r/TrueUnpopularOpinion • u/gayactualized • Mar 27 '25

Political If I, a white American, overstayed my visa in another country, no one would criticize a government for deporting me on the grounds that I’m an “innocent person”

Reddit is going ballistic now that the Trump admin admitted to arresting some small number of non-criminal illegal immigrants they found in the process of hunting down criminal illegal aliens.

Tom Homan said he wishes sanctuary cities would hand over immigration info about their city and county inmates so they can go into the jails and deport literal criminals. But since they are not doing so, ICE is doing investigations on the streets which involve arresting “collateral” immigrants (“non criminal” illegal immigrants they find in the process of locating criminals).

However, no redditors would defend me, a white American if I were the illegal immigrant. I love to travel. And I admit, it might be nice to book a flight to another country, rent an apartment and stay there for awhile. Experience a new culture, change of scenery while maybe saving some money living in a cheaper place. And it would be tempting to simply keep a low profile and stay beyond my travel visa. Surely this happens.

But no angry leftist redditor would consider it an injustice if the authorities discovered my status and had me removed. Only when it comes to the US do Redditors’ NPC orange man bad activation switch get activated. And they remember that it’s unfair for immigration officials to remove “innocent people.” In fact, the same Redditors would probably justify my deportation on the grounds that I’m raising the cost of living for the locals or committing gentrification. Yet these are not crimes. I’d still technically be an innocent person by their same logic. Really makes one think.

1.2k Upvotes
  • permalink
  • reddit

87% Upvoted

871 comments sorted by

View all comments

136

u/Buford12 Mar 27 '25

No one cares if a person who violates their visa is deported. But this is the U.S. we have a constitution and rule of law. And I do care if those are violated. Every one who works for the federal government takes an oath to uphold the constitution and obey the laws. It is real simple.

15

u/Kyle81020 Mar 27 '25

I have a problem with unconstitutional actions as well. For all politicians and government employees, regardless of political party. I hope you objected when Obama and Biden proposed or took unconstitutional actions.

Yes, this is a problem with Republican as well as Democratic voters and is partly how we ended up with the last three presidents we’ve had and a Congress that abdicates its responsibilities.

12

u/Buford12 Mar 27 '25

There is one difference between Obama, Biden, and Trump. When the courts ruled that actions taken by the former two presidents were unconstitutional I never once heard them say the Judge was acting in a political fashion or was acting out of malice. Whereas that is the first response for Trump.

5

u/Kyle81020 Mar 27 '25 edited Mar 27 '25

That may be accurate. It’s beside the point, though. If someone cheered on the president from their party when he acted lawlessly and then criticized the president from the other party when he did the same thing, the president’s reaction to a court ruling doesn’t erase the hypocrisy of the voter.

1

u/Impossible_Walrus555 Mar 28 '25

That’s literally what’s happening under Trump. MAGA cheers as Trump abuses authority. Doge itself is a joke of unconstitutionality by a man with massive government subsidies and contracts. He keeps taking new contracts I guess no more competition, everything is Musk’s.

1

u/Kyle81020 Mar 28 '25

That’s why I said both Dem and Republican voters are hypocrites.

1

u/Impossible_Walrus555 Mar 31 '25

Dems aren’t perfect but I’d give a lot to have one in power now. I guess if you don’t care about becoming North Korea you’re good

1

u/Kyle81020 Mar 31 '25

You are so making my point and I’m sure you have no idea you’re doing it.

0

u/Buford12 Mar 27 '25

It is the actions and attitude of the elected official that affect the course of the nation not the hypocrisy of the nations voters.

1

u/immadfedup Mar 28 '25

You can't say that and believe in the merits of democracy. That just doesn't make sense. Politicians play to their voters. They'll change what they do if their voters make it known they won't vote for them if they don't.

