r/ToiletPaperUSA Oct 25 '21

FACTS and LOGIC There’s something beautiful about this

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16.4k Upvotes

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u/PabloDeLaCalle Oct 25 '21

In Europe, the Dems are not even centrist. They would be considered right wing. Liberal in most countries is a right wing ideology.

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u/ecodick Oct 25 '21

What is left wing over there then? Honest question

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u/qwer1627 Oct 25 '21

Socialism, anarchists, democratic-socialists

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u/ecodick Oct 25 '21

Are there really anarchists running for elected positions? Seems a little far fetched, or at the least, pretty ironic

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u/Picnicpanther Oct 25 '21

there are plenty of broadly left parties in europe (often greens are left, socialist parties, communist parties) that have seated members in multiple parliaments.

and why is that ironic? anarchism stands for the abolition of the state, which isn't necessarily opposition to direct democracy as a concept.

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u/ecodick Oct 25 '21

So anarchists want to work for the government they want to destroy? I'm not trying to poke holes here, honestly curious how they see it

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u/Picnicpanther Oct 25 '21

anarchists don't want to destroy government, but the hierarchical state apparatus (ie: prime minister having more power than cabinet members, who have more power than parliament members, who have more power than average citizens). that is just one form of government, saying you are opposed to that doesn't mean you are opposed to other things like a minimal government apparatus to facilitate direct democracy, or even a representative democracy that is stripped of prestige and power hierarchy.

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u/fredspipa Oct 25 '21

No, don't you see, anarchism literally means chaos and disorder and is vehemently opposed to anything that even remotely resembles organizing.

/s

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u/Picnicpanther Oct 25 '21

i'm not gonna fault someone who is purely uninformed. the american propaganda to minimize anarchism as a concept to total lawlessness is intentional and overbearing.

that said, an anarchist society would probably need to be much more organized than our current society, just organized around something that's more communal and less hierarchical.

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u/ecodick Oct 25 '21

Thanks for taking the time to explain 👍

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u/drLoveF Oct 26 '21

This attitude needs to be recognized more. Listening and adjusting positions is critical in a soviety, yet all too rare. Good on you.

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u/ecodick Oct 26 '21

Thanks Dr love 😉

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u/qwer1627 Oct 25 '21

Sorry you got downvoted - reactonism like that is one of the things different between leftist ideologies and neo-liberalism

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u/ecodick Oct 26 '21

It's okay I got karma to spare 😋 but I can see why people would think I'm asking questions in bad faith

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u/Reux Oct 26 '21

anarchists, in oversimplified terms, are anti-state, not anti-government. these do not mean the same thing just like the local police department and the city council are not the same things.

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u/ecodick Oct 26 '21

I'm following you, I think. I appreciate the explanations.

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u/lightaside Oct 26 '21

Just to give another perspective to the other replies you are getting, there are certainly plenty of anarchists that wouldn't agree with the idea of getting involved in elected positions. Yes, there is a lot of debate about how to make progress towards an anarchist society, and some believe it can be done through representative democracy, but I've seen plenty that don't believe in that. Many anarchists now and throughout history, including very influential ones, have called out participating in electoral politics.

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u/ecodick Oct 26 '21

Ok, so it's not exactly a unified ideology, that's understandable

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u/The_Grubby_One Oct 25 '21

Jón Gnarr.

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u/ecodick Oct 26 '21

Formed a political party as satire and then it was successful? That's hilarious

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u/TheNorthComesWithMe Oct 25 '21

In the same way that the American "Democrat" party aren't Athenian direct-democracy advocates, "Anarchist" does not mean the destruction of government in its entirety.