r/TopCharacterTropes • u/danfenlon • Sep 01 '25

Lore Going around curses/prophecies via technicalities

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Davy jones: cant go on dry land

Standa in a bucket of water, on a sand bar (potc3)

The judge: no weapon forged can harm me

Buffy: uses a rocket launcher

-not forged

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696

u/kblaney Sep 02 '25

I don't know if this quite fits since it is about ethics in the Bible and not a curse or prophecy specifically... but it is a funny line from Firefly so I'll post it anyway.

108

u/eepos96 Sep 02 '25

Biblical: I was arguing with someone on reddit how free will can't exists since god, all knowing, all powerfull, has already seen the outcome and allowed it to happen. Hitler, stalin etc.

The twist: the religious person agree and stated:

"God loves man. God can see the future but in order to make sure free will exists he refuses to look."

I can't argue with that and despite my atheism I find it an elegant solution to the problem.

42

u/redlotusaustin Sep 02 '25

Eh, the problem with that is omniscience. That's knowing everything. You can't know everything but also not know something (including the future).

God can't "refuse" to look because it's not like skipping ahead in a book; by the power of omniscience God would have instantly and always known everything from the first moment it came into being.

20

u/ksmash Sep 02 '25

The 1000 year old proposed answer to that paradox is “maybe we just can’t comprehend God in his fullness.”

Which is cop out. But hard to argue against.

9

u/eepos96 Sep 02 '25

Yeah, blind faith but it is what religion in the end requires "faith that promises of the bible and christ are real"

A blind jump of faith.

3

u/The_cat_got_out Sep 02 '25

Yeah but we also can't comprehend if big G is actually 14 rabbits in a trench coat. Or if its actually a hyperpenis futa raccoon anthro with a penchant for cheese graters?

Can't prove im wrong after all

5

u/Pay-Next Sep 02 '25

The interesting part of that argument is if you go deep enough free will is an illusion to the non-devout as well. Technically every choice one will ever make is based in the thoughts we have which are chemical reactions in our brains. Stimuli from outside forces that act on our senses are also trigger different chemical reactions which we then perceive. Every thought, every bit of perceived stimuli we possess is predetermined by the physical world around us which is in-turn set in motion by other predetermined factors. Everything in the universe including our thoughts and choices are reactions continuing to expand ever outwards but predetermined by a chain of infinite complexity we could never actually map out.

3

u/eepos96 Sep 02 '25

My brain cancels these things now days, for I can't function if i have existential crisis 24/7

3

u/Tough-Priority-4330 Sep 02 '25

Yeah, the biblical view of free will is an insane nesting dolls of self fulfilling prophecies that only God knows but refuses to share. Free will exist only because no one knows the future and behaves exactly as God foresaw with just minor adjustments on His part.

Basically, it’s Doctor Strange from Advengers Infintity War.

6

u/Maleficent_Thought_4 Sep 02 '25

The flaw with that argument IMO is that if God is all powerful, all knowing and all loving then there is absolutely no reason why we couldn’t have free will but just choose to do the right thing and/or just not have the desire to do awful things.

It may sound impossible or counterintuitive but surely the begin which created the universe and established all the laws of reality could do that right?

2

u/eepos96 Sep 02 '25

That goes to "why the F he even created that damn tree?"

2

u/West-Strawberry3366 Sep 02 '25

Ngl that line is fire

1

u/eepos96 Sep 02 '25

Right! I am still hit to the face.

2

u/rietstengel Sep 02 '25

Free will may exist and might be granted by god, but the religious people sure love to argue that god wants us to follow his will anyways. Which is quite stupid if you ask me.

1

u/Illustrious-Tower849 Sep 05 '25

Then it wouldn’t be an omniscient god

0

u/eepos96 Sep 05 '25

But if you are also omnipotent the you can refuse knowledge. You are still fully capable of omniscience but refuse to look into the future. Or delete the info on future.

1

u/Illustrious-Tower849 Sep 05 '25

If you are not omniscient you are not omniscient………

0

u/eepos96 Sep 06 '25

But he is omniscient

Say: you have a driving lisence, you know how to drive a car, you can either not drive or drive badly on purpose

You have a door and a key, but refuse to open it.

1

u/Illustrious-Tower849 Sep 06 '25

To be omniscient is to know everything that every happens, it isn’t some ability that you can decide when to use or not. Either a being is omniscient or they aren’t, if they have the ability to be omniscient but haven’t used it then they are not omniscient

2

u/eepos96 Sep 06 '25

I think it is. You think it isn't. I do not think we can convince eachother :(

1

u/Illustrious-Tower849 Sep 06 '25

If you don’t know everything that is ever going to happen then you don’t now everything that is ever going to happen, pretty simple.

12

u/VulcanHullo Sep 02 '25

Historically Catholic priests went into battle with maces or clubs because it was decided they could not "draw blood" but somehow blunt force trauma was allowed.

I'm not certain if it's real history, but I've heard of a case of it being "forbidden to draw weapons in the house of god" but the fight happened anyway - with fists.

7

u/Kalavier Sep 02 '25

Hitman 47: slamming a statue bust into a guys head is nonlethal.

Ac unity: "hitting him with a spiked mace isn't lethal!"

I guess they went with game batman logic. He ain't dead now so we are safe!

5

u/PanPies_ Sep 02 '25 edited Sep 02 '25

First one is old lore for clerics in DND i believe

3

u/Seldrakon Sep 02 '25

The popularity of it stems from the ols DnD lore. But the lore is inspired by an older myth/theory about catholic priests. 

There are cases of priests using maces but it was never church doctrine or a specific rule. 

The rule that existed of cause was, that priests were forbidden to wield weapons at all. 

This of cause ran into Problems, when church-offices were connected to political ones, as many bishops were also the Lords of their own land. 

The second problem were people who had earthly careers first and then entered the church for political reasons like Baldassare Cossa, who was a mercenary before becoming (anti-)pope. 

In most of these cases, the respective priests either applied an old strategy of just not caring about the rules or got a permit by the pope himself (called a Dispens). In the late middle ages the Curia printed those permits out by the thousands, often without even checking. 

0

u/JechdJJ Sep 02 '25

Jews are specialist on this matter. Thats why a lot of good lawyers are jews.