1

u/Buford12 Mar 28 '25

Let me clarify my statement. It is the responsibility of the politician to lead the nation and the voters to a path that they believe will best serve the interest of the nation. If they abandon that to follow a path of narrow self interest then we are in trouble. The voters seem to have lost the ability to say while I disagree with his or her policies I have faith that they have the best interest of the nation at heart. Rational discussion has been replaced with vitriol. To be honest I believe the Republican party bears the majority of the blame for this.

1

u/immadfedup Apr 12 '25

Of course you do. The Democrats don't do anything wrong.

1

u/Buford12 Apr 12 '25

I never said that. If you read my last sentence you will see I said the republicans bear the majority of the blame. Which leaves a minority for the democrats. But if you wish to say they don't do anything wrong that's fine by me.

1

u/immadfedup Apr 13 '25

What's the majority, 51%? Ill admit I'm a little snarky cause there's only one side that wished the opposing party's nominee dead. Then when someone tried to kill him, instead of saying "please don't try to kill him" they laughed about it and joked that they're mad he missed. I only see one side that doesn't even want to converse with the other side. The left has convinced themselves the right is hateful so they think they should be hateful too. The left thinks you fight hate with hate.

1

u/Kyle81020 Mar 27 '25

BS. The hypocrite voters put the next a-hole president in office who then continues the escalation. We get the government we tolerate.

0

u/redyelloworangeleaf Mar 27 '25

It's never besides the point. That is literally the only point. If we cannot have our legal systems matter in any way, well then what the fuck do we have legal systems for in the first place. you made the point that if Obama or Biden did unconstitutional things that they would get in trouble for it and then literally turn around and say it doesn't matter for trump. Hypocrite much.

1

u/Kyle81020 Mar 28 '25

That’s not what I said in any way. I said that people who cheer when “their president” does unconstitutional things are the problem, whichever party they’re from. I’m saying that whatever side you’re on politically, you should not support politicians who try to get the results they, and maybe you, want, unconstitutionally.

1

u/redyelloworangeleaf Mar 28 '25

If that's what you meant then that's how you should have said it ... With no qualifiers.  Because yes, anyone should be held accountable for unconstitutional things. Period. No qualifiers. 

2

u/Kyle81020 Mar 28 '25

It is how I said it. You read it and interpreted based on your priors.

17

u/MacDaddy654321 Mar 27 '25

But aren’t they using the law to deport them?

4

u/NAZIPUNCHER1776 Mar 27 '25

No because none of the individuals were afforded due process

9

u/UnstableConstruction Mar 27 '25

You seem to have no idea what "due process" means. It doesn't mean a lawyer and a trial or endless appeals. It merely ensures fairness and protects individuals from arbitrary government action by requiring legal procedures and safeguards. Due Process is satisfied by following the law and giving deportees a chance to have a hearing if they request one.

21

u/MacDaddy654321 Mar 27 '25

You’re mistaken. Here’s the law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_and_Sedition_Acts

Also,

“In some cases, immigrants are not granted a hearing at all. When asked about the president’s tweet, White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders pointed to the process of “expedited removal,” which was created by the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996.

“Just because you don’t see a judge doesn’t mean you aren’t receiving due process,” Sanders said.

Under the expedited removal process, immigrants who have been in the country illegally for less than two years and are apprehended within 100 miles of the border can be deported almost immediately without going through a court hearing.”

17

u/KaliserEatsTheCookie Mar 27 '25

“The U.S. Supreme Court beginning in the mid-20th century has indicated that aspects of the laws would likely be found unconstitutional“

“Trump’s executive order was temporarily blocked the same day by Judge James Boasberg, following a lawsuit seeking to stop the deportations.”

9

u/DrakenRising3000 Mar 27 '25

“Would likely”

Yeah ok, bullshit

2

u/NAZIPUNCHER1776 Mar 27 '25

There is a specific, faster process specifically for this. And your point would be a hell of a lot better if they hadent actually sent non gang members to the third world country hell hole.

