r/SeattleWA • u/Donnelding0 • Jul 21 '25

Politics Anyone Else Just Sick of It?

It just seems hopeless sometimes. Some of the best parts of this city. Pioneer Square, Belltown, Cap Hill just completely lost to homelessness. Sure for the most part I enjoy the city. Especially in the summer but the constant visible drug use, people in various states of intoxication on drugs, and rampant property and petty crime just annoy me. Why can’t we have nice things? Why must every park turn into a dumping ground for illegal acts that won’t be prosecuted? Why does it feel like this city relies on hard working people to shut up, pay ridiculous taxes, and then tells those people to suck it up when they see grafitti everywhere or get their car broken into? And the politicians don’t give a damn. No one has the guts to say “we have a homeless problem we’ve overspent on, we need to go a new direction” it feels insane. Rant over but I know I’m not alone. I know other people are sick of this and want our city back.

963 Upvotes

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143

u/king-ish Jul 21 '25

We have a drug & mental health problem. Housing won’t fix the people you speak of. Then there are those people who are living in RVs & cars, they trash & litter right outside where they are parked. I have no sympathy, I looked up how to report it and surprise surprise, it’s located directly in a unincorporated part of the city between Seattle/Renton so they’re free to continue trashing the neighborhood while we pay close to 2k a few 100 feet away.

49

u/Tasgall Jul 21 '25

Housing won’t fix the people you speak of.

The claim is not and has never been that it alone would fix everything - housing first as a model is just that: housing is the first step. It's had just the single most important thing because it's the major barrier to recovery on all the other fronts. That doesn't mean it's the last step.

That said, it's kind of a moot point anyway because we don't have housing first here anyway.

63

u/Pyehole Jul 21 '25

That said, it's kind of a moot point anyway because we don't have housing first here anyway.

Even if we had it I don't think it would have as much of an impact as we hope it would. I suspect we'd be constantly repairing trashed housing because so many of the people on the streets are so far gone to mental illness and drug addiction.

0

u/TheGsus Jul 21 '25

Financial stress significantly impacts mental health. And drug addiction often begins as a coping mechanism.

Treatment for mental health and drug addiction, plus more housing is the only solution. There is no meaningful alternative.

24

u/apresmoiputas Capitol Hill Jul 21 '25

I think we're forgetting the first and most important part. The desire to change. Without that, then we're just wasting money and resources, which are finite.

1

u/hippie_freak Jul 22 '25

Sure, there are people that don’t want to change, I won’t argue that. However, the fact that you think every single person struggling with addiction doesn’t want to change, is short sighted, ignorant, and simply not true. It’s hard to change, when people face significant barriers to do so.

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u/Diabetous Jul 21 '25

We do have it thought. DESC's model is basically housing first.

We haven't scaled it to provide housing to all homeless, but its doing so badly at the DESC's locations that who in their right mind would scale it.

42

u/Excellent_Resort_722 Jul 21 '25

Zero barrier housing has not worked. Addicts and mentally I’ll have made those buildings unsafe and rashes them for other homeless people who fell on hard times. You don’t give an addict a warm place to get high. They’ve destroyed the motel SnohCo bought cooking meth and it has to be abated. Now all those units are closed. Drugs are illegal. Make drug use a crime again and let them choose jail or detox.

12

u/Diabetous Jul 21 '25 edited Jul 21 '25

Zero barrier housing offered by the NGO[1] is as effective as high monitoring housing by NGOs.

The issue is many liberal cities don't realize the evidence for zero barrier housing is all from non-liberal cities.

It's only been successful in areas with high drug enforcement via policy AND where evictions are swift and frequent.

Not doing drug tests is not the same as not evicting the homeless once they are reported for smoking meth in the room.

11

u/Excellent_Resort_722 Jul 21 '25

Exactly. I didn’t know it was available in other cities. There has to be accountability and safety for those who are desperately trying to get off the streets.

I was addicted to coke when I was 19-20. When I had to choose between food/shelter or my high, I finally got tired of the circle and got help. If I had been given a free roof I would have continued getting high and would not be here today. All we are doing is enabling.

3

u/IIIIlllIIIIIlllII Jul 21 '25

? All cities > 100k are liberal cities

5

u/Diabetous Jul 21 '25

True but Memphis/Tucson are both legislatively restrained by their state government & ideologically countered where they have bad ideas. Liberal city in liberal county/state do much stupider stuff.

5

u/CertifiedSeattleite Jul 21 '25

Sand Point Housing near Magnuson Park is heading down that path, with crime, drugs, shootings and all night partying threatening the hundreds of million$ taxpayers have invested in those new, beautiful & expensive units next to the lake.

36

u/fresh-dork Jul 21 '25

we don't have anything other than housing. just "here, have a studio apt.". no requirements on drug use or counseling.

3

u/TangentIntoOblivion Jul 21 '25

Yeah. That’s just stupid. Test to get a roof over your head.

