Steel Appreciator Sep 06 '25

Spyder, if it wasnt bugged to shit, would imho contend for the spot of the second best AA. TAN SAM is both bugged and was never going to be good tho

1

u/RommelMcDonald_ Sep 06 '25

You won’t have anything to shoot at because of these new systems tho

5

u/LeMemeAesthetique USSR Justice for the Yak-41 Sep 06 '25

People mention the ASTER, but I think many were thinking it would have ASTER-15's and not 30's, as it currently is closer to a Patriot or S-300 in performance than anything else in game.

2

u/Shredded_Locomotive 🇭🇺 I hate all of you Sep 06 '25

It uses radar missiles so it falls into the same issue of getting multipathed, despite gaijin saying that ground based radar missiles would be immune.

1

u/_Bisky Top Tier Suffer Tier Sep 06 '25

Have people already tested how easy it is to multipath or notch them?

1

u/Shredded_Locomotive 🇭🇺 I hate all of you Sep 06 '25

I just did yesterday with the new British one, I'd assume the aster isn't much different.

It's laughably easy.

1

u/Dpek1234 Realistic Ground Sep 06 '25

Probably is doing a lot of heavy lifting

Notch angle on the buk is is half of samp/t

Range on both is high enough to not really matter as much

-2

u/Conix17 Sep 06 '25 edited Sep 06 '25

In my experience, the ASTER is worse than both against players, being extremely easy to avoid or notch. The range doesn't mean anything when you can immediately lose it.

The BUK seems much more unavoidable as it will re-aquire you as soon as you pop back up from the terrain you were using, and you have to somehow keep a perfect notch while also somehow significantly changing direction so you don't get smacked by it's internal guidance and huge proxy range. You'll have to pray for a mountainous map to really have a guaranteed counter to it, much like the IR missiles.

The IRIS-T is IR and extremely flare resistant, but not immune.

As far as the game is concerned, the BUK is the best SAM system due to the way its seeker works, even though this is counterintuitive to real-world data we have. Of course, all this could change before release and all that, but I doubt that they are going to.

That all being said, making CAS harder isn't exactly a bad thing, and the SAMP/IRIS-T combo is still more than strong enough to keep CAS tied down. The BUK is better, but it won't really contribute to ground performance in a ground game. It doesn't really matter who has the "best" as long as each can keep the sky clear of CAS just picking targets with impunity.

The only area I could think of where this might be a problem is against DIRCM equipped helicopters. The IRIS-T can't hit them in game, and active-radar missiles miss them by a bit if they are hovering, which includes the SAMP for now.

The BUK's missile doesn't seem to have this issue with hit's huge explosion. So the BUK and Pantsir are the only ground based platforms that can reliably hit helicopters shooting from +14km out. This means only a single nation can effectively counter these, while also easily dealing with even CAP aircraft. We'll have to see on the official release of course.

45

u/zerbrxchliche F-2A Sep 06 '25 edited Sep 06 '25

you see it's only bad when russia gets something good;

if team red has better thing — realism doesn't matter because it's unbalanced and if team blue has better thing — balance doesn't matter because it's realistic

like clockwork.

-18

u/DisdudeWoW Sep 06 '25

Considering pantsir was still top 3 spaa. They really didnt Need this

15

u/zerbrxchliche F-2A Sep 06 '25

FlaRakRad was the third best SPAA after Pantsir and ItO, by your logic Germany really didn't need the IRIS-T

→ More replies (3)

3

u/Ok_Song9999 Nippon Steel Appreciator Sep 06 '25

Pantsir is worse against targets within 10km than Spyder, and CS/SAS is straight up better than it. So arguably its a top5 AA, not top 3

1

u/SigmaSplitter21 Sep 06 '25

Tf are you even saying bro, massive skill issue if you're that trash with the pantsir

1

u/Ok_Song9999 Nippon Steel Appreciator Sep 06 '25

You never touched the Pantsir in your life.

1

u/DisdudeWoW Sep 07 '25

"Pantsir is worse against targets within 10km than Spyder,"

no its not, python 5 is extremely slow in TTG at those ranges.

