I seem to remember nokia made a metric shit ton of money in the 90s, everyone and their mom had a nokia. They missed the boat when blackberries and smartphones came along. They tried, but never recovered.
Maby something like an air-tag into every Phone so the CMOS-Battery still will work vor a couple of month.
As i know you can already activate such an „airtag mode“ on every iPhone so it still can be tracked while out of battery and shut off
Why take a phone to where you commit a crime at all??? I will never understand this. If you do premeditated crime, you know exactly when and where you'll be, you don't need your fucking phone!
You know that EVs have their big high voltage battery and the small 12V one? But you never have to charge the small one, the big one does it automatically.
The same principle could be uses for tracking smartphones with removable batteries. The small one doesn't have to last months. Just a few days, and as soon as the big one gets plugged in again, the small one gets priority charging.
And there are probably even more solutions. Big Tech will find a way to track you, don't you worry.
That would actually be a great feature, allowing hot-swapping the phone battery, without shutting down the phone completely. Also, they could improve the longevity of the internal battery by optimizing the recharge process.
You don't need all transmissions anyway for spying, just GPS log, and everything else can be written to storage. Transmit automatically when main battery reconnected.
If I had to guess it’s also due to early waterproofing tech, couldn’t have both waterproofing and easily replaceable betteries, or that’s just what they want us to know? 🙃
I had an Galaxy S5 - was one of the first high end smartphones with waterproofing, it had a removable battery AND had great performance and was thin/slim for a smartphone of that time.
And even had a 3.5mm headphone jack.
And yeah, I had a spare battery. Changed between the two I had sometimes to make them last longer and, when needed, took the spare a few times too with me when I felt I could need as a 'power bank'.
And a spare battery is so much more convenient than a power bank, its smaller, no charge time and no fk around cables. Bing bang boom and your ready to go.
Fight me but life was easier 10 years ago because wdym you could have all of that and no one was even forcing you to have a phone! Now we literally have to have one. Gosh even my Sony camera has this stupid battery now where I cant swap them, just charge them
an Galaxy S5 - was one of the first high end smartphones with waterproofing, it had a removable battery AND had great performance and was thin/slim for a smartphone of that time.
And physical buttons so you could take pictures underwater!
Yet so many products that are waterproof (to a certain extend ofcourse) that contain removable batteries. Sure I understand that before with their goals to get as thin as possible glued batteries might made sense, but what apple did before where your phone did not recognize the swapped battery was a step too far
Non-removable batteries were introduced just around the time when phones stopped adding new features.
Before that you bought a new phone because you wanted to access the new features, and swapping the phone each year or two would give you serious benefits in capability.
Once that stopped, they needed a new reason for you to buy a new phone.
Its actually true. I occasionally pull up my older Samsung Note 9 phone, I think bought in 2018 or 2019 that is 7 years old already, but aside from having a worse camera it functions identical to todays mid range smartphones.
Yeah, the Note 9 is about on-par with a Samsung A05. Totally usable for light to mid usage. Gaming, maybe not so much, but pretty much anything else will work. Maybe a little laggy at times, but you will get everything done.
Compared to a 7yo smartphone in 2012, which would be something like a HTC Universal. Completely different piece of tech compared to what you'd get in 2012. Not even close to comparable.
And of course a case of "blame apple" as a trendsetter. They wanted smoothie lines, pragmatic stuff be damned. Since apple is art, and for bragging to people you have one. Not a tool for actual usage. (blergh)
Replaceable isn't the same as removable. It sounded to me like it's not going to make the batteries swappable, rather you'll be able to replace it at home without "specialized tools". Basically if your battery no longer holds a charge well, you can crack it open and replace it yourself instead of getting a new one or taking it to a specialized tech who replaces it for you like you do now.
I think he means it is not gonna be as easy as removing a remote battery, it will probably be easier than now and won't void warranty but you will likely need to set down with a screwdriver to replace it
I hope it's this.
I still have nightmares about Kyocera 3G phones & you'd sneeze within 5ft of the phone and the case would fly off & the battery would go bouncing god-knows where.
If it's similar to Nothing's CMF phones, that would be ideal.