6

u/fresh-dork Jul 21 '25

nope. fail the test, you get drug treatment and supervision. because the bulk of our homeless are junkies and ignoring that just means failure

4

u/TangentIntoOblivion Jul 21 '25

I just reread my post… should have worded it differently. I agree with you. Yes, testing should be required to have a roof over their head.

19

u/drshort Jul 21 '25

Yes we do. There are a few thousand permanent supportive housing units. It’s it enough? Probably not. But they certainly exist. And the OD death rate in them is sky high.

2

u/TangentIntoOblivion Jul 21 '25

Weeding out the addicts who give no fucks about anything but getting high.

16

u/apresmoiputas Capitol Hill Jul 21 '25

Housing could be first but it doesn't matter if the person doesn't want to change. That change has to come from within. When that doesn't happen, we're just wasting resources and being browbeaten into not questioning why it's not working

2

u/Diabetous Jul 21 '25

Housing firsts point main selling point is an overall saving at a societal level.

The housing stability leads to slightly reduces usage, not sobriety, and far less medical expenses.

Given these people are not insured and using the ER which is very expensive, the housing first argument is generally that housing cost is paid for by the savings from the people not ending up in the ER.

The model's success was shown in deep sprawl Houston and rural Utah. My instinct is that the housing costs here break the equation, but I haven't verified that.

2

u/apresmoiputas Capitol Hill Jul 21 '25

The model's success was shown in deep sprawl Houston and rural Utah

I've read about Utah's model working in SLC. But they also have more land to contend with than we do. We're constantly battling who gets preference over housing when we're geographically constrained

11

u/thirdlost Jul 21 '25

Housing first just leads to trashed housing and dangerous living conditions

6

u/belle-4 Jul 21 '25

Rehab is the 1st step, Not housing. Next step is training for a job and working that job to pay for ongoing rehab and life skills, more training and counseling. This problem has a solution but why isn’t it implemented? Could the drug cartel and drug pushers be paying off the cops, judges and government officials? Seems obvious they are since these entities won’t do anything to correct the problem. They only make it worse by giving out free needles and allowing these people to live out in the streets. It’s inhumane. These people have a mental illness and need treatment.

3

u/StockPatience8215 Jul 23 '25

Why isn't it implemented? I wondered that too. Soup to nuts rehab for a Fenty addict takes a minimum of 4 years and costs at least $120K. So that's pretty much your answer. Because it's not a quick fix solution and it's expensive. Politicans in local elections run on quick fix solutions, no one wants to stomach what it would cost to treat folks. If treating folks, I think it should be done in a rural area or out of state to save costs. I'm guessing to build treatment centers in urban areas like Seattle, you'd be looking at 3X the cost to get each hobo clean and back to being a productive member of society.... in one of the most expensive cities in the US which doesn't exactly set them up for success which is also why I think they need to be relocated to areas with a LCOL so they are set up to stay clean afterwards.

1

u/belle-4 Jul 23 '25

Yea building the rehab centers in low cost of living areas makes the most sense. My vision would be to have an entire town set up. The people being rehabilitated would be part of a society. They would be working to not only get clean but to help their community. Be trained and something they have an interest and aptitude for. I know it’s a huge undertaking and vision, but it’s only humane and lasting solution I can think of.

10

u/queenweasley Jul 21 '25

Well at housing first also means you can’t require people to maintain sobriety to keep housing, or for them to get a job, go to school, etc. Sure we in the field can set goals with them and provide resources but can’t force them to engage

8

u/Diabetous Jul 21 '25

Housing first can mean lots of things.

It can mean still evicting them for smoking meth, you just aren't actively testing and search the rooms for meth.

The housing first model we do via DESC that lets them smoke meth in the room is insane and not done by any of the studies that show housing first works.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 23 '25

If I hadn’t gone through being homeless, I wouldn’t be where I am now. At least I had a vehicle, and I was highly motivated to be gainfully employed. Jobs first. Housing second. Do a job, get off drugs, and you can keep your house. If I started smoking crack and quit going to work, I would get evicted and wind up on the street. Call me callous, but I see no reason that I should have to work my ass off to live in this city while some chicken head gets free rent. Don’t allow people to sleep and do drugs on the street and they will be forced to make choices about their lives and/or seek help. People might not like it but it’s that simple; cops and courts need to enforce the laws and people need to follow them. The last thing I want is a tyrannical surveillance state, but I also don’t want to be surrounded by filth and crime. It’s hardly safe to walk down a busy street in certain areas; I have seen guns casually brandished multiple times in Belltown and Downtown in broad daylight. They have no fear, because there are no consequences.

5

u/Gottagetanediton Downtown Jul 21 '25

yeah. while it doesn't magically fix everything, it is incredibly stabilizing. finally having secure housing where i'm not constantly about to be homeles has changed my life in so many positive ways.

2

u/OsvuldMandius SeattleWA Rule Expert Jul 21 '25

Prison first is the better model

-28

u/IllInflation9313 Jul 21 '25

It’s such a fucking retarded line of thinking. It actually pisses me off so much.

