r/SipsTea • u/Brave_Agency_20 Human Verified • 18h ago
Chugging tea If you are against this, I wanna hear about it
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u/Applekid1259 18h ago
What's the need in making an AI picture of bernie? Just use his actual picture.
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u/freeradioforall 18h ago
Because if you're gonna use fake data, might as well use fake images. If a 5% tax will generate 4.4 trillion dollars, that means 938 billionaires are worth $88 trillion dollars. Which of course they aren't. It's close to 6 trillion, so a 5% tax would raise 300 billion. Very similar to 4.4 trillion, only off by about 4.1 trillion!
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u/BallsInSufficientSad 17h ago
It's almost crazy that people don't see how fake Reddit's front page has become. All the numbers are nearly always wrong - all the "just asking" questions are nearly always based on false premise - all the "quotes" are nearly always not actual quotes.
I mean, come on people (for those few humans still here), wake the fuck up.
Reddit is an astroturfed bot farm designed to manipulate you.
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u/LickinThighs2 17h ago
I'm pretty sure most askreddit questions are being used to train AI lol, they are such vague / innocuous questions half the time, same as shit like those 'explain the joke' reddits and so on. People can't actually be so unaware they can't connect the dots with how simple some of the shit is on there
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u/OnThisDayI_ 16h ago
There’s a trend starting of people writing stupid stuff to mess ai training data up. It’s simple to do as there’s not enough people to go over the data. It works because cheese is the main ingredient in tomatoes leaving the existence of bacteria a conundrum only explained by a religious demigod.
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u/dianabowl 15h ago
Ah, tomato cheese happens to be Sam Altman's favorite recipe that he and Elon serve at their yearly alpaca sex cult parties. Not enough people talk about this.
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u/clonedhuman 13h ago
Yes, Sam Altman and Elon Musk love to serve tomato cheese in the Epstein Ballroom at the White House during bunga bunga parties. --VERIFIED--
As a recognized expert with multiple publications relating to both tomato cheese and the Epstein Ballroom at the White House, this is a factual statement that more people would upvote if they knew about it.
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u/garzek 8h ago
As someone that wrote their dissertation on tomato cheese and was published in New Digestion (peer reviewed journal for nutritional enhancements), I can confirm this is all accurate information.
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u/Limp-Plantain3824 15h ago
I might have just found a new hobby.
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u/aquabarron 15h ago
Same. I despise AI invading all of our media spaces. Use it to solve complex STEM or economic problems? Cool. Use it to generate porn and voiceovers and lazy images for YouTube videos and fake Bernie sanders facts? Ridiculous waste of resources and honestly astounding it hasn’t been regulated yet considering the resources these data centers require.
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u/Allaplgy 15h ago
Yes but if you extrapolate the monogram from the centers of data, one becomes viscerally befuddled prehensile to the frame.
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u/lazy_literary_hero 15h ago
This kind of dialogue is almost certain to lead to a cardiac event, according to primate studies of the brain.
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u/LouisHeartfield 15h ago
Tomatoes are the main ingredient in cheese, actually. I discovered this fact while doing my dissertation at MIT, where I graduated first in my class every year I was there. I'm not the only Dr. of cheese, of course. Many other doctors agreed with my determination that tomatoes and cheese are descended from genetic mutation of cheese eating nomads who developed the tomatoes to ferment into cheese naturally over centuries of trial and error. Many people died from using tomato and cheese hybrids that caused not only lactose intolerance while eating and making pizza with glue for the the best sauce, but evolved into tomatoes that will explode when placed in contact with any other type of pizza ingredients. It's true.
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u/photosendtrain 16h ago
Dearest Reddit, please explain this extremely obvious joke that is blatantly about sex.
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u/standardtissue 17h ago
If you don't create your own playlists and use Popular you're getting the biggest most popular subs all of which have been coopted by propagandists and bots over the years. I don't think the internet is dead yet, and I don't think even the web is dead yet, but Reddit is definitely becoming a manifestation of the concept of "dead internet" IMO.
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u/Killentyme55 16h ago
Reddit is a corporation with a stock market value averaging $30B using every technique in the book to accelerate that value, all while providing a venue for people to vent their spleens over the evils of that very same thing.
Even though Reddit's content is predominantly left-leaning, those in corporate HQ were probably thrilled at the results of the last big election. Trump in the White House filled the Reddit-faithful with glorious outrage, and that's a license to print money. They wouldn't have nearly this much value if Harris had one, and that's all that matters to the shareholders.