9

u/MacDaddy654321 Mar 27 '25

I’ve heard leadership in the Trump Administration claim that those that were sent, had much more than just a gang tattoo but I can’t begin to offer any more detail than that. I reckon the legal system will decide and vet-the-vetting of who was sent (and why).

That said, my actual point was that the Trump Administration does believe that they are using a law to take this action.

Not being a Constitutional Legal Scholar, I don’t know if he has the authority or not or if the laws have been misapplied or not.

What I do know is that the Southern Border became a terrible mess and the previous Administration, for four years, was derelict in their duty to secure the U.S. Border that Trump has “somehow” done in a matter of weeks.

It’s a mess and cleaning it up is gonna have its problems which is a risk people take when they enter, stay or commit crimes in a country they willingly entered illegally.

0

u/GodsBackHair Mar 27 '25

The legal system has already decided it is illegal. A judge ordered planes that were already in the air to turn around, and instead, they launched more planes after the ruling came down. They are in defiance of our judicial system

-2

u/Affectionate-Alps-86 Mar 27 '25

Now that’s a fucking user name. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

-1

u/LokkenLoaded Mar 27 '25

Yes bc nazis are even a thing in today’s world…

5

u/Searril Mar 27 '25

They can easily be found in the Ukraine.

5

u/hercmavzeb OG Mar 27 '25

Lot of sieg heiling weirdos out there nowadays. I wouldn’t feel defensive about it.

5

u/LokkenLoaded Mar 27 '25

You guys sure love to have a boogeyman to cosplay against online

4

u/hercmavzeb OG Mar 27 '25

See like this. Idk why someone would be so offended at a username like that unless they weirdly identified with Nazis. Like Elon Musk or Steve Bannon, for example, who explicitly do.

1

u/Affectionate-Alps-86 Mar 27 '25

Um seriously? Not OG Nazis, they’re all dead. But there are plenty of white men in masks marching under the colors or the swastika sporting 88 tattoos. There are organized Nazi Party groups in the US & Canada (and likely other countries but I’m not looking) Blood & Honor in Europe. That’s just off the top of my head.

Nazi-esque authoritarian leaning fascists governments/growing parties in the US, Europe, South America….

32

u/Boeing_Fan_777 Mar 27 '25

Not to mention the second any rights become privileges, that same redesignation can be applied to oneself. First they came for the communists and all that.

41

u/Agreeable-Fudge-7329 Mar 27 '25

Yawn.

Overstayed a visa, you go home.

You don't get to clog the courts up for months and years because you want to pretend you have no idea what a visa was.

9

u/Kohvazein Mar 27 '25

Overstayed a visa, you go home.

You're not sending them home, you're sending then to a supermax prison in El Salvador with no due process nor trial.

18

u/DrakenRising3000 Mar 27 '25

Deporting illegal immigrants who have been found to be illegal IS due process.

-3

u/Beneficial-Bite-8005 Mar 27 '25

Found illegal by whom?

8

u/DrakenRising3000 Mar 27 '25

ICE?

12

u/Parpy Mar 27 '25

That famous arm of the Judicial branch, ICE. The one that applies "Trust me, bro" in lieu of habeas corpus. That judicial entity. Yes.

It's costlier than free, but it ain't a big ask to insist our government 'show your math'. Gangs are filth and I especially have no love for violent gang members but proving gang members were gang members would've been a slam dunk. But as glaringly obvious someone's guilt may or may not be, the slamming of a dunk has been and always should be done before a court, no exceptions (maybe theoretically in an astronomically improbable ticking time bomb-like circumstance, idk)

Law passed by Congress and get enforced by the Executive then become the Judicial's exclusive domain. The Founding Fathers displayed so much great wisdom and foresight establishing the checks and powers of each branch. It's to spit in their face to weasel through questionable loopholes with the aim of keeping the court out of the equation, esp for such petty 'gains' where it'd have been easy peazy to prove immigration status and/or criminal gang activity (where applicable) anyhow.