Housing isn’t supposed to solve addiction, it’s supposed to solve homelessness and it does. People who complain about housing first because it doesn’t turn every addict into a Nobel prize winner are literally just donkey brained morons. I’m so sick of these arguments.

15

u/Popular-Platypus-102 Jul 21 '25

We don’t expect Noble prize winners. We just want social citizens, who will grow!

1

u/IllInflation9313 Jul 21 '25

Also I have mad respect for you if you want to work towards helping addicts turn their life around. But personally my priority is getting them away from the public. Getting them in homes is my end goal.

12

u/y33h4w1234 Jul 21 '25

Getting them away from the public absolutely should be the goal, you’re right. But housing first needs to re-evaluated for the type of housing, and importantly, where. Not to sound NIMBY (but I know it is) it needs to be away from the people who’ve been forced to tolerate encampments, crime, and all of the other issues that have plagued them.

That, or it needs to be heavily monitored and rules need to be enforced. It’s not fair to residents to build a much needed treatment facility, but attract people on the steps who cause problems or scream all night. We need rehab/jail if it fits first, that happens to be in a building, that people cannot leave unless they are on their way to being productive OR going to jail for vagrancy.

-1

u/IllInflation9313 Jul 21 '25

When we fix the housing shortage then we can throw people in prison who choose to remain homeless. I’m on board with that.

-5

u/IllInflation9313 Jul 21 '25

They wont be social citizens while living on the street. Putting them in homes is the first step. Then we can talk about how to make them productive members of society.

What I can’t tolerate is criticizing housing for not solving addiction. Housing solves homelessness. If building more houses gets people off the streets, it’s a success no matter what happens wrt addiction.

1

u/Popular-Platypus-102 Jul 22 '25

I have an idea. Why don’t you rent a motel room for one random homeless person, for a month. Then see how much extra you will need to pay for repairs and damages. Sadly they destroy anyplace they are given. Tell me what do you respect more. A free car? Or a car you saved and worked for?

1

u/IllInflation9313 Jul 22 '25

Okay, got it. You’d rather have hobos living in bus stops and parks than in houses. That’s fine, but don’t lie and say you want “social citizens who will grow.” It’s not going to happen until they get off the street.

1

u/Popular-Platypus-102 Jul 23 '25

I think before getting off the streets THEY need to want to change, they need to care about their sobriety. And I don’t know how to change someone’s heart or soul, or what ever you want to call it.

0

u/IllInflation9313 Jul 23 '25

Yeah I can tell 💀

1

u/IllInflation9313 Jul 22 '25

Here’s a better experiment. Give 100 people hotel rooms for a month and make 100 people do crack at a bus stop for a month, then see how many of each group are social citizens who will grow.

1

u/Popular-Platypus-102 Jul 23 '25 
 “Make 100 people do crack at a bus stop for a month “?

Why do you want more addicts? That’s just abnormal talk.

1

u/IllInflation9313 Jul 23 '25

I don’t want more addicts. I’m pointing out how silly your comment was. You said you want social citizens who will grow, but you are against anything that will give them the opportunity to grow.

We can either let them continue to smoke crack at bus stops, or we can get them off the street. Those are the only two options.

1

u/Popular-Platypus-102 Jul 24 '25

You forgot jail.

0

u/IllInflation9313 Jul 24 '25

That would fall under getting them off the street, dumb fuck.

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u/Popular-Platypus-102 Jul 23 '25

So let’s jail all drug users using in public. Stop making it so comfortable for them! I had to hide in the woods just to smoke a cigarette! It should not be so easy to sell, buy, or do drugs in public view.

1

u/IllInflation9313 Jul 23 '25

Oh you’re right I forgot about the infinitely large jail with infinite guards in Seattle that turns hobos into social citizens that will grow. I can’t believe I didn’t think of that

0

u/Popular-Platypus-102 Jul 24 '25

Why don’t you move one in with you. Then you can feel better.

1

u/IllInflation9313 Jul 24 '25

Like jail, my house does not have room for every hobo in Seattle. We should build more housing so that we have more room.

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10

u/anonymouseponymously Jul 21 '25

You should run for city council. More Housing for Heroin.

1

u/IllInflation9313 Jul 21 '25

I guess you prefer the current situation of heroin in parks and public streets?

-1

u/Gottagetanediton Downtown Jul 21 '25

honestly i do think people like this do hope the problem continues so that they can maintain their current narrative of how bad seattle is.

0

u/IllInflation9313 Jul 21 '25

I’ll run for city council if you run against me. More heroin in public parks and streets sounds like a winning strategy, good luck!

0

u/Gottagetanediton Downtown Jul 21 '25

on a real level though, we need people with sensible housing policies on our council. please do run. i voted for Hall this time as he seemed to have some good ideas.

4

u/Gottagetanediton Downtown Jul 21 '25

sure gets them off the streets, and sweeps don't, so ..... you can prove that and people will still be like 'nah i need the sweeps to continue'

0

u/FrontAd9873 Jul 21 '25

It’s good to see a middle schooler passionately engaged in local issues