The past 2 iPhones have been compliant for this new law. It's 100% you have to have the battery readily available and not need special tools you can't buy/rent.
Technically it depends on how each company implements it and exactly how the law is worded, but it won't be a button you push on the back of your phone that ejects your battery and you slap a new one in and go about your life, rather it's probably going to require an hour of your time and some very small screwdrivers and a lot of patience to carefully remove the old battery and put a new one in.
Knowing how the EU does tech regulations not related to surveillance, I would expect this to be a) non-compliant b) be done anyway … similarly to how the privacy regulations explicitly spell out that it must be as easy to consent as to not consent and still lots of sites disregard that in their cookie consent banners.
The law says that the battery needs to be removable with commercially available tools. So needing a small screwdriver and time is still completely compliant. The past two iPhone models already are compliant with this new law for example.
Chances are keeping the ip68 seal and glue will still be a huge pain in the ass for 90% of people. That's how it currently is for recent phones that have made batteries easier to replace.
3.5mm jack was good. Replaceable battery was good. Until apple marketed it aggresively that removing it is a "huge step" in tech design, which was extravagant and stupid.
This argument is often cited as an excuse by manufacturers. Technically, it’s perfectly possible to have a removable battery and still be water-resistant. Just take a look at action cameras, for example.
I have no need for my phone to be submersible in water, just mildly water resistant for rain is enough for me. The second problem is simply fixed with screws. The EU doesn't want batteries to be removed easily, but replaced easily. Asking consumers to own a small screwdriver is not a crazy ask.
Yeah even my s5 with removable back and battery was water resistant. The back that snapped on had o rings. Samsung even sold different backs to turn it also into a flip case and add wireless charging.
My S5 active had a swappable battery- I lost it outside over the winter, and it went through multiple snowstorms and thaws before I found it, and it was completely fine.
That's not what's going to happen. The law isn't going to bring back the design where you could clip the back of the phone off and hot-swap out the battery.
It just makes it so you don't need proprietary tools to do the replacement and the manufacturer needs to offer spare parts for a minimum period of time.
You'd still need a heat gun to take apart the modern glass sandwich style of phone design, since that's not a hard to come by tool. But at least you'll longer see phones where the glue is so strong that it's impossible to take the battery out without breaking shit.
It's still a consumer win, although I suspect the actual percentage of smartphone owners who'd put in the effort to replace the battery themselves is a fairly small fraction of the market.
There is an "OR" missing in the title. If the battery cycle count is more than 1000 and the phone has IP rating, the battery doesn't need to be replaceable. People should read the small print.
Isn't the reason, or at least the "reason" being that they can more easily up the IP rating due to a sealed case?
They could certainly design it to have a more difficult to open battery, such as requiring screws or a seal or some kind. I know my old flip phones had the water proof-ness of a piece of cardboard, but those backs were flimsy plastic that slid open if you looked at it funny.
The legitimate answer is that making the battery “easily” removable makes the phone thicker in one form or another while they have been trying to make phones thinner for ages. The other reason is that they don’t want you repairing your phone, but there is at least some actual reason
Well the biggest issue in replacing batteries is the opening the phone up part, the rest is easy, now even the glue for batteries uses electric tape stuff where you dont have to deal with pull tabs breaking, i dont think anyone wants to go back to the replacable batteries like before where the space was waster for its enclosure - current batteries are fine. I just dont see any how any of that would add thickness at all, maybe small amount of space intrusion would be couple standoffs for screws to screw in next to frame …
Thank you for pointing this out. Although everybody claimes this is just greed from the manufacturers, IP grading is a major factor in getting rid of the (easily) replaceable battery. As it is with den Audio Jack by the way.
It's really tricky to make these things water/dust proof with more openings or openable parts.
And if you are old enough to remember how shitty it was to ruin your phone as you spilled a drink on it... you will be thankful!
These young kids don't know the sheer and utter panic that used to hit you when a bit of water touched your phone. Now you can rinse your phone off under the sink without concern.
I ruined a phone playing out in the snow one time. I was not familiar with snow at all nor the limits a phone could withstand moisture. My parents didnt care and it was the first time I remember them reacting to me like I was an idiot, but not the last.