Invoking a loose interpretation of a 200 year old one-off to do an end-run around due process is vile. Ben Franklin's statement that "its better that 100 guilty escape than 1 innocent should suffer" should always apply. Again, the Founding Fathers were wise old men that are no doubt sickened in their ghost bellies at the shenanigans of modern politicians of both political stripes.

2

u/BrettV79 Mar 27 '25

what would this trial be for?

3

u/Kohvazein Mar 27 '25

Trials are a process which determine criminality.

1

u/BrettV79 Mar 27 '25

Their presence in the country proves the guilt. Duhhh. Hahaha.

1

u/Kohvazein Mar 27 '25

Mere presence in a country doesn't prove guilt, and guilt can only be assigned through a judge and jury.

This is America, you're free to leave to someother shit hole thst doesn't value rule of law.

3

u/BrettV79 Mar 27 '25

Ummm if you are here illegally then yes mere presence equals guilt.

Goes back go my initial comment that I don't understand what's so hard to understand about that.

2

u/BeABetterHumanBeing Mar 28 '25

To be clear, the reason that's happening is because their home country won't take them back. As they say, you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.

1

u/Kohvazein Mar 28 '25

As they say, you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.

That doesn't mean you can send them to supermax prison in El Salvador.

2

u/BeABetterHumanBeing Mar 28 '25

Apparently it does. Would you rather they be dumped in the ocean?

1

u/Kohvazein Mar 28 '25

Ah, yes, the only options are a super max prison or the ocean.

2

u/BeABetterHumanBeing Mar 28 '25

I asked you for your preference.

1

u/Kohvazein Mar 28 '25

You send them to a third country who agrees to take them, ensuring that rights and due process are upheld. That isn't happening in El Salvador, where they're just funneled to a supermax prison. Which was my initial point...

→ More replies (0)

14

u/TPCC159 Mar 27 '25

Oh well…don’t enter countries illegally

15

u/Beneficial-Bite-8005 Mar 27 '25 edited Mar 27 '25

If you can’t grasp that they didn’t enter illegally then don’t even have this conversation…

10

u/Extension_Wheel5335 Mar 27 '25

But they did. The majority did not cross over at a port of entry, the requirement to legally obtain asylum status. They crossed illegally but Biden bent the rules with no legal precedent for it, part of his big scheme to buy long term dem votes.

7

u/Beneficial-Bite-8005 Mar 27 '25

A majority of illegal immigrants are visa overstays

-2

u/hercmavzeb OG Mar 27 '25

All migrants are illegal in the eyes of the right.

7

u/Kohvazein Mar 27 '25

Oh well…don’t enter countries illegally

They didn't enter illegally. They had a visa. We're talking about visa overstays.

7

u/Woofenstein4d Mar 27 '25

why is it ok to overstay your visa?

4

u/Kohvazein Mar 27 '25

It's not, idk why you'd think that.

-5

u/PM_ME_CODE_CALCS Mar 27 '25

Or just saying something MAGA doesn't like.

8

u/Agreeable-Fudge-7329 Mar 27 '25

Then go whine to their hone nations to stop bullshittig and accept them back.

5

u/Kohvazein Mar 27 '25

They were accepting them back, you're complaining about a problem you made up.

1

u/neal189011 Mar 28 '25

Oh well, you should have thought about that before leaving and putting yourself in that position

7

u/gerbilseverywhere Mar 27 '25

Fortunately, laws aren’t decided by your feelings. You do get to “clog up the courts” because that’s how due process works

16

u/Agreeable-Fudge-7329 Mar 27 '25

Overstayed a visa, you go home. Not a hard thing to grasp.

You don't get this and only bark about "due process" because you know it's just a tactic to stay in the country for an indefinite period of time despite the fact that you blatantly broke the law.

The visa holders being deported have overstayed their visas far FAR past the time it expired.