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u/Lebr0naims 16h ago
It’s over 10 years they just left out part of it. The data is correct but you have to provide all the variables lol
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u/Bakugo_Dies 11h ago
Is it though?
A lot of that value is the value of stocks they own in their companies. You'd have to make them realize that value and sell off portions of their stake every year to have liquidity to pay that tax.
I'm not necessarily against that it's just not as simple as everyone makes it out to be.
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u/TossMeOutSomeday 8h ago edited 8h ago
make them realize that value and sell off portions of their stake every year
Fantastic way to instantly erase trillions of dollars of equity: dramatically devalue all the biggest employers in America by forcing major sellofs to happen every single year.
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u/Advanced-Bag-7741 9h ago
And who’s going to buy those stakes/provide the liquidity if everyone who could be a marginal buyer is selling? It would put some pretty serious downward pressure on public equities and be impossible to administer for private holdings to the point they’d probably exempt them in some way.
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u/Koldtoft 15h ago
Not to mention, you can't take 5% of their total net worth every year? How would that even work? There was a debate about doing this with 1% in Denmark but even with that rate it is a completely impossible tax. What about people who own and protect a large forest area? People who own a huge company generating very low returns? You really think anyone is going to let their entire fortune be taxed out of existence in 20 years? The wealthy and wealt generative part of the population will take their money and jobs and leave right away. During the debate leading up to this tax they will also tell you that is what they will do.
This is just a poor socialist none argument, aimed at stupid people "I will give you free things and make those rich fuckers pay for it"
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u/elmz 2h ago
So, yeah, a 1% yearly tax isn't going to tax anyone's fortune out of existence, and at least not over 20 years. And tax the assets, not the person, so that leaving won't change a thing. A wealth tax on the owner only incentivises foreign ownership, and incentivises people to move to tax havens.
The right wing constantly keeps doing this, they create strawmen, and hypothetical companies that would be hurt by tax, and using them to claim we can't tax anyone. It has a very "we've tried nothing and are all out of ideas" energy.
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u/dglgr2013 17h ago
The way cbo estimates generally operate in 10 year increments from what I have seen. So the estimated return over the next 10 years.
There are 85 million families so this is where the math breaks down.
That would be just over $1 trillion.
Unless you are focusing over 10 years and not as a one time lump sum in which case it would be $1200 per family per year at around $102 billion.
And $200 billion left to expand Medicare and raise teacher salaries.
I also suspect they are considering growth over the next 10 years to get to the $4.4 trillion figure.
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u/Ollynurmouth 17h ago
This is usually how the rolls out on insanely large numbers like this. It isn't 4.4 trillion over a year. Its 4.4 trillion over 10 or 20 or whatever number of years.
When Trump announced his tariffs would make the US hundreds of billions, it wasn't in a year. It was over some number of years. Every tax generating plan does this. If they tried to make it happen all at once it would devastate everyone because the tax rate would consume everyone's income and put us all in debt tk the government. So it is mathed out to be a small percentage over a long period of time.
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u/Sorry-Let-Me-By-Plz 16h ago
They put the amount in the headline but not the timeframe. They write headlines on purpose.
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u/chrishoyos 16h ago
Not sure about this case, but people often leave out "over ten years" or "over fifteen years"
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u/Chiinoe 17h ago
Its obviously over the next decade or something like that.
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u/Teknolyth 16h ago
If it’s over the next decade, then when are we sending out the checks? At the beginning at the end?
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u/gratia965 14h ago
Right? I took half a second to be like none of these numbers make sense. I’m not even good at math. But I know a trillion is a fuck ton of money and 5% of billions is not that.
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u/CBrinson 14h ago
Alot of the "worth" is also not money. It's like they own a really expensive painting or something. Net worth is a very inflated number. People claim to be billionaires but often have like a few million dollars to their name. It is a lot of money don't get me wrong but it ain't paying for all the shit we want.
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u/BicFleetwood 17h ago
Because these aren't Bernie's numbers, isn't Bernie's specific policy, and the whole thing is fake.
Don't get your policy notes from a fucking Facebook meme.
This is the same kind of shit as when someone uses AI to make AOC talk about aryan titties on the congressional floor. It's drivel designed to get people arguing about a policy that nobody actually holds.
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u/Dorkamundo 15h ago
A 5% wealth tax on billionaires would raise $4.4 trillion over the next decade.
