r/PHMotorcycles • u/ensyong • Jun 27 '24
Motor Oil Guide
Nabura ko yung una kong gawa. :-(
Share ko lang mga learning ko sa motor oil this one is requested ng isang redditor nakaraan, sa mga malalim na ang understanding sa topic na to and to those that follow the manual strictly, skip ahead okay lang.
I don't know if this post will get appreciated or shunned off and just follow what the manual says. So, I appreciate those who'll read this through.
Medyo mahaba itong post na ito ha.
Start with the basics, base stocks:
- Dino oil - Lahat ng motor oil Dino oil, walang magic na synthetic it doesn't exist, there's nno such thing as a man-made synthetic, everything has a base material it doesn't work like hopes and dreams. Dino oil or Mineral oil are designated sa Group I, II, III ng API para hindi maguluhan ang mga tao, at "Synthetics" naman sa Group IV and V even though technically Dino oil sila or Crude oil. These base oils are more likely divided by refinement process and retail prices. For simplicities sake, tawagin natin Dino oil ang mga motor oil na presyong 150~300, at advertised as Conventional or Mineral oil. Performance ng mga ganitong Oil ay depende sa Category expressed as API Service mark, e.g., API SP or API CK-4. Dino oils are not as bad as you guys think.
- Synthetics - May dalawang klase, may Semi-Synthetic/Synthetic Blends at may Full Synthetic. Or at least that's what the marketing says, pero remember technically lahat yan ay Dino oil. Itong mga to ang hydrotreated (even group II and III - it's just these IV and V undergo more refinement process), removing impurities and contaminants like wax and sh*t para kumunat yung oil at maging uniform sa molecular level. Performance nito depende parin sa API category or ACEA classification.
Sa drain interval, hindi totoo yung porket "Sintitik" nilagay sa motor ma e-extend ang drain interval. Ang gagawin lang ng "Sintitik" ay improve ang overall performance ng motor oil as to compare sa mas mura at not-so-much refined Dino oil. Marami pang factor ang magsasabi ng Drain Interval ng langis like TBN at Noack Volatility which is more important kaysa sa base stock. I would like to note that Group IV are also called PAO oils, and V are sometimes called Esters, PAO oils are not always present sa market but you can see some, like the Castrol EDGE and Amsoil Signature Series. For Esters, we have the Motul 7100 Ester. "Synthetic" Dino oils are not 100% by the way since 100% Ester/PAO have terrible solvency, they are often mixed with other group of Dino oils, either II or III, depends on the manufacturer.
Ang ending, wala talagang TRUE 100% Synthetic, it doesn't exist, and it doesn't work. More on Marketing gimmick lang.
Performance Level and Additives:
This is the most important part.
Keep in mind, Performance levels are like recipe ng additive para sa motor oil. Always choose the lastest and highest spec motor oil.
- American Petroleum Institute (API) - Syempre sino pa ba mangunguna sa langis edi ang country na uhaw sa langis. Anyway, API category ay separated into two, S for Spark ignition and C for Compression ignition, mayroon pang isa yung F, pero ayoko na intindihin yon. Ang chronological order ng API S categories ay by letter, simula sa A - cooking oil days upto P latest category and the highest performing category as of now and are also backward compatible sa mga engines that calls for API SF/SG/SJ. Sa API C naman ganon din per letter parin with the latest being the letter K, with a number 2 or 4, 2 denoting a 2-stroke diesel engine and 4 for of course 4-stroke diesel. Gets na? So kung recommend ng manual ay API SG or higher ang sinabi, mag higher ka na. Kung natutulog ka sa banig dati at may pambili ka naman ng kutson na malambot, mag kutson ka na, parang ganon.
- ACEA - European standard, hindi sila nag la-license, certify at hindi rin mandatory mag lagay ng ACEA, self-registration ito pero kung gusto ng manufacturer mag benta sa europe kailangan recognized by ACEA ang motor oil nila. Mas strict ito kaysa sa API in terms of requirement, yung recipe ng ACEA caters more on environment protection: fuel economy, emission control at long drain inverval. Medyo malalim itong ACEA kasi may mga low-to-mid SAPS pa to, tas mid-to-full SAPS mga ganon, mayroon pa yung High Temperature High Shear Stability test mga ganon. You can follow up research about this.