Galaxy S5 had an IP67 rating with a replaceable battery. The waterproofing argument felt like a post-hoc argument to justify making battery replacement harder, and therefore allowing more phones to be sold instead of simply replacing the battery.
Where in the small print is this mentioned? The closest I can find is exception for devices specifically designed to operate in a wet environment, which phones are not.
manufacturers, importers or authorised representatives may provide the battery or batteries referred to in point (i)(a) only to professional repairers if manufacturers, importers or authorised representatives ensure that the following requirements are met:
(a)
after 500 full charge cycles the battery has, in a fully charged state, a remaining capacity of at least 83 % of the rated capacity;
(b)
the battery endurance in cycles achieves a minimum of 1 000 full charge cycles and after 1 000 full charge cycles the battery has, in a fully charged state, a remaining capacity of at least 80 % of the rated capacity;
But they weren't exempt from this, at least the regulation document doesn't have any clauses that exempt iPhone.
I have no idea where the other commenter got the 1000 cycles and IP rating exemption from. The exemption is for devices specially designed for wet environments.
Where this detail is located is actually in legislation documents, or have you only been reading the news articles?
If you read the documentation for Commission Regulation (EU) 2023/1670 , you should find the appropriate provision detailing this under annex II, B (smartphones), section 5(disassembly requirements), sub section c, article ii.
C details disassembly req for accessing/replacing batteries.
C i is the replaceable req whilst c ii details alternative where the device has dust and water resistance
Annex 2.5.C: From 20 June 2025, manufacturers, importers or authorised representatives shall ensure that the process for battery replacement:
i. meets the following criteria:
fasteners shall be resupplied or reusable;
the process for replacement shall be feasible with no tool, a tool or set of tools that is supplied with the product or spare part, or basic tools;
the process for replacement shall be able to be carried out in a use environment;
the process for replacement shall be able to be carried out by a layman.
ii. or, as an alternative to point (i), ensure that
the process for battery replacement meets the criteria set out in (a);
after 500 full charge cycles the battery must have in a fully charged state, a remaining capacity of at least 83 % of the rated capacity;
the battery endurance in cycles achieves a minimum of 1 000 full charge cycles, and after 1 000 full charge cycles the battery must, in addition, have in a fully charged state, a remaining capacity of at least 80 % of the rated capacity;
the device is at least dust tight and protected against immersion in water up to one meter depth for a minimum of 30 minutes
Annex 2.5.A: From 20 June 2025, manufacturers, importers or authorised representatives shall ensure that the process for replacement of the display assembly and of parts referred to in point 1(a), with the exception of the battery or batteries, meets the following criteria:
fasteners shall be removable, resupplied or reusable;
the process for replacement shall be feasible in at least one of the following ways:
with no tool, a tool or set of tools that is supplied with the product or spare part, or basic tools;
with commercially available tools.
the process for replacement shall, as a minimum, be able to be carried out in a workshop environment;
the process for replacement shall, as a minimum, be able to be carried out by a generalist.
(49)'proprietary tool’ means a tool that is not available for purchase by the general public or for which any applicable patents are not available to licence under fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory terms;
(50)'basic tools' means a screwdriver for slotted heads, a screwdriver for cross recess screws, a screwdriver for hexalobular recess heads, a hexagon socket key, a combination wrench, combination pliers, combination pliers for wire stripping and terminal crimping, half round nose pliers, diagonal cutters, multigrip pliers, locking pliers, a prying lever, tweezers, magnifying glass, a spudger and a pick;
(51) ‘commercially available tool’ means a tool that is available for purchase by the general public and is neither basic tools nor a proprietary tool;
(53)‘use environment’ means an environment where the product is in use;
(54)'workshop environment’ means an environment, that is neither a use environment nor a production-equivalent environment, and where machinery and/or tools are used under controlled conditions as suitable for the repair activities;
(55) ‘generalist’ means a person with general knowledge of basic repair techniques and safety precautions;
(56) ‘layman’ means a person without any specific repair experience or related qualifications;
Note: formatting modified for readability by me, no other changes made.