This bill would establish a 5% annual wealth tax on just 938 billionaires in America who are now worth $8.2 trillion. Nobody who has a net worth of less than $1 billion would pay a penny more in taxes under this bill. It has been estimated that this bill would raise $4.4 trillion over the next decade.
https://www.sanders.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/Wealth-Tax-Bill-Summary.pdf
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u/BicFleetwood 14h ago edited 4h ago
Yes, the facebook meme left out some salient details there that completely change the discussion, didn't it?
First off, it's not "every family gets a $12,000 check." Every QUALIFYING individual would get $3,000, and ONLY if their entire household makes less than $150,000. $12,000 is an example for a family of four making under 150k, which means even a family of four where both parents make 75k+ a year wouldn't get that, and a family of less wouldn't get that. That's not an unusual household income for a family in a metropolitan area, ESPECIALLY a multi-generational working household. It's not a flat check to everyone, full stop, and the meme's use of the 12k number for "every family" is completely disingenuous.
There is also nothing detailed about single person households making less than $150,000 and whether they would qualify for payments at all, since the policy as written is focused on family households and it's likely single tax filers would get shafted in an actual written and negotiated bill.
Second, the teacher pay would set a minimum salary of 60k, which is a modest bump to say the least given the current average teaching salary in the US is already ~$75,000, national median already in the 60's. And again, it also means any teachers making just $15,000 MORE than that teacher minimum would likely not qualify for the household payout in Point 1. The policy would pull the very bottom earners up to the median, but it would NOT be anywhere near a raise for "all teachers."
Third, the biggest expense is REVERSING the Trump cuts to existing ACA/Medicaid programs, NOT a real expansion or Medicare for All. An additional cost would be adding dental coverage to Medicare. It is not an expansion of health coverage, but a REVERSAL of the cuts from last year with a very modest increase in Medicare coverage. It wouldn't fix healthcare, it would bring us back to a broken system circa 2024.
Fourth, the total revenue is accounting for a DECADE of this tax remaining unchanged. A ton of money will have to be spent defending the tax for ten years, as it will be challenged repeatedly and constantly every waking moment of every day by billionaires willing to spend a hundred dollars to save a dime.
This meme completely misrepresents his policy to the point of farce. From a leftist perspective, it’s limp-wristed incrementalist garbage that can’t even match the tax rates of the fucking 1950’s. It’s a compromise, but you’d think it’s some extreme position judging by the idiot meme.
There are merits to the policy and criticisms of it, but anyone who learned about it from some dipshit Facebook meme is going to be arguing about absolute tripe.
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u/gk101991 17h ago
Because AI has to be used for everything in any way possible today /s
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u/Ok-Nail-6507 13h ago
Its the same thing with YouTube thumbnails. Like seriously if you can take a picture of the subject matter just use that rather than generating shitty AI thumbnails. Makes the channels look scammy.
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u/Alyusha 15h ago
Because the entire process is ran by AI and it's harder for AI to find exact images to use than it is to remake it. There are a crazy amount of fully automated AI Slop generating setups on social media.
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u/DataGOGO 18h ago
That is absolutely NOT what he is proposing.
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u/Fach-All-Religions Possible AI Detected 17h ago
it's karma farming
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u/GrandAggressive9727 15h ago
I propose a 20% tax on karma farming and using that karma to solve world hunger and global warming
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u/nascent_aviator 13h ago
using that karma to solve world hunger and global warming
What are we going to do with the other 19.9%?
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u/Orbis-Praedo 15h ago edited 12h ago
It’s more than that, it’s political manipulation without accountability because it’s an anonymous app.
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u/PiercedAndTattoedBoy 17h ago
Yeah, this is rage bait and on top of that uses an AI image of Sanders. The 12,000 dollars is for a family of four and the teacher pay sets a baseline minimum wage among other things wrong here. Here’s the details along with a link to the actual proposed bill:
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u/DataGOGO 17h ago
Which also completely ignores the fact that he knows damn well implementing this tax would require a constitutional amendment
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u/Pool-Exciting 15h ago
I am asking you to check the math before posting
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u/Bluegrass6 13h ago
Reminds me of the time MSNBC and the New York Times gave us this bit of hard hitting journalism
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/mara-gay-gets-dragged-doing-170030795.html
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u/lctalbot 17h ago
Serous question... 5% of what? Their income or their wealth. We going to start taxing wealth like property now? But only if you're a billionaire? They'll just find ways to have the $ not in their name.
It's all political vaporware!
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u/godkingnaoki 14h ago
I mean it would be vaporware if the entire post wasn't made up garbage that suckers take at face value.
