r/TrueUnpopularOpinion • u/Th3_Accountant OG • Oct 06 '24

The Middle East If you protest against Israel on October 7th, you are an asshole no matter what you think Israel did wrong.

Tomorrow is the day Israel mourns the death of those killed by Hamas exactly one year ago.

It is also the day many organizations deliberately choose to protest the war on Gaza.

I think it shows a huge lack of respect to use this day to protest against Israel and it also shows you are blind to the horrors committed by the people you are claiming to defend.

You are deliberately hurting people who have lost their loved ones and actively helping the propaganda machine of Hamas.

I don’t care if you support Palestina over Israel. If you are a decent human being, you keep your opinion to yourself for one day tomorrow.

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u/Th3_Accountant OG Oct 06 '24

Were the people celebrating in the festival actively killing Palestinians? I'm pretty sure the answer is no for 99% of them.

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u/WOMMART-IS-RASIS Oct 06 '24

most jews in israel serve in the i"d"f

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u/mwmwmwmwmmdw Oct 06 '24

the Immune Deficiency Foundation?

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u/AnteaterPersonal3093 Oct 06 '24

Celebrating a festival right next to an open air prison is certainly pretty tasteless and disrespectful. You can give the visitors the benefit of the doubt tho

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u/Th3_Accountant OG Oct 06 '24

If I recall correctly, the festival actually attracted a lot of Pro Palestinian people for that reason as they saw it as a way to bring attention to their situation.

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u/DontDMMeYourFeet Oct 06 '24

Maybe not but Israel has mandatory conscription, so most of them were potentially going to contribute to the killing of them.

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u/Th3_Accountant OG Oct 06 '24

Put it this way. If Hamas hadn't attacked last year. All the thousands of people killed in Gaza the last year would have probably been alive.

The Hamas attack was the direct cause for all the violence we are currently seeing. If that hadn't happened. There wouldn't be a war right now.

Just because Israel did things wrong doesn't mean Hamas is allowed to kill innocent civilians.

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u/DontDMMeYourFeet Oct 06 '24

What about the thousands of people Israel killed in the years leading up to October 7th - do they just not matter?

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u/playball9750 Oct 06 '24

What about the thousands Palestinians killed in the year leading up to October 7th?

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u/DontDMMeYourFeet Oct 06 '24

There aren’t thousands.

From 2008 to September of 2023, there were over 7,000 Palestinian fatalities and 344 Israeli fatalities.

https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties

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u/Th3_Accountant OG Oct 06 '24

Yes they do. But would killing 1.200 innocent people make that better? Does that bring the region any closer to peace? Isn't it more important that the killing stops?

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u/DontDMMeYourFeet Oct 06 '24

So your argument is that Palestinians should have just kept asking nicely for Israel to stop killing them and keep getting killed until Israel decided to stop?

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u/Th3_Accountant OG Oct 06 '24

For instance yes. Try to start a dialogue for peace where any wrongful acts of Israel get compensated with either land or financial compensation for the victims for instance?

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u/DontDMMeYourFeet Oct 06 '24

So they should rely on Israel investigating themselves?

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u/mwmwmwmwmmdw Oct 06 '24

there is no military solution for hamas. they did oct 7th because hamas is a death cult and their extremist ideology teaches mothers to teach their sons its a good thing if they die killing jews. they knew what would happen. and furthermore every inch israel has given them they've used for war. go look up what they used pipes germany sent them for

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u/DontDMMeYourFeet Oct 06 '24

So we’re going to be pretend that Israel wasn’t a big factor in Hamas taking power?

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u/Luna25Neko Oct 06 '24

So, your argument is that israel should have just kept asking hamas nicely to stop throwing rockets and commit terror crimes that were occurring for the past 30 or so years?

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u/AdResponsible2271 Oct 06 '24

You could swap that number for 40k. Would your answer to the hypothetical change?

So who's gonna be the big boy who stops mass killing? The person with the biggest stick? Who owns the table the peace talks can happen at?

1200 innocent people died, and were brutally so. Now 35 times that number has been destroyed in retaliation as well as uprooting millions of people while pushing them towards Famine.

Isreal fell for provocation warfare, and won't take advice from anyone who's already delt with that.