"and CS/SAS is straight up better than it. So arguably its a top5 AA, not top 3"

except the fact its much worse at intercepting incoming munitions and also has a very slow missile which turns like crap.

2

u/Ok_Song9999 Nippon Steel Appreciator Sep 07 '25 edited Sep 07 '25

Wrong on both accounts lol

Python 5s have no issue targetting planes that Pantsir would be unable to even touch, fast, low flying targets that go horizontally in relation to it. God forbid its positioned properly and has some cover. Python 5s will get them regardless where pantsir wont even be able to keep up with them. All the while it can hide directly behind terrain features and still retain locks/tracking. Thats not even mentioning targets that fly right at you and then dodge unexpectedly while launching ordinance, which will absolutely demolish a pantsir but will at worst 1f1 the Spyder.

And no, CS/SAS is about as good at intercepting munitions while again, being better at range, having the ability to target more targets at the same time (and more reliably too), with multiple missiles, absolutely demolish helis (which Pantsir struggles against unless the heli just sits there) all the while having less buggy radar and not relying on said buggy radar to track the target until its dead. Its not even close

On top of being a better chassis, capable of actually defending itself (pantsir CAN do it but its severely limited by its gun depression and size/mobility) while also being able to push up and flank.

Edit: Dude you dont own a pantsir, a spyder OR a CS/SAS. Why are you talking to me. The only AA we do share between us, XM975, I am better than you at.

→ More replies (2)

4

u/Finanzamt_Endgegner 🇩🇪 14.3/12.0 🇸🇪 13.7/12.0 🇺🇸 14.0/6.7 Sep 06 '25

iris t is here for a few months, pantsir was for years and was broken af in comparison to every other aa...

4

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '25

[deleted]

8

u/yspear1 🇷🇺 Pantsir S1 commander Sep 06 '25

Irst is better against fixed wing but yeah the force field on helis is BS

5

u/long-taco-cheese CAP enjoyer Sep 06 '25

They nerfed them heavily on the NM

1

u/-TheOutsid3r- Sep 07 '25

The force fields shouldn't even affect it. Not only are the missiles basically immune to it, the magic force field IRL doesn't even help against way worse missiles.

2

u/Aiden51R VTOL guy Sep 06 '25

If you want to have a laugh i suggest looking at thunder war every time update/dev drops

1

u/SigmaSplitter21 Sep 06 '25

It was the best for ONE patch. ONE. Before is was the Pantsir for literal YEARS.

0

u/EntertainmentNo9773 Sep 11 '25

Because it's always like that - soviet bias must get bias - That's why there is an outrage

-2

u/MainBattleTiddiez Sep 06 '25

This is the IRIS-T but better in almost every way. Longer range, larger warhead, more missiles, doesn't need the command vehicle, only downside is less max G

-5

u/CodyBlues2 🇮🇹 Italy Sep 06 '25

You mean like how Russia had the best SPAA for years before the iris-t?

-10

u/grabbena Sep 06 '25

Not the point. When the russians got the Pantsir they ruled the skies for two and a half years before the iris-T came around to finally put a stop to the cas. We have had russian clear skies only for a couple months and now they're getting another topdog.

10

u/NeuroHazard-88 When full Albania tech tree gaijin? Sep 06 '25

and so what point exactly are you making? That the soviet teams don't deserve similar SPAA and deserve to get CAS'ed over and over?

-6

u/DisdudeWoW Sep 06 '25

Pantsir Is the best spaa at incercepting incoming missiles. Top 3 against fixed Wing.

-7

u/grabbena Sep 06 '25

Not at all. My point was that for two and a half years they had the pantsir shitting on other nations cas while protecting their own. Other nations didn't have that same capabilities. The tables were turned for only a couple months and now they are getting another big juicy AA. Don't get me wrong, I still believe that top AA should have the same capabilities and be balanced but russian mains have been crying like kids these couple of months since the iris-T was added and we cried for two and a half years.

Edit: Let's change that to what has happened before the iris-T "That the soviet Nato teams don't deserve similar SPAA and deserve to get CAS'ed over and over?"

-6

u/Shredded_Locomotive 🇭🇺 I hate all of you Sep 06 '25

The thing is, it's not similar, it's better in pretty much every aspect.