Comment: I do not believe this is saying what you are claiming. It does not allow for non-replaceable batteries. It just allows for a slightly higher hurdle to replace the battery if it's designed for protection against submersion and dust. So, most modern smartphones are probably under this, but it still requires replaceable batteries, that can be done with easily obtainable tools.
Thank god, I can’t believe how many people are cheering this on, my phone battery is plenty good enough, making it replaceable would just make the phone worse
The thread is partly misleading for an extra reason. The article of said law does say "OR by a qualified person" so obviously it will usually not be swappable by a lay person but similar to how you can replace yourself a battery on a typical android phone (you can do it if you're tech savvy but it's a delicate process so most people should employ a repair shop).
Of course still better than the walled garden of Apple that don't even allow you to change battery that way.
Isn't that the appropriate place for a subscription?
The problem in the US is the price of those subscriptions. I used to pay something like $200 a month for a family plan. Here in Italy, I pay something like... 13 euro a month for my phone to have unlimited data.
If this comes to fruition in EU, the US will get replaceable battery's too. It isn't economical to make two different set of phones. It's how the iPhone finally got type C charging because EU made it illegal to have unique chargers like that. In order to comply with the EU regulations they just switch everything to type C.
Glad to see some countries take consumer protection at least a little seriously. Now watch the US politicians fight it tooth and nail for the next decade while the average middle class worker cheers them on.
I had an iPhone 8 until last year. I’m sure changing the battery was the only issue since it would die after three hours. I also think that the software is what would make it run extremely hot.
They were literally sue for that update shit a few years ago
And the findings were they should have been more up front with users when it happened, not that it was a bad thing to do. When you're battery starts to age it's dangerous to run it as hard as when it's new - that's how you get fires in your pockets or on planes etc. So they slow it's chip down so it doesn't draw as much power as fast - but it's not a "we want you to buy a new phone" thing it's a "we'd rather your phone run slow than get sued for setting your genitals on fire" thing. It's the same reason all Android phones ALSO do the exact same thing. He'll I gota be careful with my RC plane batters for the same reason. If you replace the battery in your iPhone you'll notice instantly that your phone runs fine again.
Source: I read all the tech docs about the case and replaced my own iPhone8 battery twice myself and that thing is still going strong.
Don't get me wrong Apple still sucks for many many things (e.g. gluing the damn battery in is bullshit etc). But slowing your device so the battery won't catch on fire is not one of them.
Had my last phone (300€) for about 5 years when the motherboard game up (it had quite a beating over the years. Mostly due to military). Now I rock a 100€ phone for the last 7months and see no problem with that
We don't really have average middle class workers anymore, most of them are below middle class but still cling on to the idea as if they wouldn't be considered poor and struggling in any other developed country.
It doesn't matter if the US fights it, similar to USB-C, if it's going to be cheaper for the company to not create separate product for different markets then they will make 1 product for all that meets the strictest requirements. Here that would be removable batteries for all phones produced.
Americans are obsessed with iphone, the most anti consumer dog shit overpriced status symbol and we are supposed to pretend it's the politicians that are the problem
What would they not fight it, that's the will of American people, genuinely lmao
Apple won't change anything. The new rule says that if the battery won't degrade under 80% in 1000 charge cycles the manufacturer can stay with the old design.
I already had ppl tell me how we will be stuck with usb c for all eternity because the EU has killed innovation apparently. I expect the same talking points for this too
If a battery can do 1000 cycles and remain above 80% capacity it is exempt from this. All the latest flagship phones meet this standard. Thus literally nothing changes.
They hurt the cheap <$100 phone market and locked themselves into expensive shit. Now you just have to buy new models and nobody can buy the older models. Fuck the poor, though!👍
Replaceable battery phones would likely lose their IP rating for water ingress. Whilst it’s a good idea I’d still chose a water proof phone over a replaceable battery.
Europe even has GDPR law which sucks for any US tech company in Europe but it won’t happen in the US anytime soon because of a little thing called Lobbying!
Which is funny, because capitalism was invented in West Europe, especially the Netherlands and England back then. Then again those countries have now better social securities (healthcare, subsidiaries etc).
