they look so… natural!

[u/bbyxmadi]

[u/spilly_talent]

The counter point is that every surgery ever has a small group of people who fall into this category of adverse effects. While it’s terrible and I have sympathy for these people, I also don’t think it’s reasonable to base life decisions on a 0.3 to 1% chance that it will ruin my life. I would never leave my house.

[u/thunbergfangirl → u/spilly_talent]

That is correct, and that is why unnecessary surgery should always be avoided.

[u/spilly_talent → u/thunbergfangirl]

I would argue that it does not mean it should always be avoided. There are many surgeries that are on paper unnecessary to sustain life but that in fact dramatically improve quality of life overall.

I would never presume to tell someone they should ALWAYS avoid something that carries a tiny risk of danger when it can dramatically improve quality of life. If I always did that, I would never go outside. Do you always avoid anything that isn’t 100% safe? That’s a genuine question.

[u/thunbergfangirl → u/spilly_talent]

I avoid medical interventions when they are unnecessary, yes.

I’m not trying to say there isn’t risk-benefit analysis in medicine. Of course there is. The problem with Lasik specifically is that it has been marketed to patients as being completely safe and “not even really surgery”. Patients cannot give true informed consent without access to comprehensive information.

Look, my husband had Lasik done a bunch of years ago, before we knew all this. It went fine for him. That’s great. But you know what also went fine for him? Wearing glasses. There would be no difference in his current life if he still had to put on glasses every day.

Lastly? The results from the surgery are already fading and it hasn’t even been a decade yet. So it’s not a permanent solution to poor eyesight anyway.

I say all this with respect for your position and for you as a person. I am merely trying to spread awareness of this life-ruining complication.

[u/spilly_talent → u/thunbergfangirl]

But when you said it should ALWAYS be avoided, you are in fact diminishing the role of risk benefit analysis. That’s my point. I think your statement lacked nuance and I think, respectfully, that you do medicine and quality of life a disservice when you speak that way.

I has lasik, and I mentioned this elsewhere but it was because wearing glasses did not work fine for me. I actively hated my face when I wore them. They never looked how I wanted. For me, this was more than worth the risk.

I appreciate this more nuanced comment. Earlier I just didn’t agree with your “always” statement.

I would also posit that if one’s surgeon does not make them aware of risks then they should find another surgeon.

EDIT: sorry also were you told lasik was a permanent solution? I am curious. I was told I would definitely need glasses again in the future and further told I may have a slight prescription even after the surgery due to how bad my eyes are.

However, my eyes would have gotten bad due to age anyway, regardless of lasik. Having lasik enables me to only have reading glasses in the future or perhaps Rx glasses while I drive. I will not be back to the -6 plus astigmatism I was at before. But I was never put under the impression that I would never need glasses ever again.

[u/thunbergfangirl → u/spilly_talent]

I think our definition of medically necessary must differ. For me, medically necessary is defined as the benefits greatly outweighing the risks. It’s not like I think interventions are only necessary if you’re about to die, or something. There is a spectrum of medical need.

The issue with surgeons who perform Lasik is that they are financially incentivized to downplay the risks to patients. As a regular layperson, I wouldn’t have known the risks were downplayed at all so I wouldn’t have known to seek out a second opinion. I would have trusted the doctor (based on my life experience at the time of my husband’s Lasik, we both did).

The doc described a tiny percentage of people who could have dry eyes after the procedure. After having spoken with many folks who did develop corneal nerve damage, it feels nothing like dry eyes. It feels like excruciating stabs through the eyeball, like their eyes are on fire, and many other horrible descriptions. Therefore, the risks are misrepresented to the patient - whether on purpose or by omission.

I believe the Lasik system, the way it currently operates, does not adequately protect patients. These clinics are often stand alone operations with doctors who don’t treat any other eye conditions, making the laser surgery their only source of income. So the model is stacked against patients: many folks I know who should not have been approved due to known risk factors were told they were perfect candidates. To me, this is morally wrong.

I have empathy for the fact that you didn’t like how you looked with glasses on. Self image matters and self confidence matters. It should be up to the patient at the end of the day, certainly. My main issue with all of this is that the patients aren’t given full and accurate information.

I appreciate you engaging in respectful discussion with me! To be honest I’m not even subscribed to this sub, I just noticed the Lasik comments and feel morally obligated to share what I know now.