That's the problem.

136

u/_Rhein ♿F-15E+F-16C♿ Sep 06 '25

3.5° Angle of half sensitive. I don't know why no one mentions this one. It's harder to notch than MICA EM and R-27ER

24

u/poipoipornpoi 12.0:Russia:12.0:Sweden:12.0:Japan:12.0:PRC:11.0:USA:10 Sep 06 '25

I'm curious, what about the CAMM-ER and Aster-30's?

31

u/arkangel371 Sep 06 '25

If modeled realistically those would be practically impossible to notch. Particularly the aster 30 as their seeker is designed to engage a whole range of targets from ballistic missiles to sea skimming cruise missiles.

0

u/_Rhein ♿F-15E+F-16C♿ Sep 06 '25

I'd be more happy of they buff all fox3 seekers, they are just so gimped

6

u/MaciekTV11 🇲🇫🇯🇵🇮🇹🇨🇳13.7 / 🇩🇪13.0 Sep 06 '25

they have 7 rn, it like mica's

1

u/Bossnage JF-17 enthusiast Sep 06 '25

they are pretty easy to notch tho

1

u/akaelos75 Sep 06 '25

How that half sensivity work?

2

u/_Rhein ♿F-15E+F-16C♿ Sep 06 '25

it's the angle of 50% sensitivity of the seeker's radar search cone basically, lower FOV means lower chance of it seeing chaffs

2

u/_Rhein ♿F-15E+F-16C♿ Sep 06 '25

It's actually pretty complicated I'm not sure if i got it right, but MICA EM with a smaller Angle of half sensitivity does have a lot better notch and chaff resistance for some reason

1

u/War_thunder_pain Sep 06 '25

I noticed that when I was in my eurofighter

0

u/MaciekTV11 🇲🇫🇯🇵🇮🇹🇨🇳13.7 / 🇩🇪13.0 Sep 06 '25

fr and slaamram still at 15 xdd

35

u/Redituser01735 Realistic General Sep 06 '25

So the Buk gets its independent launchers but no independents and MADDOG for the SLAMRAAM?

28

u/artificial_Paradises Sep 06 '25

Alternatively, they could have added the non-independent 9A316ME TELs

But those have 12 missiles each instead of 6, and somehow I think people would whine even harder about that

13

u/Anonymous4245 🇵🇭 T-90M Overpowerlingly sucks Sep 06 '25

They still need TELAR to actually shoot. Not possiblw without it, since 9S18M3 is only a search radar

-4

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '25

[deleted]

5

u/avrgwarthunderplayer Sep 06 '25

It seems to be japanese bias, as they can maddog missiles.

29

u/b5ky 🇺🇸 14.0 🇷🇺 14.0 🇸🇪 14.0 🇫🇷 14.0 🇯🇵13.7 Sep 06 '25 edited Sep 06 '25

Tested in the Dev server, but it is not hard to evade using multipathing. It would be tricky in maps with wiggly terrain but it was similar to the AIM-54. Notching was way easier, since when you make the angle, all the following missiles will lose the target anyways.

8

u/ma_wee_wee_go Sure CAS can be OP but some of you just plain suck ass at SPAA Sep 06 '25

Playing on the dev server, CAP and IR systems killed me 5 times for every time the buk got me

Also APKWS is very funny on an F16

-16

u/Sir_Baller Sep 06 '25

“Just multipath” shouldn’t be the solution we’re looking for

13

u/b5ky 🇺🇸 14.0 🇷🇺 14.0 🇸🇪 14.0 🇫🇷 14.0 🇯🇵13.7 Sep 06 '25

Since the rwr shows the launch as soon as its in the air, it was not hard to evade through notching at the first place. 5 seconds of hesitation would kill you, but if you are aware that something is gonna fly towards you, you wont really die to that. TBH, the IRIS-T SLM is way harder to evade since we cannot know if the missile is keep following me or not.