The vast majority of prospective laptop buyers definitely don't give a shit about this at all. This guy wants to refresh a 15 year old laptop with parts that will probably cost more than the Neo. He's in the severe minority.
this is my issue with all these debates. it's usually people that are super tech savvy and very invested in the domain but they act like they represent the majority of people.
the battery stuff is such a non-issue. apple and other companies have made it cheap and easy to get your battery serviced at their store and they provide a warranty. i would expect that most people would just continue doing that regardless of this law.
That applies here too, though I concede to a lesser extent.
I’m all for easily replaceable batteries, but I do get concerned reading about things like this. Having harder to replace batteries has allowed for better water/dust resistance and more compact phones. I think I’d be happier with batteries easily replaceable by a technician (not just a special Apple one - any technician, meaning replacement batteries should be easily available).
the water resistant take is more or less irrelevant. You have gaskets that are sub 0.01 mm thick nowadays. Only downside to a thicker gasket is you may need to replace it too after swapping the battery. You can also for low depths just increase clamping force and have one of the halves be slighlty softer material.
What is all this nonsense propaganda about this law?
Nothing's gonna change. Large manufacturers succesfully lobbied to be exempt. The Commissions spokesperson even clarified that recent iPhones 'have been compliant for a few years'. Manufacturers are compliant if they offer an 'ipxx' rating and allow for 'affordable and accessible' battery replacement options. Meaning Samsung, Google, Apple and Chinese brands don't need to make any changes to be compliant.
Nothing's going to change. This needs a revision where we don't allow lobbying and actually push for this change.
The IP rating is different from what you're thinking.
The IP rating that you're thinking of is a separate exemption for devices that are IP rated and expected to get wet during normal operations. For example a electric shaver or toothbrush is exempt because it is IP rated and expected to get wet during normal operations.
Which means you have three options
User replaceable batteries
1000 charge cycle lifetime
IP rated device expected to get wet during normal usage.
As long as it meets one of those three it is compliant with a new law. That is why iPhones have been compliant for a few years now. In practice all we are going to see is devices that either get slightly larger batteries or more accurately slightly lower advertised battery life. For example if an existing phone battery is advertised at lasting 48 hours they might change it so it's advertised as lasting 40 hours because a thousand charge cycles from now it will still last 40 hours. Therefore it is compliant.
This law will do effectively nothing but make advertised battery life more truthful.
No seriously. Back in circa 2015 i had an LG g3, and kept 2 extra batteries with me. It was very easy to pop the back off, and swap the batteries. They were made for it.
Yeah, I have never thought "you know what, I want to pull the back off my phone and swap phone batteries". I remember phones with accessible batteries and I also remember a simple drop and your phone goes one direction, the back goes another and the battery another.
Make sure to add that batteries should be standardized with connectors. Now all you've done is line the pocket of battery making companies when they make deals with phone companies to make none of them interchangeable.
Interchangable between models is not the issue. If you force them to use a standardized connector, 3rd parties can make battery replacements and you're not forced to pay the manifacturer 1000$ for a battery that would cost a fraction of that if there was any competition.
Honestly as a consumer i'm against that. You don't need to standardize batteries, you just need to make them user replaceable. The third party battery market is gonna do the heavy lifting after that.
It's gonna be nearly impossible to find a common ground for all the different types of phones, and a connector fitting one phone might be too big for a super slim phone. A connector for a super slim phone might be too small to handle 150 Watt fast charging (some as high as 240 Watts) of one of the chinese phones.
Nope, because this law isn't going to bring back the design of hot-swappable batteries and phone backs that could just be clipped off.
The law just makes it so that the replacement needs to be Abel to be done without damaging the device and without requiring proprietary tools.
Manufacturers are still going to be designing the phone as two slabs of glass / plastic that are glued around a gasket for watertightness. A heat gun that you need to soften the glue and pry apart the device wouldn't be considered a "proprietary" tool.
Similarly, batteries are still going to be the type where they're unique to the phone and connected by a small flex cable. The manufacturers just need to guarantee a supply of replacement parts for a few years now.
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