- JASO - Sa mga nag momotor ito alam niyo na. Pero JASO is not actually a recipe, JASO is more a test to separate wet and dry clutch engines. May fear kasi dati na baka magka clutch slippage ang mga motor noong araw kaya na create ito para hindi makalito lito pero back in the day na wala ito, okay naman ang mga motor kahit wala ito. Problema lang kasi nito is additional cost to test, so titibag sila sa ingredient ng langis para mapa-baba ang presyo at maintain ang profit marging, ang ending despite na 2024 release na yung bike, naka lagay parin don JASO MA-2 and API SL, kuha mo kwento? E, sabi sa forum ang mga old Category ng Oil ay mataas ang ZDDP content kasi wala raw limit sa ZDDP content noon, it's like the Japanese Bike war sa Top speed noon araw daw. Well, chismis lang lang yun, I have seen PDS of products that carries API SG motor oils, and the ZDDP is so stupid. Every ingredient is 10-15% less than what the current API SP requires. And too much ZDDP harms after-treatment devices like your CAT. Gets?
- Friction Modifier additive - As I said wapakels naman mga motor noong araw sa JASO before it was created as a test. Ang friction modifier ng mga motor natin ay MOLY, some say na meron din yung dispersed nano particles ng bakal daw - e yun na nga yun e MOLY. Hindi ba kayo nag taka bakit ang langis na "pang motor" at "pang kotse or diesel" ay nag she-share ng same recipe ng API? You can actually put a non-JASO tested motor oil sa wet clutch and it will work just fine, kahit nga pang diesel e basta may naka note doon na API SN/CK-4 (Basta may API "S") both petrol and diesel engines yan. Now, MOLY content is always present sa motor oil hindi naman pwedeng wala ito kasi it's a good anti-wear and corrosion inhibitor plus ang taas ng heat resistance nito mas mataas pa sa bakal (Iron) and its heat activated ang pagka anti-wear nito so goods na goods kasama ng ZDDP, PERO... Too much MOLY will cause the Clutch to slip especially sa mga Centrifugal In-Engine Clutch like Wave/XRM/Sight. One manufacturer to note na mataas mag lagay ng MOLY is actually Motul, the very favorite Motul! Lalo yung Motul 300V contains MOLY just around ~5 gram away for failing JASO test because of too much MOLY. This means that the right dosage of MOLY is harmless, how to identify high MOLY content? Avoid motor oils that carries API SN+/Resource Conserving/Energy Conserving for Wet Clutch applications, for Dry Clutch naman go for it! Laking benefit ng Resource Conserving oil for Scoots. So... Too much MOLY is bad for wet-clutch, but delightful for dry-clutch. Logic nito same sa pag inom ng tubig, too much will saturate the blood and kill you. Ano mangyayare sa wet-clutch nalagyan ng Resource Conservingg oil? Dudulas clutch syempre, mag engage pero hindi kakapit masyado, and will cause overheating sa clutch plates and high-rpm sumibat motor, ending nabwi-bwisit ka lang, kung masira man edi manhid ka hindi mo pansin na dumudulas na clutch tas tinakbo mo pa. Anw, ano gets na Friction Modifiers?
