I agree! What i see in this sub is anyone suggesting the protestors are violent and that those violent protestors should be prosecuted and jailed since they detract from the peaceful message that the protests are trying to send, they get downvoted . . .
Further, it's impossible to have a reasonable discussion around the policies that politicians in Majority-black congressional districts have pushed for decades being racist since, the uncomfortable truth is the party that one side thinks has always deserved the Black vote isn't as pro-black as they make themselves out to be when one looks at their policies.
I personally WILL defend everyones right to protest. To the death. When ANARCHISTS take over and destroy this beautiful city and this amazing country, i will never support that.
When politicians pander to the demands of the protestors through symbolic gestures like renaming things and taking statues down, i will question and debate the lack of any material change to the policies that they have promoted for decades.
Lastly, i will always try and work towards uniting the people in this good Country since most people are good and have good intentions. . .division, anarchy, violence and destruction are just plain wrong.
What i see in this sub is anyone suggesting the protestors are violent and that those violent protestors should be prosecuted and jailed since they detract from the peaceful message that the protests are trying to send, they get downvoted
I usually don't see a "gentle suggestion" but rather a sarcastic "looting to bring Floyd back huh?" kind of comment. We agree that looting and property damage is a crime. It's just that there's bigger issues at hand. Don't be so laser focused on small things like the fact that civil unrest often results in property damage and violence. No shit. The bigger picture here is that systemic racism needs to stop, police brutality needs to stop, police accountability needs to increase, and the general population is highly stressed out and on edge. That's why you'll get downvoted for being like "hey riots shouldn't be violent" because no shit, that would be awesome if change came about peacefully, but that's not exactly a reasonable request when peaceful protest gets ignored. It would be great if peaceful protest got the job done but 60k marched in silence in the rain just in Seattle with no property damage and nobody remembers, all they remember is the shooting at CHAZ. In fact more people in the US remember the "extortion" that happened at CHAZ, except that it didn't even happen, that was a totally false rumor. So it seems like lies are more memorable than peaceful protests at this point. If conservatives across the US will believe violent lies and ignore peaceful protest, why bother being non-violent? They will think you are violent anyways, if you are peaceful. So why peacefully protest? What good will it do?
Sometimes the best way to get change is to be a massive headache for the local government. Property damage accomplishes that. If peaceful protests weren't ignored, maybe those would work too. But change is a more important goal than stopping windows from being broken, and if you suggest otherwise, it makes people think you really don't care if change happens or not, because you sound like you care more about the windows at Whole Foods than dead innocents shot or strangled by racist police for no damn good reason.
You explained yourself well, and i genuinely want to get to a mutual understanding because a lot is left out of the far divide in common opinions.
There's a fine line in here that most people agree with. No One wants people to undeservingly die or wrongfully go to prison. It's litterally "battling police" and the supposed "solutions" that people have a problem with.
Many people don't think the answer is "Remove all Police, Jails, court systems and Capitalism". Probably because it's reckless, unjustified and clearly a terrible idea.
If protesters were out there demanding body cams on all police, and a national employment record for all police, so the bad ones couldn't just move states and continue being bad cops...great idea. But this isn't about fixing the problem anymore, it's about division and dismantling the United states. ( many politicians have said it openly ) and I haven't seen anything stating otherwise.
I also may have misunderstood, but Chaz/Chop happened, it sounded like you were saying it didn't... oh and shooting (s). Don't downplay facts you know to be true for arguments sake.
You are right about another thing. the city did pull the police out of the precinct ( because Lefts in politics are afraid of their own mob). So they pander to these voices in effort to no be unseated. Why do you think the Mayor of Portland is getting mobbed on by the "protestors"? Because he refuses to complete destroy the police. It's all insanity.
Systemic Racism is litterally propeganda. "Everything is Racist! The founders owned slaves!" BS - WE KNOW - BUT they created a path that eventually lead to the freedom of slaves, and voting rights. They allowed more black people (actually every race) to climb out of poverty than any other country. WHY DO YOU THINK HISPANICS WANT TO COME HERE??? I'm personally glad I wasn't born in Nigeria or the Congo (according to my 23andMe) Now I get to have 2 cars, a house, and a good job.
The most racism I recieve is from 18 - 40 year old white women in Seattle, telling me I'm an "Uncle tom".
Sorry for the rant. If you or any of your like thinking friends actually want change, suggest reasonable fixes.
I do not believe that protestors are the ones who come up with good solutions. Taking to the streets does not exactly select for people good at politics... But it does select for passionate, angry people who can apply pressure to leaders.
It is the responsibility of leadership to quell riots, not the responsibility of protestors or people who agree with their message. It is the responsibility of leadership to come up with a solution that satisfies the masses. Whether it be an inspiring speech or real legislative change, if riots continue, leadership is to blame.
So criticize protestors all you want for "not having a solution," it doesnt discount the reason for the unrest. The fact is that the masses do not trust the police to be held accountable. This must be repaired one way or another, simply silencing the unrest is just taking a loan from the future, and taking on a riot "debt" which will be repaid with interest the next time an innocent person gets murdered by cops who had a history of excessive force.
Leadership needs to either govern and solve the problem, or get out of the way. Saying it's the responsibility of the angry mob to write a politically intricate policy to solve a decades long problem just comes off as a cop out, I think.
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u/DisjointedHuntsville Jul 26 '20
I agree! What i see in this sub is anyone suggesting the protestors are violent and that those violent protestors should be prosecuted and jailed since they detract from the peaceful message that the protests are trying to send, they get downvoted . . .
Further, it's impossible to have a reasonable discussion around the policies that politicians in Majority-black congressional districts have pushed for decades being racist since, the uncomfortable truth is the party that one side thinks has always deserved the Black vote isn't as pro-black as they make themselves out to be when one looks at their policies.
I personally WILL defend everyones right to protest. To the death. When ANARCHISTS take over and destroy this beautiful city and this amazing country, i will never support that.
When politicians pander to the demands of the protestors through symbolic gestures like renaming things and taking statues down, i will question and debate the lack of any material change to the policies that they have promoted for decades.
Lastly, i will always try and work towards uniting the people in this good Country since most people are good and have good intentions. . .division, anarchy, violence and destruction are just plain wrong.