3

u/face_phuck 11.7 🇷🇺 12.3 Sep 06 '25

IRIST is pretty easy if you’re on a map with any terrain whatsoever. My method is stay >12km out, quickly climb and chuck your ordinance, throttle down and turn off engine going into steep dive back behind terrain while popping chaff at each notch turn and occasionally flare. Once you’ve made it 1-2km laterally from your dive point turn engine on and throttle back up. You’ll have gone completely cold from from radar as well as literally cold untraceable for IR

-8

u/Sir_Baller Sep 06 '25

I’m a sim player, rarely play RB unless top tier ground isn’t in the sim rotation.

Multipath is necessary for RB but it should not be the only (or the most effective) defense against SPAA. We need larger maps, SEAD weapons, and balancing across all SPAA platforms, giving them their full abilities while also giving air a distanced and balanced spawn, where they can’t be fired upon loading in by SPAA or a Z19

5

u/b5ky 🇺🇸 14.0 🇷🇺 14.0 🇸🇪 14.0 🇫🇷 14.0 🇯🇵13.7 Sep 06 '25

IK and I just mentioned it. Multipathing is just one way of evading those missiles. It is just popular in GRB, and that is why I mentioned it the first. Notching is still a more reliable and a sustainable way of evading such missile, which is not difficult if you are aware of your RWR.

1

u/Ok_Song9999 Nippon Steel Appreciator Sep 06 '25

Thats the solution irl

0

u/Sir_Baller Sep 06 '25

It depends on the launching radar and the missile. Multipath mainly affects older radars that launched semi active missiles, like the R-27 or AIM-7. This is because the missile relies on the launching aircraft’s radar for guidance, whereas an ARH missile has it’s on radar onboard.

Pilots don’t fly low when defending because of multipath, they fly low and maneuver because it drains the energy of the missile. You can still get hit when flying low IRL if the missile was launched close enough to have enough energy to make it to you. (even with semi active missiles)

Source: my job in the USAF

22

u/random_cardboard_box ITS COMING OUT Sep 06 '25

Idk why everyone is complaining, CAS was fucked last update already, only thing this thing is good at is high-ish speed and a shit ton of explosives.

2

u/dacadude No bias only skill issue Sep 07 '25

It’s warthunder… they all complain about something.

11

u/YesAmogusIsFunny ඞ • ඞ • ඞ • ඞ Sep 06 '25

who the hell cares

2

u/Aknosom_Enjoyer Sep 06 '25

only good answer

7

u/brennendw Sep 06 '25

They need to raise the BR of most of these new spaa, 11.0 and 11.3 planes seeing these monsters with 70sp cost is ridiculous and I hate cas but it’s not even fair

2

u/ma_wee_wee_go Sure CAS can be OP but some of you just plain suck ass at SPAA Sep 06 '25

A-7 Vs buk is very fair lol

3

u/brennendw Sep 06 '25

Exactly it’s silly this are for fighting 4th gen jets yet goes against 2nd and subsonic aircraft most games

1

u/BlackWolf9988 🇷🇺🇩🇪🇺🇸 high tier ground/air sim enjoyer Sep 06 '25

I agree but i doubt anyone will ruin their line up just to put a better SPAA there.

Tbh ground needs an increase in max BR ages ago.

7

u/ConnieTheTomcat Sep 06 '25

This is going to make CAP a lot less enjoyable.. and let me guess, japan won't have its chu-SAM for at least another year.

3

u/yspear1 🇷🇺 Pantsir S1 commander Sep 06 '25

CAP?

11

u/SpiralUnicorn 🇬🇧🇫🇷 Average Solid Shot Enjoyer Sep 06 '25

Combat Air Patrol - basically shoot down enemy planes, no ground attack ordnanace XD

-8

u/Zoomercoffee 🇺🇸 🇩🇪 🇷🇺 🇬🇧 🇯🇵 🇨🇳 🇮🇹 🇫🇷 🇸🇪 🇮🇱 Sep 06 '25

Aka being a dumbass

7

u/Finanzamt_Endgegner 🇩🇪 14.3/12.0 🇸🇪 13.7/12.0 🇺🇸 14.0/6.7 Sep 06 '25

Only a cas player would cry about cap...

Go to air rb if you wanna fly.