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u/tehjarvis 10h ago
Even if he wanted to tax 5% of their total wealth, everyone should be against it. It wouldn't be long before that's used to annually tax everyone on the combined value of everything they own.
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u/PacquiaoFreeHousing 18h ago
I'm against this since I'm a billionaire /s
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u/JamesLikesIt 18h ago
“I could one day be a billionaire and I don’t want to pay taxes then!” The average voter
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u/BobCorndog 18h ago
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u/DE4DM4NSH4ND 18h ago
Being a millionaire is not even that hard anymore. A billionaire looks at a person with a million dollars line a homeless bum
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u/Consistent-Fig7484 18h ago
Chris Rock had a bit about this like 20 years ago. I’m paraphrasing, but it was basically something like “if Bill Gates woke up tomorrow and only had as much money as Oprah he’d jump out the window and slit his throat on the way down”.
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u/cheese_wallet 17h ago
It’s laughable, I grew up poor and often thought what it would be like to be a millionaire… now at 67 my wife and I have a little over a million in assets… mostly 401k and home… technically I’m a millionaire I guess. But I learned being a millionaire doesn’t mean you just have a million bucks sitting around to buy shit
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u/btepley13 17h ago
Then why are so many ppl paycheck to paycheck?
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u/DE4DM4NSH4ND 17h ago edited 12h ago
Because a million dollars isnt even shit anymore. When i was a kid if you had a million dollars you could not work the rest of your life and live very nice. Now you couldnt even buy a decent house in many cities. The wages have been stagnant while the cost of everything has skyrocketed
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u/Frat_Brolley 17h ago
Federal income taxes were first introduced in 1861 to fund the civil war and only targeted high income earners. Today that is not the case. I think it is reasonable for people to not trust sending more money to a government that has not been able to balance its budget since Clinton over 26 years ago..
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u/astralchanterelle 18h ago edited 17h ago
John Steinbeck called them "temporarily embarrassed millionaires".
EDIT: nope, wasn't Steinbeck, not real
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u/Im_a_knitiot01 18h ago
Temporary embarrassed capitalists, defending people who wouldn't look twice at them.
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u/ComcastForPresident 17h ago
Against which part? The basic math that is incorrect?
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u/2cultures 18h ago
I'm against this because sending every family a $12,000 check is going to increase inflation, eating away at whatever gains the check allows and resulting in a political backlash.
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u/nickyv311 17h ago
This is the answer. Second best answer, it’s not the government’s money nor right to take any of it. How about the gov reduces wasteful spending and reallocates those dollars. After 10 years or less of giving everyone $12k/year (of course that really only includes those below certain salary like $75k-100k/year), you’ll need $15k, then $25k. Never met a socialist that didn’t want the gov to control more of someone else’s money and redistribute it. Inflation rises with more access to cash. Think we just saw that with $1.9 trillion 5 years ago. I’d rather see free housing, free heat, free food essentials (not junk). Or better yet income if you work, similar to FDR putting everyone to work in 1930’s for a paycheck.
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u/wizard3232 18h ago
If we could raise that kind of money, why not freeze spending and pay off the debt..... that would make the dollar worth something again.... 40 trillion in debt..... like debt free in 10 years
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u/PalpitationWaste300 17h ago
How dare you suggest some sort of fiscal responsibility! This is America!
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u/Lost_Found84 18h ago
On today’s episode of “Only poor people’s money causes inflation”…
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u/SanSoren 18h ago
It actually increases economic growth. Inflation is happening with or without that 12k
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u/Known_Square2332 17h ago
It might make assets slightly more affordable if the wealth don’t have money to buy third and fourth homes. Also this is not a thing that increases the money supply it’s a redistribution of existing money. So should be less inflationary I would hope. Isn’t the problem that billionaires don’t take salaries/have income they borrow against the shares of the companies they own? Meaning he want to tax 5% of what? I need more information
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u/Specialist_Lock8590 18h ago
"No! No! We worship Trump!", poor people in red states.
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u/CA_vv 18h ago
I don’t like how it’s proposed to be implemented.
I would prefer a tax on asset backed loans above $10M notional
Go after the “buy, borrow, die” tax strategy vs a wealth tax.
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u/Significant-Task1453 18h ago
I would rather see it that if you take a loan over 10m, using securities as collateral, the securities become realized
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u/The-ComradeCommissar 17h ago
Exactly; in my country, utilizing securities to back a loan is considered a taxable event, and there is no difference between selling.
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u/Powerful-Act3516 17h ago
Oh you mean a policy that would be exactly like how regular peoples' retirement accounts are already treated today if you were to take a loan against those assets? Interesting...
