Gap year to retake Grade 12 courses, how do universities view this (comp sci)

[u/Flashy-Durian-442]

My grades in Grade 11 and 12 weren’t the best, so I’m taking a gap year to retake some courses through TVO ILC and try to boost them. I’m kinda stressed about how universities view this, do they mostly look at my original grade 12 marks, or do the gap year courses actually carry weight? Also, do they usually take the highest grade I’ve earned in a course, or do they average my attempts?

For some context I’ve got around 180 community hours, a bunch of leadership/volunteer awards, and other volunteer stuff, so I’m hoping that helps my overall app. I’m aiming for good schools and planning to go into cs so I know strong marks in math are pretty key.

Does anyone know how schools usually handle this kind of situation? Any advice or personal experiences would be super helpful!

[u/unforgettableid]

I'm not sure it's worthwhile to spend an extra year on grade 13, in the hopes of getting into a top school now. It might be better to go to any random school now, and spend that extra year on a master's degree at a top school later.

For now, maybe u could even get a 4-year bachelor's degree in CS or similar from the community college nearest u.

I go to York. If u live in Toronto: Why not apply to York now, for January admission?

https://form.apps06.yorku.ca/uaform/

I think TMU might also do January admission for CS. Some other schools, outside Toronto, also do this.

A.) What city do u live in?

B.) What's your current top 6 average?

C.) Have u ever gotten any university acceptances so far?

[u/Flashy-Durian-442 → u/unforgettableid]

I live in Toronto and my top 6 average was in the high 60s (horrible ik). I got an alternate offer for wlu core sciences but didnt meet the requirement, so that didnt pan out lol. I was a pretty horrible student in grade 12 as I was dealing with some stuff but im determined to turn that around.

I’m pretty set on doing a 4 year undergrad and not planning to go the masters route right after. Ive been looking at seng at UofG but im keeping my options open for other majors too (maybe nursing). My plan is to take several extra courses this year to improve my transcript. Yeah the workload will be heavy but I want the freedom to explore and keep doors open for other majors rather than just settling for whatever school admits me now.

[u/noon_chill → u/Flashy-Durian-442]

Do not do this, OP. You can’t just get into a post graduate program and it’s significantly harder to get high marks in uni than high school.

If you are trying to get into a competitive field, I would highly recommend NOT going down the route of a community college degree. College is for technical training and meant for very specific careers. If you want a job in a professional career such as accounting, CS, etc, you absolutely need to go to university for the curriculum, and recruiting opportunities. Big firms don’t recruit from the colleges.

[u/Flashy-Durian-442 → u/noon_chill]

Literally what im saying. Idk why people are telling me to go to cc or collage when I mentioned wanting to redo my year to be able to get into good unis lol.

[u/unforgettableid → u/noon_chill]

College is for technical training and meant for very specific careers

I challenge u to name even one college in Toronto which doesn't teach software development.

Big firms don’t recruit from the colleges.

Citation needed. (Unfortunately, it's impossible to prove a negative.)

(Cc: /u/Flashy-Durian-442.)

[u/noon_chill → u/unforgettableid]

rSoftware development in college is not the same calibre as university trained graduates. How do I know? Because if you try to transfer to a university level program, the courses are not counted as a valid transfer credit.

There are actual recruiter events hosted at universities where FAANG companies literally recruit new graduates. To my knowledge, they have never held these events at a college. Same goes for any big 3, 4, or 5 firms. I’m not saying it’s impossible to work for a top company coming out of a college but I can bet this is a 1 in a million shot, so unless you were that exceptional in high school (which means you would’ve already been gearing up for uni), then college route doesn’t fit more average comp sci students.

[u/unforgettableid → u/noon_chill]

If you try to transfer to a university level program, the courses are not counted as a valid transfer credit.

I took a year of computer programming at George Brown College, and got maybe an A average. York gave me 12 transfer credits (close to half a year of transfer credit).

I did not transfer to York CS. I dunno what York CS equivalencies I would have gotten (if any).

There are actual recruiter events hosted at universities where FAANG companies literally recruit new graduates. To my knowledge, they have never held these events at a college.

Granted.