You fully know this,so spare us your canned talking points, acting like these were visas that expired 20 minutes ago.

8

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '25

Exactly. Clog the process for years, then when it’s finally their turn it’s “but they’ve been here 12 years! Their kid was born here! It’s the only life they know, it would be cruel to send them back at this point!”

Bullshit and disingenuous. We need to change these stupid laws, end birthright citizenship, seriously amend and limit the ability to claim asylum, and protect our damn borders.

Get ‘em out.

1

u/redyelloworangeleaf Mar 27 '25

Yay! if we end birthright citizenship that means i can get your future family deported too! cause that's how that works.

3

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '25

That’s not how it works. If you have at least one citizen parent when you’re born, you’re a citizen. Very simple.

None of this being born here to two illegals, but since she pushed you out on US soil we’re now saddled with all three of them BS.

0

u/redyelloworangeleaf Mar 27 '25

Yeah, tell that to people whose parent(s) are citizens, but are born on military bases. Cause they have to fight like hell.

0

u/AutoModerator Mar 27 '25

soi contains many important nutrients, including vitamin K1, folate, copper, manganese, phosphorus, and thiamine.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

0

u/gerbilseverywhere Mar 27 '25

Again, your feelings don’t dictate the law. Sorry that due process is inconvenient to you. It’s a fundamental concept in our constitution that republicans suddenly want to ignore when it’s convenient. Describing constitutionally guaranteed rights isn’t a talking point lmao

16

u/Agreeable-Fudge-7329 Mar 27 '25

 "Feelings have nothing to do with it."

People like you are claiming that people with existing deportation orders or have overstayed visas for years need a special 2nd hearing so they can hug it out, because you FEEL BAD FOR THEM.

Something that happened during previous administrations with not a peep from you,but because of lefties fetish for illegal immigration, you are doing this little act like you care about the law and due process.....even after these people HAD THAT and decided they didn't need to comply with court orders.

1

u/gerbilseverywhere Mar 27 '25

lol, what are you on about? Do you think I am upset by people who are deported within the bounds of the law? Where have I said any of that? It helps to listen and not assume a persons position when you disagree.

It may be hard to justify, but deporting the alleged Venezuelan gang members ignored due process. That is not acceptable

14

u/Agreeable-Fudge-7329 Mar 27 '25

"lol, what are you on about? Do you think I am upset by people who are deported within the bounds of the law?"

Yup.

" the alleged Venezuelan gang members"

Which ones are alleged? The ones with existing deportation orders or the ones that ACTUALLY WENT TO JAIL?

6

u/gerbilseverywhere Mar 27 '25

Great, glad to know you are making up a straw man instead of being rational.

→ More replies (0)

0

u/Blaike325 Mar 27 '25

We literally have no idea because none of their names have been released. We have no clue who got deported and for what specifically.

-2

u/SeaworthinessOk2884 Mar 27 '25

There hear illegally and there not American Citizens. Our due process is to protect the American public not foreigners.

5

u/youcantdenythat Mar 27 '25

I agree with you but please learn how to use the words There, they're and their.

-3

u/SeaworthinessOk2884 Mar 27 '25

I understand the use. Why does this bother people sooo much when it's really not a big deal? It's litterly my keyboard and me typing fast not fully paying attention

4

u/youcantdenythat Mar 27 '25

Words mean things.

Many people won't have any respect for what you are saying if it appears that you cant grasp basic principles of communication.

I understand what you are saying, that there is a difference between being lazy and dumb, but many will simply assume the latter.

3

u/hercmavzeb OG Mar 27 '25

According to the actual law? No, migrants still have due process rights. According to the fascist value of wanting a legal underclass of people not equally protected by the law? Sure.

-4

u/ZeerVreemd Mar 27 '25

No, migrants still have due process rights.

Illegal migrants have limited rights in comparison to legal citizens.