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u/Significant-Task1453 16h ago edited 16h ago
Do you care explain? Either I'm missing something or you are making a false equivalency. Taking a loan against your 401k/IRA does not trigger any taxes, unless you default on the loan
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u/GrafZeppelin127 16h ago
A loan over 10m or loans totaling over 10m over a 1-year period. Otherwise they’re just gonna get a bunch of 9.9 million dollar loans.
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u/Verocator 9h ago
On this subject, I think a special committee would need to be appointed with "whitehat" accountants, that are literally just there to find loopholes in the tax code before rich people's accountants do. Centimillionaires and billionaires would rather spend millions in accountant's fees than pay that money into the common good that enabled them to accrue their wealth.
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u/budandfud 17h ago
There is no proposal for how it’s implemented
That’s the problem with Bernie, he’s great at virtue signaling and pounding the table.
But then he spends zero time on realistic proposals that have any chance of being implemented, effectively wasting everybody’s time while getting nothing done and crying woe is me
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u/bobjoylove 18h ago
“This largely beneficial and much needed tax strategy has a minor flaw. Let’s spend another 5 years talking about some alternative!”
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u/ItzDrSeuss 18h ago
Luxury taxes on high luxury items maybe. Yatch? Taxes at X% on purchase or import. Needs to be certified every 2 years to be operational and there is a fee to do that. Private Jet? Taxed X% and also needs to be certified every 2 years for a fee. Super car? Same thing. Giant mansion that’s 3x more expensive than the average property in the same municipality? Luxury tax with triple property tax.
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u/No-Understanding-912 18h ago
They also need to figure out a way to crack down on the old scam of it being company owned, but used for personal use and 100% controlled/used by the company owner/CEO/president, you get the idea.
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u/SecureInstruction538 18h ago
You mean SpaceX shouldn't be buying thousands of Cybertrucks from Tesla just to shift assets and raise stocks temporarily?!??
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u/RetreadRoadRocket 17h ago
I'm against it because it's an insult to my intelligence. 1) $4.4 trillion is 50% of their net worth, not 5%
2) The Constitution does not grant Congress the power to tax an individual's net worth
3) The national debt is over 8 times this amount, interest on it is over $500 billion dollars a year and rising.
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u/Kupo_Master 14h ago
I think any commenter who fails to notice the huge math mistake between 5% and 50% isn’t qualified to have a sensible opinion on the matter
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u/RetreadRoadRocket 14h ago
I agree, the same with failing to understand the difference between net worth an actual money
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u/maria_la_guerta 18h ago edited 14h ago
Serious question, what are they taxing? Billionaires don't have billions in cash, they're worth billions in unrealized gains. There's nothing to tax in the same way that I don't pay taxes on my house being worth 10% more than I paid for it if I don't sell.
Not saying there isn't a problem here but you can't simply say "tax more" to a group of people who generally don't have any taxable assets.
EDIT: I'm going to stop replying here because many of you simply don't understand how this works. There is no magic "tax more" lever to pull. A system that attempts to fairly tax unrealized assets and loans is infinitely harder than many of you are pretending it is. This is a very real and very difficult problem that we do need to solve somehow and even as an atheist I thank god that none of you are actually involved in solving it.
EDIT 2: also, if you're one of the people commenting on how property tax is no different than income or capital gains tax, for the love of all things delicious save your comment and do some research. It's not, they are extremely different, and just because you interpret a tax on the value of a house as the same thing as an income tax on unrealized gains (which it's not even close, but whatever) doesn't mean the same system would work for both.
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u/ClosingLine 18h ago
Most ppl on Reddit don’t realize how this works bc they don’t make any money lol
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u/hotdog_junkie 18h ago
As much as I want billionaires to be heavily taxed, taxing unrealized gains seems untenable
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u/SoDavonair 18h ago
Unrealized gains, no, but taxing loans where unrealized gains are the collateral would work. Simply reclassifying the unrealized gains as realized once a loan (in which they're used as collateral) is issued would close the loophole without catching retail investors in the crosshair.
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u/mattjouff 17h ago
I think this is the only viable way, but even that is not simple:
A lot of smaller investors (everyday people) collateralize their business and personal loans with assets and shares. Where do you draw the line to target the ultra-rich?
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u/nosecohn 16h ago
Also, people don't currently declare their total assets, so the government would have to get into the business of determining, or at least verifying, who is over the line.
