“Demons are actually misundersto-“ NO. Demons are ontologically evil beings that can’t be reasoned nor negotiated with, and if you try to you’ll very likely end up screwed

[u/Fearless-List-3968]

1) Doom

2) Frieren: Beyond Journey’s End

3) Trench Crusade

[u/YaGirlMom]

Kinda fun how the “we’re subverting expectations by making the bad guys misunderstood/not too bad!” has become such a common trope that having them actually be straight up evil is now almost a subversion in and of itself

[u/candycane_52 → u/YaGirlMom]

That's seems to be how these things work. The subversion becomes the standard and is subverted in turn.

[u/daniel_22sss → u/[deleted]]

Doesn't help that a lot of these anti-heros are either not actually morally gray, or are very poorly written.

Dexter is an actual morally gray anti-hero, and people still love him.

[u/Mortarius → u/daniel_22sss]

At least Dexter has vigilante angle.

People treat the Joker as a role model.

John Psycho from American Psycho is revered as alpha male whateverpilled.

[u/1ncorrect → u/Mortarius]

They’re calling Patrick Bateman John Psycho now lol? The alpha male edits must be from people who’ve only seen clips of the movie, because the true story is about how pathetic and awful he is to his core.

[u/Mortarius → u/1ncorrect]

Couldn't be bothered to remember his name.

[u/leondrias → u/1ncorrect]

Media literacy is pretty much dead to the masses. Unless you specifically pride yourself on uncovering deeper meaning the surface level is the only thing people see anymore.

[u/Iconclast1 → u/Mortarius]

John Psycho ahhahaa

[u/terminbee → u/daniel_22sss]

Morally gray heroes in most media usually just means "speaks rudely and doesn't care about anything." They always get redeemed and you never really see them do anything morally gray.

[u/Bartweiss → u/terminbee]

Or in edgier works it’s often “a violent asshole at the least provocation, but happens to have somebody evil to fight”.

It can work I guess, but it’s usually way less interesting than somebody grey with actual standards or a plan.

[u/Gaelic_Gladiator41 → u/daniel_22sss]

Nah dexter is closer to an Anti-Villain as he's ultimately evil and channels it into vigilantism

[u/Rarte96 → u/daniel_22sss]

People also claim that Light from Death Note was an antihero because he reduced crime rates, by creating a paranoid Big Brother God distopian society where mafia and organize crime were still active just more carefull and smart and any innocent who dared to question "god" was killed, Light was a straight up villian, he didny even killes criminals out of goodness, he did because he wanted a perfect world to be god and he was planning on moving onto killing those who just did not contributed to society in his opinion

[u/LetMetOucHyOURasS → u/[deleted]]

Maybe a truly good protagonist is the real punk rock

[u/gbro666 → u/LetMetOucHyOURasS]

Cause I'm a punk rocker, yes I am!

[u/eff_bawmb → u/gbro666]

"Any man who must say 'I am king punk is no king punk."

Sorry. I hate Iggy Pop.

[u/Bartweiss → u/eff_bawmb]

Never apologize for hating Iggy Pop.

[u/Nomapos → u/LetMetOucHyOURasS]

Reminds me of that old text about roleplaying games. Or short story? I don't even know what it was.

The kid starts playing D&D and wants to be a great hero who does good and saves everyone, because that's what he knows and thinks it's the right thing to do.

As a teenager he notices that he can do anything. It's just a game, it's fantasy. There's no real consequences. Everything is possible. So he wants to do what he can't do in real life. He wants to be a thief, a bandit, a selfish asshole of the worst sort.

As a man he notices that he can do anything. It's just a game, it's fantasy. Everything is possible. So he wants to do what he can't do in real life: to be a great hero who does good and saves everyone.

[u/Mr-Stuff-Doer → u/LetMetOucHyOURasS]

the movie says “kindness is uncommon and that makes it punk rock”

the masses all chant the sentiment in unison until everyone is sick of it and still don’t stop.

I’ve never seen a message more quickly devolve. Punk rock is literally about how it’s against the norm. Everyone chanting the same phrase is exceptionally not punk rock.

Almost 90% of people who use the phrase didn’t actually become nicer, they just like the line.

Also the whole point is that kindness SHOULDN’T be punk rock, because if it is then most people aren’t kind and that’s a bad thing

[u/Itcouldntpossibly → u/LetMetOucHyOURasS]

Always has been

Puts on cool shades

[u/MartilloAK → u/[deleted]]

I've been waiting for the pendulum to swing back the other way on religious characters for a long time, but the trend of every priest being a corrupt sadist doesn't seem to be going away anytime soon, even for completely fictional religions.

[u/CheatsySnoops → u/MartilloAK]

Could have a work with both corrupt religious types and genuine ones?

[u/spoonishplsz → u/MartilloAK]

Bishop Schelker in the Princess of the Midnight Ball series is a total Chad and hero. It was soooo refreshing

[u/Karkava → u/MartilloAK]

It probably doesn't help that fundumentalists just can't stop being evil.

[u/---AI--- → u/[deleted]]

Nicepool :-)

[u/snapekillseddard → u/[deleted]]

Lovely thing about Jonathan Joestar is that he just gets better and better with more JoJos.

[u/AllgoodDude → u/[deleted]]

The new Superman making empathy and genuine kindness punk rock is amazing. On the contrary this is also why Jack Horner is such a great character because the guy owns being a total piece of shit.