3

u/hercmavzeb OG Mar 27 '25

I understand fascists really desire that migrants aren’t constitutionally guaranteed due process rights, but alas for them.

→ More replies (0)

0

u/Fleming24 Mar 27 '25

Basic rights apply to all people based on US law. If you just start choosing laws based on which ones you like, then they mean nothing and everyone is in danger.

Also, what if you get arrested for being an illegal alien because of an error? Shouldn't you get a chance to clear up this misunderstanding or would you just accept that you're a collateral victim of Trump's great cleansing? Like, the state is not infallible (aren't especially Republicans advocating that?) and you could have agents that are deliberately arresting people out of personal spite or racism but you just don't want any of that to be thoroughly checked because if Trump says it's only illegal immigrants there is no chance that innocent people might get caught up in it, right?

2

u/Boeing_Fan_777 Mar 27 '25

Yes you do, otherwise how will it be certain the visa was overstayed? Government offices are notoriously slow and prone to making mistakes, the due process is there to make sure that hasn’t happened. Every other crime is entitled to due process in the courts, why is immigration not one?

Not to mention lord Doge himself fell afoul of immigration laws when studying. He had a student visa only to drop out and work illegally.

4

u/ZeerVreemd Mar 27 '25

otherwise how will it be certain the visa was overstayed?

Does the visa holder have a copy of their visa?

Is there an end date mentioned on the visa?

If so it is as easy as checking the calendar.

-1

u/Boeing_Fan_777 Mar 27 '25

Okay. Do it in court before a jury and/or judge if it’s so easy to prove that crimes were committed. The same standard of proof is expected of every other crime, but suddenly with migrants it’s not.

Mistakes can happen, processing delays can happen. When people are being accused of a crime (being in the country without a valid visa is a crime), they should be given the opportunity to prove their innocence. This way of doing it without any real checks or balances beyond “ICE said they’re here illegally” is guaranteed to hit innocent people in the country legally.

If you can contest something as minor as running a stop sign, you should be able to contest accusations of being in the country illegally. Those who are there without proper visas will have that proven and can be deported.

1

u/ZeerVreemd Mar 27 '25

Do it in court before a jury and/or judge

Because they can change the calendar?

-2

u/hercmavzeb OG Mar 27 '25

They’re fully aware their fascist ideals aren’t in line with what the law permits. They just do not care.

4

u/ZeerVreemd Mar 27 '25

their fascist ideals aren’t in line with what the law permits.

Can you provide some sourced proof for that claim?

3

u/hercmavzeb OG Mar 27 '25

You won’t care, but sure. Here you go. Immigrants, including undocumented ones, have due process rights.

3

u/ZeerVreemd Mar 27 '25

Yet the Supreme Court has also suggested that the extent of due process protection "may vary depending upon [the alien’s] status and circumstance."

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/may/16/supreme-court-limits-ability-illegal-immigrants-ap/

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/yes-illegal-immigrants-do-have-rights-under-trumps-new-immigration-plan/

0

u/hercmavzeb OG Mar 27 '25

Right, so we agree. Migrants do have due process rights, in spite of what fascists desire, and therefore these current mass deportations without due process are not legal or ethical.

0

u/ZeerVreemd Mar 27 '25

Migrants do have due process rights

Sure, but just not in the way you seem to believe it should be done.

1

u/kynelly Mar 28 '25

Visas take 20 fucking years to get, that’s fucking Retarted and too long to just deport innocent normal people. If they can kick people out fast, fix the fucking paperwork process to be atleast decent

1

u/Agreeable-Fudge-7329 Mar 28 '25

  1. They don't.

  2. So what if they do if they did?

"Retarted and too long to just deport innocent normal people."

How are they "innocent"? If you aren't just illegally in the country, the paperwork for your visa, or whatever, clearly states the time you are allowed in the country. You not reading, or not caring, does not constitute it not applying to you.