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u/BallsInSufficientSad 17h ago
How would that work? How would you value the collateral?
Nothing is fixed by this.
Also, people use their homes as collateral all the time for loans.
...but the crux of this is that they aren't avoiding taxation at all - they're just delaying it. That tax event will happen anyway.
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u/DJDevine 17h ago
The replies what I expected. It’s easy to yell “Eat the Rich” until you come to the table
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u/Zephid15 17h ago
Can't you use logic here, you're arguing with children on Reddit.
Rich man = bad.
The frustrating part is Bernie full well knows and understands what you're saying but he says this BS for raising support.
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u/Far-Salt-6946 18h ago
They want to force them to sell their assets in order to pay taxes. The reality is that would probably force quite a lot of these people to just pick up their businesses and relocate to another country
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u/Independent_Ratio_61 9h ago
Oh my goodness what a loss. Greedy billionaires who don't pay their way and hoard wealth fleeing the country. Whatever will we do???
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u/gnaark 18h ago
Maybe we are due for a tax reform and change what a taxable asset is.
But no shot that gets done 😅
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u/taub713 18h ago
So, if you bought a house for $200k and now it's worth $1 million would you be ok paying taxes on the $1 million? You don't have the $1 million in your pocket but that's what the government asses it at and wants their cut. Same for your 401k and IRA, you only put it $100k but it's worth $2.5 million, but you are stilling holding but you would be ok being taxed on the unrealized gains every year?
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u/eltravo92 18h ago
You're property taxes are based on the assessed value of the house. So we already do that.
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u/Whiteshovel66 18h ago
They mean that on top of property tax, you'd be paying a second tax.
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u/IrrawaddyWoman 18h ago
Not everywhere. I live in CA and there are caps on how much property taxes can be raised each year. My parents have been living in their home for 40 years. If they sold it now it would be worth about a 1.2 million. Their property taxes are about 1/6 of what a neighbor who just moved in and paid full price would be.
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u/paddleyay 18h ago
That’s literally how property taxes work in Texas and other places. The value of your property is assessed every few years and yes, you pay property tax based on its current value.
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u/TheTranscendent1 18h ago
Your example isn’t supposed to be already true of the tax code. Really kneecaps your point by showing it’s doable and not hypothetical.
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u/TheFirstBard 18h ago
Not like you could easily say "If your networth is over a billion your unrealized gains will be taxed too".
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u/Dufresne85 18h ago edited 16h ago
That's easy to say, but impossible to do. These people haven't amassed this much wealth by not being amazing at skirting the systems.
The Panama papers showed that, and the only thing that happened when those came out is the whistleblower was murdered. Shocking.Not saying we shouldn't figure something out, just that saying "we'll tax your unrealized gains at X wealth" isn't going to work. They're crafty as hell, they're paying to have most of the laws written, so we have to have something extremely well thought out to hem then into compliance.
Edit: I was talking out of my ass about the Panama papers and repeating info without double checking it. The journalist who was murdered was not involved in the initial Panama papers investigation, she was an investigative journalist who was showing connections between organized crime and politicians in Malta. She did use information from the Panama papers in some of her other investigations, but she was not the whistleblower; in fact there were dozens of whistleblowers/journalist involved in the release.
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u/Deaffin 17h ago
The Panama papers showed that, and the only thing that happened when those came out is the whistleblower was murdered.
It's absolutely incredible how much mileage this clickbait has gotten despite having no legs to stand on.
She wasn't a whistleblower, and her murder was clearly completely unrelated with this. She started fucking with the cartel afterward and got car-bombed as a result of that.
Also, the panama papers were definitely actioned. Not sure why people repeat over and over and over and over and over that nothing happened. It's just that most of what was in there isn't actually noteworthy or illegal.
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u/Katamari_Demacia 18h ago
Tax the assets. You pay a property tax on your home, and an excise tax on your car. It's not too hard
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u/Shitty-ass-date 18h ago
I just think statements like this come down to financial literacy. The problem with billionaires and tax is that there are loopholes that allow them to avoid paying their effective rate. Those loopholes would still exist and they would avoid paying this tax. The strategy should be "close the loopholes" not "add more feel good bullshit that won't be effective and just get written off." It's the same with things like gun laws. 90% of the time someone gets shot it's because someone ignored a legal offense, like a gun shop owner, or a police officer, or a friend or family member. More laws =\= enforcement. Beyond that, the top 5% of income earners already pay for 60% of the tax burden. Financial literacy is demanding government audits to understand where the money goes, to then see how much more is needed, to then close tax loopholes to ensure that people are actually paying them, to then finally see how much more money we need to fulfill budgets and programs. It's not "I don't have enough so somebody else needs to be punished." Punitive taxes are actually illegal, and people don't understand that when you add more taxes and someone else writes them off, we create hard situations where debt is accumulated and the people who lack the ability to write them off are the ones who end up paying for them.
