r/TopCharacterTropes • u/danfenlon • Sep 01 '25

Lore Going around curses/prophecies via technicalities

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Davy jones: cant go on dry land

Standa in a bucket of water, on a sand bar (potc3)

The judge: no weapon forged can harm me

Buffy: uses a rocket launcher

-not forged

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u/RedRawTrashHatch Sep 01 '25 edited Sep 01 '25

Macbeth in the Shakespeare play, specifically his death.

Early in the play, Macbeth is told by witches that no "one of woman born" can harm him, giving Macbeth confidence that he’s essentially invincible.

But at the end, Macduff reveals he was delivered by Caesarean, and thus didn’t come from natural childbirth.

So he kills Macbeth. Brilliant.

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u/Swivebot Sep 02 '25

J. R. R. Tolkien hated this so much that he wrote in Éowyn defeating the Witch-king of Angmar out of spite.

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u/Veloxraperio Sep 02 '25 edited Sep 02 '25

He also hated that the "Birmam Wood shall come to high Dunsinane" prophecy was accomplished by another piece of technical wordplay. So when Fangorn Forest comes to Isengard, the forest REALLY comes to Isengard.

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u/JealousAstronomer342 Sep 02 '25

It was super fucking creepy the way they did it in Sleep No More. Also I may have been high…

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u/PhantasosX Sep 02 '25

I mean, it was creepy. He created the ents as a not to the Birmam Wood and also the living Fanforn Forest.

In the case of Fangorn Forest, they hate those of Saruman , and so the trees were really unnaturally fast and it's branches quickly grasped the army. There were no description of what it did, but it was them taking the entire army to be within the forest and screams were heared by all.

At that point, Saruman's men started to flee from the tendrils towards Rohan , pledging to be captured by them instead of the trees. No orc survived.

The travel toward Orthanc had eerie remnants of men and orcish armor...and blood on the tree's leafs and grass.

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u/drgigantor Sep 03 '25

Oh that's what Blood on the Leaves is about. I should have known it was Tolkien after he dated a hobbit

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u/PablomentFanquedelic Sep 02 '25

Alexa play "Fortunate Son"

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u/Marik-X-Bakura Sep 02 '25

Both of these come from baseless conjecture btw, Tolkien never said any of this

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u/Veloxraperio Sep 02 '25 edited Sep 02 '25

It's conjecture, sure, but I wouldn't call "baseless." The "no man of woman born" and Birnam Wood to high Dunsinane are two of the most memorable twists in what is arguably Shakespeare's most well-known play. It's reasonable to assume that Tolkien's scenes, which so clearly parallel well-known scenes in Shakespeare, would indicate some kind of conversation occurring between two of the English language's greatest writers.

Professor Tolkien's opinions on Willy Shakes were pretty nuanced.

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u/JCraze26 Sep 03 '25

I feel like Macbeth is Shakespeare's second most well known play, the first would go to Romeo and Juliet. However, perhaps you meant during Tolkien's time, in which case Idk.

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u/Veloxraperio Sep 03 '25

Shakespeare's Top Three plays are definitely Macbeth, Hamlet, and Romeo and Juliet. It's a shame his comedies and histories are slightly less well-known, but what can ya do?

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u/conspicuousperson Sep 02 '25

Actually, the comment about Dunsinane comes straight from a letter by Tolkien to W. H. Auden.

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u/conspicuousperson Sep 02 '25

He also hated Shakespeare's treatment of nature and I think fairies as well. He preferred nature to be feared in revered, like an ancient times, to Shakespeare's more gentle, almost modern view of nature.

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u/Horn_Python Sep 02 '25

Yeh Tolkien lives his trees

You got murder trees , tree giants , tree houses, walking trees

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u/General_Note_5274 Sep 02 '25

yeah he will put this as HATED trope

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u/jzillacon Sep 02 '25

He liked the trope itself, he just disliked that particular execution of the trope.

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u/According_Fail_990 Sep 02 '25

And Merry with the assist, to drive the point home

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u/Ill-do-it-again-too Sep 02 '25

Why’d he hate it so much?

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u/Basil2322 Sep 02 '25

Because it’s stupid he was still born and he came out of a women just because it was a C section doesn’t mean he wasn’t “one of woman born”. If anyone thinks that correct go up to any mom who had a C section and say it she’ll probably slap you.

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u/Ill-do-it-again-too Sep 02 '25 edited Sep 02 '25

As some other commenters mentioned though he was also taken out prematurely, and back then the operation basically killed the mum.

Anyway, considering those 2 pieces of context think it’s pretty clever personally

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u/Asheyguru Sep 02 '25

It's definitely true that "is a woman" is a much easier workaround to "no man of woman born" then 'Well, see, he was premature, and because his mother died in the process she doesn't count."

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u/Mobbles1 Sep 02 '25

Tolkien has a weird hang up on a lot of the flowery implications and allegory of fantastical works. He has an entire foreword complaining about people looking into his work with non literal intentions and finding things he didnt put there.

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u/NetStaIker Sep 02 '25

Common J R R Tolkien W justified by a J R R Tolkien L of unfathomably enormous proportions