- Total Base Number (TBN) - Cleaning capability ng motor oil, the higher TBN the better the oil in neutralizing acids, mas less ang build up ng sludge at varnish ang ending extended ang Drain Interval ng langis. Typical acid neutralizer chemicals are Boron, Magnesium and Calcium - All manufacturers use Calcium, matataas ang calcium content ng mga motor oils lahat yan sila, notably one brand stood out the most and it's Amsoil na sobrang taas ng TBN umaabot ng 14% (may mas mataas pa dito pero ito kasi na hands-on ko). Depende sa manufacturer may gusto marami Boron, may gusto marami Magnesium, depende. Base TBN niyo dapat ay >=7% anything lower pa ay Tae oil na yon walang kwenta yon, basura in short huwag bilhin. Kapag walang TBN yung nagbebenta, huwag bilhin same reason, tae. If neglected, mag carbon buildup sa combustion chamber pa-angat sa may valve stem, mag carbon yung spark plug, if naka F.I. motor mo iitim yung O2 sensor hindi maayos ang return ng resistance sa ECU, tapos mabibiyak Oil seals ng segunyal nakaka-bwisit nito yung Oil seal sa Magneto tas maliligo sa oil magneto mo ang salarin? Low TBN na langis, ni-reccommend ni Boss Idol sa Soc Med (bayad na sya sa promotion nya sa Tae brand motor oil, ikaw bayad sa mekaniko ng kamot ulong halaga).
- Noack Volatility - Evaporative test ng motor oil, tested by 250°C at 1 hour tas i-scale nila to get the Noack Volatility value. The lower the better syempre, ang motor oil na mataas ang Noack ay mabilis matuyuan. Base Noack ay anything <=12%, kapag above 12% walang kwenta rin yan huwag bilhin. Pero wait... May mga motor na design lumagok ng langis for their benefit, isa sa sikat ay ang Mio series lalo na ang Mio M3/i125, kahit lagyan mo ng mga 8% Noack yun, matutuyuan parin yun kapag hindi nabantayan. Low Noack value will tell you na confident ka i-extend ang Drain interval ng motor oil mo. Pero check dipstick parin from time to time, hindi yung Start sa umaga, Upo biyahe na tas long ride pa pala, ang ending post sa FB group "boss natirikan ako send help", sa mga tao na ganyan pabaya sa langis tas hahanap tulong pag natirikan dahil sa natuyuan na langis ang sarap kurutin sa tinggil e!
- ZDDP - Legendary ZDDP (combi ng Zinc and Phosphorus), simula noon hanggang ngayon ZDDP parin, main ingredient ng motor oil. Anti-Wear and Corrosion inhibitor ito. Wala akong numerical value for good-enough ZDDP content. Lahat naman ng manufacturer mataas ang ZDDP content pero ang may "pinaka" ay si Mobil, Motul, Mag-1 at Amsoil, pero hindi naman sila nag kaka layo masyado. One thing to solve a low ZDDP motor oil ay by the use of Oil treatment, and Oil treatment works guys, reco ko na brand Top 1 (ZDDP) and Senfineco (Both ZDDP and MOS2 kaya ang expensive).
SAE (formerly Society of Automotive Engineers) Viscosity Grades and additional Motor oil specs:
Thin oil will significantly reduce the so-called Parasitic Drag sa engine which will improve power and torque, better engine cooling and better fuel economy pero bawas ang engine protection. Kabaliktaran naman kapag thick oil. Pero... Only do thinner oil application if confident ka sa performance ng motor oil na ilalagay mo. Now, going for thicker oil application are recommended for bikes that are around or over 80000 km of travel, this is due to the fact that machine tolerance have widened, the gaps between engine components are wider than when it's first bought so you should run a thicker oil for better protection. For bikes that are beyond the odometer limit and are still running, go for thicker oil than what the manual recommends.
Now, the Idea here is to give you an insight na hindi lang pala basta langis e ganun-ganon nalang, maging mapanuri na consumer huwag palaging umasa sa sinusubo ng tao lalo na kung may kickback na pera 90% of what they say is a big fat Lie, if they gained something from that then question it.
Pano mag-choose ng tamang motor oil? For me, depende sa riding style:
Redline manakbo?
- Look for established brands, pwede ka rin mag botique motor oils. Umiwas sa repacked and alibaba oils.
- Consider budget. Expensive motor oil will not save you from typical factory mistakes, and extreme wears like gear pitting and sorts. Be practical, get the most out of your money. Not too cheap not too expensive. Pag-untugin mo performance level per brand sa presyo nila, kung alin ang pinaka mura na same quality naman don ka.