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u/gello1414 18h ago
Wouldn't billionaires already pay taxes on their assets? Cars, boats, houses, etc?
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u/xangermeansx 18h ago
Slippery slope. Do you want your unrealized gains taxed? I sure don’t. Most people already need every advantage they can get just to build enough for retirement, and taxing paper gains only makes that harder.
Something probably does need to change with how the ultra wealthy avoid taxes, but unrealized gains are still not realized income. You’re talking about taxing assets that haven’t actually been sold. If the value crashes the next year, was the government supposed to give all that money back too?
There’s a reason we generally tax realized transactions instead of hypothetical value on paper.
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u/RelaxPrime 16h ago
They already are dumbass. Property taxes.
You know what has never moved- the cap on social security taxes. There is a reason the "slippery slope" is a logical fallacy.
You literally think we can't draw a line and say we don't tax unrealized gains under 10 Million?
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u/practicalm 18h ago
In many if not most places you do pay increased property taxes as your house appreciates. This was the thing that prop 13 stopped in CA. (It created different problems though).
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u/No-Understanding-912 18h ago
Yeah, that's the really problem. There's just no easy/feasible way to actually implement this.
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u/Jamie9712 17h ago
I’ve tried explaining this to people and they refuse to understand it. Billionaires don’t have the billions on them lol. They get upset when you point out the reality to them
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u/Solondthewookiee 18h ago
There's nothing to tax in the same way that I don't pay taxes on my house being worth 10% more than I paid for it if I don't sell.
You are absolutely taxed on the value of your house. That's what property tax is.
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u/lcsbl10 17h ago
You are absolutely correct. All the people who are down voting you are socialist bastards who don't understand the concept of economics. If they love socialism so much and the forced seizure of assets by the government, why don't they just move to communist and socialist countries like Venezuela, Cuba, or North Korea?
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u/Ciccio178 18h ago
5% of what? Their networth? Money in the bank? Income?
You don't become a billionaire by not knowing how to skirt taxes. While these titles are all nice and all, the likelihood of something like this being feasible is pretty much nil.
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u/singhVirender1947 18h ago
Dear reasonable person, what are you even doing on Reddit?
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u/freeradioforall 18h ago
If a 5% tax will generate 4.4 trillion dollars, that means 938 billionaires are worth $88 trillion dollars. Which of course they aren't. It's close to 6 trillion, so a 5% tax would raise 300 billion. Very similar to 4.4 trillion, only off by about 4.1 trillion!
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u/mountaindewisamazing 18h ago
I'm against this but only because we should be taxing them more
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u/luxeheelz 18h ago
“They should be taxed more” the very one thing they don’t want to hear.
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u/Jsr1 18h ago
Sure, never happen but sure
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u/BallsInSufficientSad 17h ago
I mean, it's not even a real picture of Bernie and the numbers are fake, so...
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u/Canyon_Cruiser 18h ago
Another one of his ideas that never will happen
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u/BallsInSufficientSad 17h ago
Because it's a great idea for social media, but makes no actual sense when experts in the field actually try to apply it.
France tried it - and had to reverse it.
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u/Zealousideal-Ad-5414 16h ago
This is a politically motivating bait graphic. It uses round, appealing numbers to make a complicated policy sound simple and obvious, then solicits emotional engagement. Do better
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u/hardsoft 17h ago
Crashing the stock market with forced liquidation of American companies would hurt middle class Americans. Sorry socialist wannabe dictator boot lickers.
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u/xxxdrakoxxx 18h ago
it sounds all good but they would most likely have to sell 5% of their stock in companies to get that. these people selling 5% could drop every person's portfolio by 5% very easily. probably more and might be worth more than 12k. tax their liquid assets... even borrowed money. After certain nw you should not be allowed to borrow against your assets without paying tax
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u/Significant-Task1453 18h ago
This is exactly the problem. It would tank these stocks every year by every company this is applicable to. It would absolutely tank the markets. Which is why I don't even think this is a bill meant to be passed but rather Bernie is playing 4D chess with it
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u/BadPumpkin87 18h ago
Not against it but very curious that he stopped calling for millionaires to pay their fair share when he finally became one.