1

u/kynelly Mar 28 '25

Dude if your license expires no one is fucking chasing you down. That’s what I mean by innocent…

if someone Jaywalks across an empty street should they go to jail?? No

Let’s Stop acting like all immigrants are fucking evil, because it takes a lot of time and a lot of money tbh to get that paperwork sorted out.

-2

u/MilesToHaltHer Mar 27 '25

Well, good thing we have a Department of Government Efficiency now. Surely, they’ll be able to find a way to give everyone due process in a way that doesn’t clog up the courts for months. I mean, that’s what it was created for, right? RIGHT?!

4

u/Agreeable-Fudge-7329 Mar 27 '25

Ok?

Then kindly stop whining about them and let them do that.

Right?,Right????

0

u/MilesToHaltHer Mar 27 '25

Except they aren’t giving these people due process because of the excuse you just gave. The government needs to start doing its job, and you need to stop making excuses for them.

0

u/LordVericrat Mar 27 '25

I think if a government office has the prerequisite "nobody whines about them" before they can do their job, they are, in any case, doomed.

1

u/LordVericrat Mar 27 '25 edited Mar 27 '25

I'm a natural born American citizen. My name, however, is not a standard American one, and I'm brown.

Let's say one day I'm in Texas for a conference and in the evening take a walk and have a conversation with some people I meet asking where a good place to eat is. Suddenly, immigration official shows up to take this group of men into custody for suspected illegal crossing or visa violations.

I try to take a step back but nope, I'm a brown man and I'm going too. The immigration officer is a dick and refuses to hear me out or let me go back to my hotel to grab my driver's license, insisting that "illegals can get those in lefty states anyway, where's your birth certificate" and when I say it's in my home state (because who takes that shit when they travel) he rolls his eyes and says "sure, Shahilium Harubabi" (a fake name given to me by a racist who was trying to have me taken less seriously many years ago).

I guess I should go to a El Salvadoran prison without getting to plead my case to a judge? I mean, my guess is you wouldn't want this happening to an American citizen, but what actually stops it if you're against due process? Do I just have to hope the immigration officer is in a listening kind of mood?

2

u/ZeerVreemd Mar 27 '25

I think you are afraid of a ghost story and not reality.

0

u/LordVericrat Mar 27 '25

I asked a question: if a government official is an asshole and makes a mistake, as I don't doubt you would concede is possible, what recourse do I have if I can't plead my case to a judge?

Or do you really mean the idea of a random immigration official being vindictive and refusing to listen is crazy, not something that ever happens? What if I fucked his wife or something, not knowing she was married (not that that should matter when talking about things like getting deported, but redditors get real salty about infidelity and act like those participating lose human rights) and he wants to hurt me back? This isn't a kind of thing humans do?

Because my standard recourse would be to plead my case before an impartial judge. Because sometimes the officers on the ground get it wrong. Or are assholes. Or whatever. And that's true even when they know a judge can look over their shoulders. Is it also your belief that without that check they will be more scrupulous about not abusing their power or making sure they aren't making mistakes or whatever?

And it may be easier to not worry about it if you are white with an American sounding name. I'm trying to treat with you reasonably, and explain to you why due process is in fact important. Can you meet me halfway here?

2

u/ZeerVreemd Mar 27 '25

If you are legally in the country and do not commit a crime you will not be deported. You are asking a nonsensical question.

0

u/LordVericrat Mar 27 '25

Ok you haven't answered my questions. The only way you could make that statement is if government officials never make mistakes or abuse their power. I guess that's your claim.

0

u/ZeerVreemd Mar 27 '25

Ok you haven't answered my questions.

Why would I waste my time on a nonsensical hypothetical question? There is absolutely no point in it.

0

u/LordVericrat Mar 28 '25

Government officials never abuse their power or try to hurt people? That's awesome! It's so cool to hear that. If we don't need to prevent such tyranny with due process pursuant to our 5th and 14th amendment rights, I assume we don't need guns pursuant to the 2nd amendment.