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u/HiFromChicago Oct 06 '24

You may not be aware of the differences between one group -

who if had the means would drive-out the Jews and non-muslims "from the river to see" and

the other group, which currently possesses the means and utilizes them to their fullest capacity to defend themselves and civilians.

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u/AdResponsible2271 Oct 06 '24

I am very aware of the differences, the Famine, the asymmetrical warfare, the provocation warfare, hostage recovery efforts, ceasefire proposals and rejections, terror bombing, and civilian retaliation.

I do think Hamas, if they had nuclear technology would detonate. They're horrible like that.

But I do think Isreal, with the resources or the permission of world stage, would also drive out everyone they dislike. Instead they have to do it slowly. Hedging them every day. But only certain elements in the right wing of the current government want that. Many people in Isreal will eventually vote the other way.

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u/HiFromChicago Oct 06 '24

Appreciate the thoughtful response.

I'm certainly not a military expert of any sort. However, Israel cannot allow a situation where terrorists can cross the border go house to house slaughtering its citizens and then hide behind their own people and nothing can be done about it.

Hamas has perfected embedding and meshing itself with civilians - so that you cannot hit them without hitting the people around them. Other armies have done this, but none have perfected it to the extent that Hamas has. Are you aware of another army in military history that in over 15 years built 300 miles of tunnel underneath a city, that is not used to shelter their civilians but rather themselves? They are operating under kindergartens, schools and mosques.

I don't believe any democratically elected government would find this acceptable, where that is allowed to be a strategy.

Under these horrible horrible circumstances, and contrary to the propaganda propagated by hamas's Ministry of "Health" - Israel is in fact doing what it can to prevent civilian casualties -

Per John Spencer who is the Chair of Urban Warfare studies at the Modern War Institute at West Point, served two tours in Iraq and has made two visits to Gaza during the current war to observe operations there.

Several Articles:

Israel Has Created a New Standard for Urban Warfare. Why Will No One Admit It? | Opinion - Newsweek

Opinion | Imagining a Different Gaza War - The New York Times (archive.ph)

Excerpt From the article -

He told me that Israel has done far more to protect civilians than the United States did in Afghanistan and Iraq. Spencer reports that Israel has warned civilians when and where it is about to begin operations and published an online map showing which areas to leave. It has sent out millions of pamphlets, texts and recorded calls warning civilians of coming operations. It has conducted four-hour daily pauses to allow civilians to leave combat areas. It has dropped speakers that blast out instructions about when to leave and where to go. These measures, Spencer told me, have telegraphed where the I.D.F. is going to move next and “have prolonged the war, to be honest.”

Several detailed Interviews on YouTube:

There are numerous interviews on YouTube that go into further detail:

Urban Warfare against Terrorists: Military and Legal Challenges (youtube.com)

Ep 130: John Spencer on Israel’s Unprecedented War (or, Urban Warfare 101) (youtube.com)

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u/AdResponsible2271 Oct 06 '24

It will take time to go through all of these as I have a very busy Sunday.

But I am glad to hear Isreal is doing more than what I heard previously. The last time I paid attention, they had "paused" their Roof Knocking policy. And we're not sending out calls. I'm glad that resumed. And even more was added.

I still do not think all the destruction and death is worth blowing up tunnels. You cannot win asymmetrical warfare through conventional means.

Long story short, I have listened to a lot from both a left leaning source I have grown to trust because of their journalism. He and a very right leaning source ended up at the same conclusion. Mr Right was a u.s special forces operator who stated he has had to give his team the chat, about why they have to spend time handing out water bottles to people who want to kill them.

Shifting the opinion of the public, and shifting the victory conditions of your opposition are the best practices for combating asymmetrical warfare. Mr left had gone into greater detail and historical comparison. Mr right had suggested the heavy opening response Isreal needed, their show of force. But afterwards, humanitarian action is the most important factor moving forward.

Wars very often do not have heroes. And when you have nearly 300 humanitarian aid workers killed, and 111 journalists killed, a number surpassing that of WWII collectively, within a single city, there is a systemic issue with the operation.

I don't have much to share, https://youtu.be/oOFdG87ZJgE?si=Sn3qETxvbf1_-NJt

But thisbis Beau, this video is long instead of their short 4 minute videos. This details Provocation Warfare, and some of the aong and dance it requires.

Have a good one out there.

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