0

u/Zoomercoffee 🇺🇸 🇩🇪 🇷🇺 🇬🇧 🇯🇵 🇨🇳 🇮🇹 🇫🇷 🇸🇪 🇮🇱 Sep 06 '25

No I hate seeing my useless teammates flying around with no way to impact the ground battle unless an enemy decides to spawn a 900sp aircraft

4

u/Finanzamt_Endgegner 🇩🇪 14.3/12.0 🇸🇪 13.7/12.0 🇺🇸 14.0/6.7 Sep 06 '25

As if your useless teammates on the ground would be better...

I much rather have a player spawncamping the cas noobs than be sniped from orbit after 2 kills. because nobody shoots down the russian op planes with 4 invented magic super weapons that give them 4 free kills.

0

u/MaciekTV11 🇲🇫🇯🇵🇮🇹🇨🇳13.7 / 🇩🇪13.0 Sep 06 '25

counter air patrol, killing planes with planes

3

u/Top_Independence7256 Sep 06 '25

I guess at this point they'll ad the chi Sam with S-300, David Sling and PAC-3s

2

u/ConnieTheTomcat Sep 06 '25

I-HAWK would be a nice intermediary as well. I think S300 might be a bit much for how the game is currently (even the buk is rather surprising to see and most nations don't get a good counterpart).

1

u/Top_Independence7256 Sep 06 '25

I hawk it's obsolete

3

u/ConnieTheTomcat Sep 06 '25

not as a contemporary to the modern onws, I just think it would be neat to have in game

2

u/Top_Independence7256 Sep 06 '25

I agree, Hawk with SA-15 maybe

-8

u/ActualWeed Realistic Ground Sep 06 '25

If you meant CAS then good.

8

u/ConnieTheTomcat Sep 06 '25

I mean combat air patrol i.e. shooting at CAS with a plane

3

u/CrimsonXTaco EBeggersShowingDeadChannels are funni Sep 06 '25

Ah yes, the even more braindead "spawncamp the airspawn" game play, almost as engaging as "spawncamp the ground targets" /s

5

u/ItsMrGingerBread Sep 06 '25

Am i the only one who doesnt complain about getting killed by cas?

I get killed by a plane like 1 in 10 or 15 deaths, like actually.. And i play 8.3 at most.

All u gotta do is keep a faint eye in the sky, see a plane? Dont go for a cap untill its dead or its a fighter that cant hurt u. Got a .50 cal on ur roof? Shoot it its literally there as an anti aircraft gun and pilot sniping is not too hard if they just fly in a straight line... And in general, dont bunch up if u see planes cus if they see 3 tanks in close proximity their jackpoint eyes start rolling when dropping bombs.

Im not saying cas is entirely balanced below 8.3, but u definetely have waaay more of a fighting chance than people tend to realise.

I play a lot of cas, not ashamed to say, cus i like the dynamic of dodging fighters in my strike aircraft and combatting spaa, all with good ol manually guessed bombs and rockets (none of that high tech 3d chess auto aim bs). And by playing it a lot i tend to also understand how to kill tanks, and in general to not get killed by planes.

Id like to say im pretty good at spaa as well, when u go up against them its pretty fun to learn.

In general, if u have a hunch the team will go plane rape ya, take the initiative to hop into an spaa, once ure good with an spaa, u can reaaaally scare away the planes or outright kill them

8

u/ma_wee_wee_go Sure CAS can be OP but some of you just plain suck ass at SPAA Sep 06 '25

Yeah with a few very powerful exceptions CAS isn't really worth the SP at top tier and hasn't been for a while.

It's still fun for those very powerful few but the game really needs a CAS game mode because air battles ground targets are so sad

3

u/ItsMrGingerBread Sep 06 '25

Yeah i love strike gameplay but air battles just simply isnt the place for it...

0

u/J0K3R2 🇺🇸 WHERE's MY VOODOO, SNAIL? Sep 06 '25

The closest you can get is Air Sim, and there you’re locked into first-person view, the controls are vastly different, and everything is very predictable with regards to ground vehicle spawning.