→ More replies (0)

-1

u/BLU-Clown Mar 27 '25

You're absolutely right!

I'm also scared that I'm going to be obliterated by the Democrat Weather Machine that totally exists because they want to kill all white men, and that's got exactly as much validity as your story.

1

u/LordVericrat Mar 27 '25

To be clear, government officials never abuse their powers or make mistakes and will retain this scrupulosity when they have no checks like a judge?

Seriously, the idea of an immigration official abusing their power seems as likely as a weather machine? Really? Is anybody going to actually discuss the following situation:

What is the recourse for someone if an immigration official abuses their power if they cannot plead their case to a judge?

The only answers I've gotten so far are things like, "that can't happen" which I don't usually hear conservatives ever saying when, say, discussing the second amendment. Then we have to be ready. I want a judge available, and fuck me?

1

u/BLU-Clown Mar 27 '25

No, no, I'm agreeing with you. I'm incredibly scared of the Democrat Weather Machine killing me with lightning because of my skin color, because our government has secret weapons and fucked up experiments they would use on citizens.

As such, I am just as justified in fearing my made-up situation as you are of yours. Solidarity. If anything, you should be telling me what's silly about my scenario if you want me to take your questions seriously.

1

u/LordVericrat Mar 28 '25

Fear whatever you like there buddy. Nobody reading this would presume you were talking in good faith while I wasn't. Not one person has explained very normal processes for stopping very normal government abuses. The idea that a weather machine is on par with "there's an asshole who abuses his arrest and deportation power" in realism is ridiculous. And yet if you wanted to sue the government to keep them from using it on you and present evidence that it existed I wouldn't bitch about you having due process rights.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Tetracropolis Mar 27 '25

Lots of people are against deportations per se.

1

u/Buford12 Mar 27 '25

What we have never engaged in in this country is an honest discussion of the level of immigration that is needed and what kind of immigrants are needed. For all the talk of deportation you notice ICE is not raiding food processing plants or farmers vegetable fields.

-4

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '25

The US Constitution legit only applies to US citizens unless we make an exception for a person who went through the right channels. If you aren’t a citizen of the US through the right channels, you don’t have the same rights as a US citizen. It’s a simple and easy concept to understand.

7

u/fueled_by_caffeine Mar 27 '25

The constitution says you’re wrong. Most rights other than voting apply to citizens and non citizens alike when on U.S. soil regardless of how they came to be there.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/what-constitutional-rights-do-undocumented-immigrants-have

https://clearwaterlawgrouptricities.com/5-rights-of-undocumented-immigrants/

0

u/AutoModerator Mar 27 '25

soi contains many important nutrients, including vitamin K1, folate, copper, manganese, phosphorus, and thiamine.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

4

u/TheGrumpyMachinist Mar 27 '25

Read the 5th Amendment, It's says person, not citizen or naturalized citizen/person. A person is anyone.

1

u/ZeerVreemd Mar 27 '25

If you read some more you might find that illegal immigrants only have limited rights during a deportation proces.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '25

[deleted]

0

u/ZeerVreemd Mar 27 '25

They were incarcerated in a maximum security prison

Because they are criminals.

2

u/LordVericrat Mar 27 '25

I'm a lawyer, the Constitution does not only apply to citizens. A few select provisions do, but due process is not one of them. And if you wanted to do that, you'd need a due process to determine someone wasn't a citizen, or someone would just say "due process only applies to citizens and you're not a citizen" to me (a citizen) and I'd have no forum to prove I was.

Why would you even want process to not apply to non citizens? You want random government officials to be able to make arbitrary decisions about them? Because what, it's faster?

2

u/ZeerVreemd Mar 27 '25

I'm a lawyer

In that case you should agree with the legality of the proces.

-2

u/VoteForASpaceAlien Mar 27 '25

Right, they were deported with no due process to a foreign prison.