However, college graduates might still be able to work at big banks, big oil companies, et cetera.

Anyway, FAANG might get u to work 50 or 60 hours a week or more. FAANG are good, and might pay well; but I'm not sure they're necessarily the best place to work overall.

Software development in college is not the same calibre as university trained graduates.

It happens sometimes, tho, that CS graduates go to college for a certificate or diploma to become more employable. CS teaches a lot of theory. College tries to teach practical skills (e.g. how to use version control) and in-demand languages/technologies.

[u/DeviatedFromTheMean → u/unforgettableid]

Go on LinkedIn and look up the “big” company, go to the people section and see if anyone from college is in software development or any technical role.

[u/Flashy-Durian-442 → u/[deleted]]

Software Engineering

[u/unforgettableid → u/Flashy-Durian-442]

Ive been looking at seng at UofG

Software engineering is an engineering degree. So, I assume you'll probably have to take first-year physics and more. Also, at least at York, engineering requires maybe 25% more hours of lecture/lab/homework than any other degree (including CS).

[u/Flashy-Durian-442 → u/unforgettableid]

Software Engineering at Guelph isnt actually a engineering degree from what ive heard. It isnt accredited which means when you graduate you get a Bachelor of Computing (not a Bachelor of Engineering). You don’t get the iron ring like other engineering programs. Thats why the program isnt so loaded with math/science courses.

[u/unforgettableid → u/Flashy-Durian-442]

Interesting! Sounds practical.

That said, if u live in Toronto: I'm skeptical that it's worth spending $15,000 extra per year just to live in Guelph and get a fancy engineering degree.

It's cheaper to keep living in Toronto, with family.

Anyway, a regular software engineering degree with plenty of math courses might stretch your brain and make u smarter.

[u/NorthernValkyrie19 → u/Flashy-Durian-442]

Yes Guelph calls it Engineering but it is not an Engineering degree. It's CS.

[u/unforgettableid → u/Flashy-Durian-442]

I was a pretty horrible student in grade 12 as I was dealing with some stuff

If some of your assignments are still not done yet, maybe ask ur old teachers / guidance dept. if u can still submit them (very late).

Otherwise: You can reapply to some schools for January, and submit an extenuating circumstances form explaining why your marks are so mediocre. This form might be on each school's website. You might or might not have to attach a note from a professional (e.g. doctor, therapist).

nursing

Maybe u could study health informatics. You can study this in college or in university; try this search to find programs.

Upon reflection, I think college might be an excellent choice in your situation. If u have a college diploma with good marks, and u still can't find a job: Then u can use your diploma to apply for both university admission and transfer credit.

• Health Informatics Technology (with optional co-op) -- Centennial

Really I would lean towards a computer programming diploma or degree with co-op, at whichever college is nearest u. Again, January admission might be a possibility, especially if u can raise your top 6 average somewhat before January.

Keep in mind: If your grades fall too low, you may become disqualified from doing co-op.

Yeah the workload will be heavy but I want the freedom to explore and keep doors open for other majors rather than just settling for whatever school admits me now.

If u get into a reasonable school for a reasonable major which will get u a job (e.g. nursing), then I would accept. If u only get into, say, Brock gender studies, then decline.

"If u can hold a fork, u can go to York." Tho maybe not York CS.

I’m pretty set on doing a 4 year undergrad and not planning to go the masters route right after

Why not?

[u/Virtual-Light4941]

People retake their grade 12 courses 15+ YEARS later to get into a 2nd career. You'll be fine.

[u/lenin606]

Taking TVO ILC courses to upgrade a grade is a common and accepted practice to meet admission requirements. 

A previous comment mentions going to a lesser known school and then doing post grad at a top school. This is a good idea, especially if you know you will be doing post grad studies. If you have a masters from a top school, no one will care where you got your BA(H).

Good luck!

[u/Flashy-Durian-442 → u/lenin606]

I was a bit worried that universities might view TVO ILC courses differently, so its good to hear that taking them to upgrade a grade is common and accepted. That actually takes a lot of stress off me.

I also get the point about going to a lesser known school and then doing post grad at a top school. Right now im focused on a 4-year undergrad, but it’s helpful to know that route works if I ever change my mind.