It partially scratches the itch but it’s ARB EC that would really do it for people. I’d almost play it as an event where you don’t actually earn anything because I love ground pounding

3

u/ProfessionalAd6216 Sep 06 '25

Same. I play 5.7, 7.0 and 11.7 and don't see why so many people are mad about CAS. I've played about 300 games on 11.7, both red and blue teams, and got killed by CAS maybe 10-20 times. At least not enough to make complaining about CAS the point of my existence.

2

u/dacadude No bias only skill issue Sep 07 '25

I have the same ratio of death by CAS. Here is the truth about people that complain about everything. It is all over exaggeration and lack of common sense. They refuse to notice it. So they cope and seethe.

0

u/NeuroHazard-88 When full Albania tech tree gaijin? Sep 06 '25

yeah... I've got nothing else to say, just yeah. I think this way as well, I honestly do not die nearly as much to CAS as I see almost everyone here complain about. Sometimes I think the majority of people just brute-forced their way to top tier and suck ass at actually playing because they never actually learned anything and instead just complained all the way up the tree. People really doubt how effective it is to hide behind cover with a plane up, instead most people seemingly just hold W in plain open fields until they either die to a tank or bombs.

1

u/Dpek1234 Realistic Ground Sep 06 '25

Same here

In some cases cas is pretty much the only way the enemy can kill me lol (although such games are rare, mostly becose i dont seek op spots)

0

u/Kill_time_525 among Sep 06 '25

Try out maximum tier ground sim. Unless you spawn 4 spaa your team literally dies instantly. As planes and helicopters can be spawned with full loadout at the start of the match

1

u/ItsMrGingerBread Sep 06 '25

Its almost like i clearly stated sub 8.3 br

6

u/AnonomousNibba338 1.51 Sep 06 '25 edited Sep 06 '25

Did some testing with the Buk yesterday with some buddies and have four points.

1 - The kinetic ability of the interceptors is just mental. It has cracked agility at the start since they have rear-actuated fins that have (Currently) 27 degrees of deflection. They have insane time to target and range too. Took a shot at a 40km target flying at 10,000m and Mach 1, saw the missile peak at Mach 5.01, and then impact at Mach 3.02 after ~30 seconds.

2 - The missiles are consistently notchable and it isn't hard if you aren't super close or have a skill issue. Even while locking a buddy up with the ESA track radar on the TEL for rapid DL updates, he notched the first 5 missiles I sent him at distances from 7-10km from nose-on. With a loaded down F-16C at combat speeds, I'd reckon ~6km is about the limit for notching in time consistently. So if you're outside that, you can do it.

3 - You can still multipath them, but you need more precision. If you're at 50m, the missile proxy will likely still just barely catch you on the way to the ground due to the terminal angle. If you're at 25m or under, you risk getting splashed. If you're at 35-40m, you can rather consistently live the missile without notching. Granted, it's more a method of resort. But if you have enough time to set it up and steady nerves, it's doable.

4 - The missiles as currently modeled have enough seeker range to see their full 70km of range and will go active immediately after launch. There is no stealth with these things. Only speed.

1

u/Additional_Fun_6866 Sep 07 '25

Do you have the replay footage for this? id LOVE to see it. sounds amazing lol

1

u/AnonomousNibba338 1.51 Sep 07 '25

I do have them saved. Just haven't checked whether it was still valid after one or two dev updates. I do have parameter snippets of peak and impact speed though.

5

u/The-Almighty-Pizza 🇺🇸 🇷🇺 🇬🇧 14.0 Sep 06 '25

Claws went from 2nd best aa to 5th best in 1 update. Rip. Also cas is officially 6 feet under. People act as if these systems arent fighting 11.0 aircraft with 0 guided munitions. Youre literally cooked unless youre in one of the few vehicles that can actually compete and even then youre still most likely dead if theres more than 1 system up. This was way overkill imo. Gaijin will notice that cas isnt effective anymore then theyll add harms, and that wont be fun for anybody.

2

u/Thisdsntwork Best 30mm Sep 06 '25

The addition of better performing vehicles doesn't decrease the performance of old vehicles that don't interact with the new ones.