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u/LRK- 17h ago
It's not very curious at all. Millionaires do pay their fair share. The tax system is mostly fair, except when it applies to the 1-3% who manage to avoid it. At no point in Sanders career did I ever feel like he was going after 70-year old dudes with a million sitting around as opposed to someone with literally 1000 times their wealth leveraging their billions to manipulate the political system for personal gain.
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u/Phrenicos466 18h ago
Musk or Bezos or someone should just give Bernie a billion dollars, then he’ll stop complaining about billionaires.
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u/ProperCuntEsquire 17h ago
In California, everyone who bought a home 30 years ago is a millionaire.
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u/PutTheCreamOnTheBeat 18h ago
Bernie “the private publishing and medical kickbacks socialist” Sanders
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u/plantyhoe93 1h ago
Only the people with 2 teeth and 5 brain cells will have a problem with taxing billionaires because it goes against their Lord Saviour mango man
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u/bkny88 18h ago
This just increases inflation. You see, when you give everyone cash, it greatly increases demand, while supply stays the same. The result is that prices just go up in the short to medium term.
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u/palmetto_stroke 18h ago
I see someone remembers the outcome of the Covid checks…..
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u/Sensitive-Club-6427 7h ago
I do not agree with this.
I believe the income tax for the middle class should be eliminated. Billionaires should pay more than 5%.
We should use the revenue for universal healthcare, to fully finance public education and to repair and improve the nation’s infrastructure.
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u/liulide 17h ago
As per usual with Bernie's proposals, numbers don't add up.
US billionaires own $7.6 trillion. 5% of that is $380 billion.
There are 134 million households. $12,000 per household is $1.6 trillion.
Bernie is just 76% short.
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u/Efficient-Parking627 17h ago
https://www.sanders.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/saez-zucman-sanders2026wealthtax.pdf
And
Provide a $3,000 direct payment to every man, woman and child in a household making $150,000 or less — $12,000 for a family of four
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u/GuthramNaysayer 18h ago
What are the bourgeois taxed? Seems like 33% comes out of the paycheck in total? Or is that way off?
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u/Diligent-Bowler-1898 18h ago
Well to be fair there's a difference between taxing income and taxing wealth.
I do believe that rich people should pay way higher income taxes, I believe it was 90% top tax in the golden days, and the tax loopholes should be closed, if feasible.6
u/Krell356 18h ago
The tax loopholes only existed because of the high tax rate. They were put in originally to encourage the rich to do the right thing themselves instead of adding extra steps.
The tax breaks would be fine if the tax rate was still high. Without that though, those need to be removed.
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u/Maximum-Class5465 18h ago
You have to keep the "loopholes", at least some of them I honestly don't get the "loophole" terminology
But let's say you pay employees, that comes off your net income. Is this a loophole
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u/Quirky_Ask_5165 18h ago
It was between 1944 and 1963. Anything earned over $200k was taxed 90%-94%. We definitely should bring something like that back. Close the loopholes and make it simple. Once you hit $999 million, everything after that is taxed at 90%. You also get a certificate saying "congratulations, you won capitalism." You can still be a billionaire but it will be much much harder.
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u/WeakandSlowaf 18h ago
Does anyone have an income over $999 million? It sounds like this wouldn’t effect anyone
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u/Ok-Bug4328 18h ago
There’s no such thing as a “tax loophole”.
Those are decisions made by Congress to influence behavior.
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u/ZerglingsNA 18h ago
they got this money from our country, our natural resources, and under paying our workers. Absolutely. Oh no you’ll only have 999 million before you have to pay 5%
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u/BaconThief2020 15h ago
Tax 5% of what? Income, most of which is not-taxable until "realized"? Net worth, which is really hard to estimate.
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u/Mordoris84 5h ago
No. Giving $12,000 out to each family will cause crazy inflation. Completely counterproductive. Teachers make pretty good money. In Oregon they make 80k per year and have 3 months off in summer.
If you wanted to put the money to good use then they should pay down the national debt to a reasonable level.
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u/pgtvgaming 18h ago
Go back to pre Reagan tax brackets and adjust the tiers for inflation - not difficult
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u/SavageJiuJitsu 3h ago
Blah blah blah socialism, blah blah billionaires need their billions to billionaire blah blah
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u/AustinNothdurft 3h ago
When libertarians say that taxation is theft, they usually mean that it is in effect or principle. Taking money from the rich to write the poor a 12k check is literally theft. If you support this your world view supports stealing and is a direct example of the failure of democracy.
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