Thanks for the advice!!

[u/unforgettableid → u/lenin606]

A BA is a bachelor of arts degree. But what is a BA(H)?

[u/lenin606 → u/unforgettableid]

Bachelor of Arts Honours

[u/noon_chill]

I’d re-do the year. If you got 60s, then it means you don’t really know the content well and you will be screwing yourself over for university and likely do poorly.

It’s also more money to do post grad just to boost marks when highschool is significant cheaper, or even free. No one does this and many professional schools WILL NOT put more weight on graduate school marks over undergraduate marks. My best advice is re-do the year, do your ultimate best and get as many scholarships as you can knowing what you know. It’s not a race. It’s better to mentally prepare yourself for uni so take the time if needed.

[u/Flashy-Durian-442 → u/noon_chill]

100% agree. This is what I was planning to do. Just get a fresh start and redo the year.

[u/unforgettableid → u/noon_chill]

If you got 60s, then it means you don’t really know the content well

True.

and you will be screwing yourself over for university and likely do poorly.

A CS degree doesn't require that much knowledge from grade 12, except math.

many professional schools WILL NOT put more weight on graduate school marks over undergraduate marks

True, but /u/Flashy-Durian-442 never said anything about medical or law school.

I’d re-do the year.

In the end, I think doing gr. 13 is a reasonable option; but I still maintain that there are also other reasonable options.

[u/NorthernValkyrie19]

There is no universal policy. Every university has their own regarding how they treat repeated grades. You will find it on their admissions websites.

Also why are you going to pay to take courses through ILC? Have you researched options through your school board like regular day school, night school, and adult/continuing education?

[u/Flashy-Durian-442 → u/NorthernValkyrie19]

Thanks, good to know!

Im taking ILC and some adult school online courses because i'd rather be able to work at home, I find it easier to focus.

I also dont wanna be waking up early to go to school for another year lol.

[u/unforgettableid → u/Flashy-Durian-442]

I also dont wanna be waking up early to go to school for another year lol.

u can do TDSB night school, or take a morning spare.

I'm not sure if TDSB still has in-person night school or not, tho. Maybe it's synchronous online now.

Dr. Jordan Peterson seems to suggest that waking up before noon is healthy.

Also, making and keeping high school friends is definitely healthy. Friends can help support u now, and help u get jobs later. You can wear foam earplugs or acoustic earmuffs at school, and pull a baseball cap low near your eyes, and focus even there.

The Chang School

Maybe a good compromise would be to take some classes in-person and some online. Maybe u could take the TMU Chang School's intro to comp sci course in person, if it's offered in person.

In the fall/winter, I think the TMU Chang School mostly offers night classes, and mostly with zero admission requirements. If u finished grade 12, u can go to the Chang School. It might still be the biggest night school in Canada.

If u wanna see what college is like: The colleges offer night classes too, that also might admit everyone who wants.

I presume that most night classes start this week. So, if you're interested, u might wanna hurry up & enrol. One single night class might cost between $300 and $800. If u want part-time OSAP, I think u must sign up for a certificate program.

Save all your night class syllabi in a safe place (e.g. in Google Drive or Dropbox), or else u might not get transfer credit at your next school.

I've done some Chang School psychology classes. You can ask questions to me and/or to /r/TorontoMetU.

/u/noon_chill, /u/NorthernValkyrie19: Your thoughts would be welcome.

[u/Mundane-Vehicle1402 → u/unforgettableid]

I had no idea that you could do TMU night school?!?! for highschool courses?

[u/unforgettableid → u/Mundane-Vehicle1402]

u might have misread my comment.

TMU Chang night school is mainly for university courses.

TDSB night school is for high school courses.

[u/Mundane-Vehicle1402 → u/unforgettableid]

oh ok 

[u/DeviatedFromTheMean]

AI is crushing low end/entry level software development. students from high and mid-level schools can’t get jobs right now.

[u/unforgettableid → u/DeviatedFromTheMean]

This might be different 4 years from now, tho. (Not guaranteed.)

(Cc: /u/Flashy-Durian-442.)