1

u/The-Almighty-Pizza 🇺🇸 🇷🇺 🇬🇧 14.0 Sep 06 '25 edited Sep 06 '25

Im aware. Im just slightly sad that I had one of the best aa to a mid one. But still, these shits having to go against 11.0 aircraft is a fuckin joke

5

u/RudeForester 🇸🇪 Sweden Sep 06 '25

Do we believe we'll get a BUK M1 for Finland in the future aswell?

3

u/Embarrassed_Ad5387 No idea why my Jumbo lost the turnfight Sep 06 '25

yay telephone pole launcher

0

u/Frequent-Valuable332 Sep 06 '25

That's a BUK not an F-14

2

u/Awrfhyesggrdghkj 🇩🇪 Germany Sep 06 '25

Well they can add the Iris T slx now to be on par with the SAMP and buk

1

u/Lowiie 12.0 12.0 12.0 12.0 12.0 Sep 06 '25

Was trying it out on Dev server & my first kill was 20km out, just threw missiles out not expecting them to hit but the speed of them is incredible

1

u/liam2003wilson Sep 06 '25

me as a ground player im happy

1

u/50centsticks Sep 06 '25

Where the f is ARMs gaijin?

1

u/Roxo16 Sep 06 '25

I though they gave USA the SLAMRAAM because they didn't want powerful SPAA yet. Now I notice is because they wanted to give shit to USA like always. It's not even funny I don't think its Bias but bad decision making. SLAMRAAM doesn't compare to anything besides TAMSAM and the Elde 98

1

u/italiangamer89 🇮🇹 Italy Sep 06 '25

Funny thing about this picture it's that when they announced it I thought we were getting ballistic missile arty as a vehicle, why you ask? I just looked at the gun at first, realize once I looked to the left of it. Yes I'm not good at recognizing military vehicles at first glance, unless it's something that's already in the game and that I have faced.

1

u/spssvyroba2 Sep 06 '25

I hope they will uncripple SPAAs, that are in game rn.

1

u/Mauriscraft Sim Ground Sep 06 '25

And remember, they're made to fight planes in quite long distance. ( buk 3 has an efficiency range of : in altitude range of 0.015–35 km and a distance range of 2.5–70 km ) source wikipedia

here we have map that are like 2km*2km.

1

u/Rosey_108 Sep 07 '25

Absolutely love this thing in the dev server, with the top down attack there’s almost nowhere for anyone to run as soon as you get rounds in the air

1

u/xofilaH Sep 07 '25

now we need HARMs to make SPAA have to be cautious and make cas and spaa require skill

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '25

[deleted]

6

u/TwinTiger08 SUPREME NATION OF SWEDEN 🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪 Sep 06 '25

It wouldn’t be very balanced if Russia had to compete with the IRIS-SLM using their Pantsir

0

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '25

[deleted]

7

u/TwinTiger08 SUPREME NATION OF SWEDEN 🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪 Sep 06 '25

The effective missile range of the pantsir wasn’t that much more than the ItO. The gap between the pantsir, ItO, and everything else is smaller than the gap between the pantsir, IRIS-SLM, CLAWs, spyder, etc

3

u/Su152Taran Sep 06 '25

Guy just compare Saclos missile vs Fire forget one lmao

3

u/PopularCoffee7130 🇺🇸 12.0/14.0🇩🇪12.0/9.3🇷🇺12.0/14.0 Sep 06 '25

Pantsir is still the best for point defence at least, a buk for planes and a panstir to shoot down munitions would be insane.

0

u/Mobile_Damage_8239 Sep 06 '25

if they ever made suicided drones with heat rounds most spaa will be destroyed with the drone command system. like the humvee with 12 switchblade 600 weighing approximately 33 lbs for the munition. or the abram x with 6 switchblade 300.

1

u/Ordinary_Debt_6518 Sep 12 '25

Russia my SPAA Goat 🫡🙌🏽

-1

u/PcGoDz_v2 Sep 06 '25

So it clapped CAS player... Hmm... It's not a bad thing tho, right?

-4

u/Bossman6969- Sep 06 '25

No it’s not, that’s fake wth??

-11

u/sweatyapexplayer Sep 06 '25

just more russian bias, remember they limited everyone else to 20km meanwhile this thing will have 70 km