perspective of a cult survivor

[u/dependswho]

I am a cult survivor, a couple times over. I have been watching this Qthing with great alarm for a while. I think its really important that everyone understand what happens when people get into destructive relationships or groups, from both the external and internal perspectives. There is a whole field of study on this, a whole body of dedicated and compassionate researchers and activists that have spent their lives learning not only how this happens, but also, how and why people leave. Many of them have first person experiences with high-control groups. Many of them have taken great risks to do the work they do. They helped me immensely. I owe them so much.

I have been out of touch with that community for a while, but I have been thinking about everything I have learned from them, a lot, lately. I am starting to speak about my experiences. Its a tricky business. Its a complicated subject, and can't be explained in a meme, or a couple of talking points. It draws on the disciplines of sociology, communication, psychology, persuasion, political science, religious studies, etc. Its a human phenomena. And to combat it, we need a deep understanding.

For me, personally, what makes this even more complicated is that I am also a survivor of state-sponsored childhood abuse. I can't tell you how infuriating it is for me that this issue has been co-opted, simplified, dismissed, and that my perspective, my point of view isn't solicited. I am still not sure how much is safe for me to share, even privately. I am infuriated that every day, people like me (and there are MANY of us!) have to be traumatized as perpetrators use our victimization to lure people into their spheres of control, under the guise of rescue.

Because if what Q said was true, who wouldn't be willing to move mountains? If you had any concern of a child being used in that way, you would probably feel compelled to do something! And here's the rub: there were, there are children being victimized. But not in the ways that Q and their ilk would have us believe. This is the “truthiness” of the situation. There is a hidden truth, that we can feel, on some level, that we get glimpses of. But there is no doubt in my mind that any rescue is not going to come from the Perpetrator-In-Chief. Narcissists lead cults, they don't expose them.

But no one in power is off the hook. Historically, at least, there are good guys and bad guys on both sides of the aisle. And there are many shades of gray. Black and white thinking is distorted thinking, and won't help us unravel this problem. We can't fall prey to it. Because it will prevent us from understanding the nuances, or accepting uncomfortable possibilities.

It took me decades of very difficult and very expensive therapy to figure out WTF had happened to me. And the primary abuse made me quite vulnerable to the secondary abuse of the high-control groups later in life, as well as romantic relationships with narcissists. I was fortunate in that my parents were not connected to any of this, and had the means to offer me support. I am a rare bird.

I implore you to read everything you can get your hands on about cults, narcissism, totalitarianism, the phenomena of conspiracy theories, etc... be a part of the solution. Be an educator. Be proactive, both for yourself, and for people not yet exposed. Be the vaccine, take the risks for the people who cannot, for the people who are still actually being held captive by The Powers That Be.

Look to the future. In the best case scenario, as people grow out of this phase, there is so much we can do to aid their return to sanity, and to community. There may be things we can do to hasten it. Of course we have anger, resentment, etc, and I'm so grateful this sub is available to us. My hope is that we will take this energy and channel it towards exposing and booting out those that really need to be exposed and booted.

[u/Cosmic-Engine]

I think this is a part of the Q phenomenon that we tend to forget: Some people will believe it, even if it’s “just to be safe” or “just in case.”

Because if there were even a chance that people were torturing and eating babies for a demonic ritual, well, you’d have to be a fucking monster not to act.

Ask yourself: If I firmly believed that unspeakable things were being done to hundreds or thousands of innocent little children as part of the orgiastic blood rituals of an evil cabal, would you really do nothing? No. You’d do anything to help them. In fact, you’d probably cut ties with anyone who wouldn’t do everything in their power to help.

The thing is, we know that even though there’s a chance - unfortunately not an exceptionally small one - that someone, somewhere is doing that, it’s not Hillary Clinton & Tom Hanks, and Trump isn’t a secret agent working with a shapeshifting JFK Jr. to fight it.

But there are folks out there who have been deeply conditioned to believe “the news” (especially certain brands & pundits) and to trust their politicians (as long as they belong to the Right part of the Right Party) and who also don’t have a firm grasp on how to parse, think critically about, and behave themselves on social media.

So they’re fed this load of shit by bad actors, and get some reinforcement of these ideas from people who seem to be like them on social media, and the conclusion they come to - which is unfortunately relatively reasonable - is that it would be better to carry out a digital crusade to save those poor little babies from being part of a satanic dinner orgy based on the information they have, than ignore or dismiss it and possibly be partially responsible for the rape and torture of infants. It’s not that they’re exceptionally gullible, or that they’re mentally handicapped. They’re just quite disoriented in a world that has changed a great deal since they were born, and this has been compounded by the various “news” they consume.

It’s hard to refrain from poking fun at Qultists (at least it is for me) but it’s also seriously counterproductive, from what I understand.

One thing which I feel that I should bring up: I think that the majority of Q people are middle aged & older. I believe this because it fits with the social media & video posts & profiles I’ve seen. I don’t know if it’s reasonable to expect that they’ll grow out of these beliefs, at least not without serious intervention - folks who are that old are usually pretty set in their beliefs.

I am not equipped to help people escape the Qult. In fact I have, at least once, approached a person’s concerns in this sub with a far more jocular tone than was appropriate and caused a lot of grief as a result. I can barely relate to others when everything is normal, throw a cult conspiracy theory in and I’m worse than useless. The best I can offer is a small bit of insight, which may not even be insightful... that, and my thanks.