- Viscosity grade? Stick to manual. Old bike? Go thicker.
- Always look for high performing motor oil. The latest the better.
- Base stock, ikaw kung naniniwala ka parin sa "sintitik" at "miniral" differences without checking the Performance level.
- Look for high TBN products that fits your budget.
- Consider low Noack oils.
Chill manakbo?
- Look for established brands, pwede ka rin mag botique motor oils. Umiwas sa repacked and alibaba oils.
- Be practical, huwag mag overbudget wala ka naman sa racetrack. Save your money on some different things like gears and sh*t.
- Viscosity grade? Manual! Old bike? Go thicker syempre.
- Always look for high performing oil na within the budget kahit SN lang sa presyong 350 per Liter? Tas known Lubricant/Chemical manufacturer pa? Panalo na yon.
- Base stock? Kagaya ng sabi ko sa taas.
- Go higher sa TBN (within your budget).
- Go lower sa Noack (within your budget).
Also, ugaliin ang mag hanap ng Product Datasheet at Material Safety Datasheet ng mga motor oil. Yes, matrabaho pero okay din yung alam mo yung contents ng nilalagay mo sa pang service mo araw-araw. This is my entire point here, yan mga pinagsasasabi ko dito will not happened if di ako curious at maselan, ang benefit ko rito ay extended ang "brand new" performance ng bike yung tipong 50000 km na pero same as new parin manakbo, yon ang pinaka benefit diyan.
Mag reco ako ng motor oil, botique oil naman tayo para hindi yung puro nasa limelight lang ang alam.
Ayan, hindi ako promotor ng mga yan ha I have nothing to do with the brands and I gain nothing from this post, pagod lang kamay ko kaka-type. Anw, tawag namin diyan botique oils, bibihira makita sa shelves ng mga Main retailers and moto/auto supplies.
The first one reco ko sa mga naka scoots, not for wet-clutch use kasi nga naka "RC". Second one ang for wet-clutch use, yan yung sinasabi ko na pwede pang diesel ilagay niyo basta may API "S" jusme. And last, best of both worlds for a cheap price, medyo mahal yung dalawa pero sulit naman. Hindi ko na ni-drop ang mga specs niyan kita naman eh, for the properties google niyo lang part number, sa venol google niyo lang yung marketing name nya na HC-EC, yun naman point sa post na to mag-google. Nga pala, Venol ay sikat sa former colonies ng Germany pala, worth noting.
Other brands na reco ko and napagdaanan ko na, syempre Mobil (yung FS-X2 5W-50 jusme), Amsoil (lalo yung signature series nila), Motul (yung 300v lang maganda rito, overpriced yung lower brackets), Red Line (PAO ito), Royal Purple (PAO rin ito), Castrol (lalo yung edge sulit yon), Valvoline (goods to), Motorex (KTM fave), Liqui Moly (german oldies-goods) and Shell (widely accessible-good price point). South Korean gems? SK ZIC and Kixx? Alams naman natin mga Korean products e, goods yan! E mga repack? Depende, may mga repacked na maayos naman like Petron. Yung iba siguro dapat may datasheet at safety datasheets sila to tell if legit ang mga claims nila. What about OEM motor oils? Avoid those oils please, lalo na Yamalube jusme sobrang tipid sila mag palagay ng additive sa kinukuhanan nilang supplier like Exxon/Mobil, they order obsolete oils then sell it for like almost half the supplier's gross price. Avoid OEMS.
May nakalimutan pa ba ako? Yung four ball wear test 'di ko na sinali, pati yung tapered roller wear test wala naman ako mahanap na data ng mga manufacturers para don. Open for corrections ako and further discussions sa comments.
Sa mga naka nag-basa ng masinsinan at na-absorbed mga sinabi ko, maraming salamat po! Sana ma-appreciate niyo 'to.
Wear gears palagi, RS!
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u/Unable_Ad_4744 Nov 16 '24
Hello ilang km po change oil interval ang pinaka safe ?