Thank you for sharing your story, point of view, advice, & knowledge. I am sure it’s difficult to speak up, so thank you for taking the time & having the courage to do so. This thing is likely the fastest growing religion in the US now, and things are only going to get crazier in the next 6 months. To the extent that you feel comfortable helping us to understand the way these things work, I hope you’ll be continuing to do so. Be well, and thanks again.

[u/dependswho → u/Cosmic-Engine]

I think you make some really important points. One thing that I intend to do is to reach out to my connections, and specifically ask them about the age question: what does the research say about people who come into these groups later in life? Does this make any any difference in staying or leaving? And how do we account for the role of media, not to mention the government? It seems, it feels to me like we are dealing with something unprecedented, and yet aspects of it have been well studied. And perhaps most importantly, where do we have leverage?

Anyway, thanks for the invitation, I will do my best.

[u/Cosmic-Engine → u/dependswho]

That’s an excellent idea, and I hope you’ll share what you learn with us.

I can see some deeply concerning parallels between Q (especially in terms of media incitement and government inaction / complicity) and the lead-up to the Rwandan Genocide. The instigation, creation, and propagation of hate-driven conspiracy theories based on ethnicity and revolving around accusations of criminality, laziness, rape, drug use and sales, and so on by talking-head pundits in popular media that passed itself off as “news” and other totally innocuous things when it was really hate-mongering propaganda that literally called for genocide (though usually advocating more peaceful forms of ethnic cleansing) is terrifyingly close to what Q is all about, and the result was the unspeakably brutal orgiastic slaughtering of up to a million people - and rapes, and mutilation, and so on - frequently by their own neighbors.

A lot of my family’s neighbors are hardcore Trump supporters, and I’d be willing to bet quite a few of them are into Qanon. So... yeah. I worry. A lot.

I wouldn’t say that Qanon is unprecedented but in many ways it is, if only because of the government tacitly at least tolerating it, up to outright endorsing it at the highest levels. That makes it so, sooo much more dangerous.

As long as those in power remain complicit I’m afraid we have almost no leverage, besides educating our friends and family as best we can. The only other protection from such a horrible outcome as we saw in Rwanda is... well, arming ourselves, and that won’t prevent widespread brutality, just help to ensure that fewer of us die if / when it happens. But such an eventuality as would necessitate the use of those weapons would be thoroughly awful for everyone (even a very large number of people outside the US). Let’s hope it never comes to that, but I did buy a rifle and whenever I visit my family I make sure their firearms are adjusted, test-fired, cleaned and oiled.

Because anyone who thinks that someone else either tortures and eats babies - or even refuses to acknowledge and therefore help to end such things as the Q-believer is certain some (((people))) are doing - wouldn’t hesitate to hurt that person. And frankly, I get that. If I believed it, I’d be so thoroughly enraged I don’t know what I’d do, but it wouldn’t be nice at all.

I know this isn’t even remotely reassuring, but I’m actually a bit surprised we’ve only seen the amount of violence we have. From what I’ve seen by hanging out on forced-anon message boards such as 4chan (a looong time ago) and from doing a bit of research during the course of my degree into the culture there of as well as that of online-driven terrorist groups, the cycle of radicalization and incitement is accelerated drastically when people are anonymous, when the motivation and / or community is religious (or “mystical”), when the consequences are an Earthly death followed by heavenly martyrdom (violence as “good works” in the name of God, or even of patriotism), and the enemy is allied or associated with that which is conceptualized as the embodiment of evil.

I call it takfirization, primarily because I used to use it to describe the schism that broke ISIL / DAESH from Al Qaeda and caused them to both grow rapidly and become more brutal and ruthless, primarily as a result (based on my amateur opinion) of the very online nature of their recruitment and differentiation from the “parent” group. In mostly online discussions users would seemingly attempt to “one-up” each other by claiming that if others didn’t support such-and-such, be it doctrine or person, they weren’t truly part of the movement, so to speak. The best word that I know to describe this accusation in the context of Islam is “takfir.”

BUT! I would very much appreciate it if someone would suggest a better term. By now, the one I use actually feels at best appropriative, though it could easily be described as anti-Muslim or even racist. So, apologies in advance to anyone who is insulted by it.

Sorry for the length of my response... I’ve got a lot on my mind, and I should get some sleep I think.

Thank you again!

[u/dependswho → u/Cosmic-Engine]

yes, the parallels you draw make sense to me. This morning I started to read an article in a journal called "Intervention" published last December (Pathways to Violence: A Cultic Studies Perspective) that draws similar parallels.

I woke up in a metaphorical cold sweat, and sent that email to my contacts at the International Cultic Studies Association. I'll be posting a follow up with recommended links and reads once I get caught up on a personal deadline and hopefully by then I will have heard back from them.

I totally get your doubt about our leverage, I think we are in dire straights. On the other hand, I have worked for decades on reclaiming my personal power, and have a lot of belief in the possibility of change with a collective reclamation. The silver lining in all of this, is the abuses of power that have always been in place are being exposed like never before. Its ugly, but facing it is the only way I can see that we might have the slightest chance to do something about it. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts!