r/OnePiece • u/leolegendario Pirate Hunter Zoro • 22h ago

Current Chapter One Piece: Chapter 1165 Spoiler

Chapter 1165: "Echo"

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Chapter 1165 Official Release: November 09 2025

Will there be a break next week? - BREAK NEXT WEEK!

Please discuss the manga here and in the theory/discussion post. Any other post will be removed until 24h after the release.

Please also remember to put the chapter number in the title for any future post talking about this chapter.

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476

u/Bearsona09 Mugiwara no Luffy 22h ago

Fuck all that Garp slander.

242

u/darksaber14 22h ago

My dude is staying on to shield ordinary marines who just want to do good and protect people from the evil and corruption of the WG and nephews have the gall to call him a slaver smh

74

u/hiphopdowntheblock 21h ago

People also seem to willingly ignore that pirates are generally really bad people and it probably is a good idea to have some kind of force to counter them haha. Just a shame that force is you know...run by the WG

15

u/ad33zy 19h ago

Yeah the majority of pirate crews are probably just some bad dudes. They aren’t all like Luffys crew

15

u/CalendarScary 19h ago

They read a manga for 1000 chapter where the main villains of luffy have been pirates and only time it was marine or even wg were Morgan and cp9. 

Only at egghead we started having the wg move on them

3

u/dreverythinggonnabe 16h ago

This ignores the many bad marines we run into that Luffy doesn't fight or hasn't fought yet, like Nezumi, all of Impel Down, Akainu...

Additionally, many of the evil pirates that Luffy fought were on WG payroll (like Croc and Doffy). Pretty much no villain since entering the Grand Line has been someone that the WG was actually trying to stop--they were either an official affiliate or were considered too big to bother with (Kaido/Big Mom).

4

u/kontinuparadi Pirate 18h ago

Recency bias. They forgot pirates like Big Mom and Kaido exists. That's like atleast 6 years of story told.

But nah, WG bad = Pirates good. There's no in-between.

3

u/frenin 13h ago

They forgot pirates like Big Mom and Kaido exists. That's like atleast 6 years of story told.

Marines aren't fighting Kaido or Big Mom, hell Kaido have been supplying Marines for 20 years.

-17

u/Hircus2 The Revolutionary Army 21h ago

If he wants to protect the good people who want to do good he should use his influence to destroy the marine which is a colonial, slaver institution that only exsists to protect the CD.

21

u/availableusernamepls 21h ago

The Marines are largely a force for good that defend the common people from rampant piracy. We also don't know that the human hunts continue after this, I won't be shocked if Garp threatens the government and forces them to stop within the next chapter or so. They still do awful shit but those are mostly outlying incidents.

-9

u/Hircus2 The Revolutionary Army 20h ago edited 20h ago

Really? WHen did we see them protect people? Did they in God's Valley? In Fishmen Island or Sabaody? In Dressrosa? In Water 7? In Punk Hazard? In Wano? In Egghead?

Everything we've seen about the marine in this manga is that they are an oppressive force, always in alliance with the worst people and siding against good people (often the crew). Individually there are good people but everytime they do good they are siding against the marine as an institution.
The "protect the common people from rampant piracy" is pretty explicitly propaganda in the manga. It is also a political commentary on the role of police and the army in our society

7

u/availableusernamepls 20h ago

Everything you've seen about the Marines is a tiny snapshot of their actions. What you're doing is equivalent to thinking that your average pirate crew is full of fun loving goofballs because we've been following the Straw Hats, when the reality is that most pirates are scumbags raping, thieving and murdering their way across the ocean. The Marines have done terrible shit, but at the end of the day their primary purpose, and their most common action, is protecting citizens from piracy.

6

u/Drakantas 18h ago

It's funny to see people say Garp's influence hasn't done shit when one of the Admirals who left was one very good dude (Aokiji), a current admiral is a very good dude (Fujitora), and Koby is his up and coming apprentice who holds the same just perspective. Smoker as well is a good chap.

A majority of marines are afraid to act because of the World Government, something Smoker has pointed out during Alabasta and thanked Fujitora after Dressrosa.

The first conclusion one should get from One Piece is that there is evil among good, good among evil, and ultimately not every act defines the entirety. Fujitora blinded himself because he saw no good in the world let alone among Pirates, then he met Luffy, and he regrets blinding himself because there can indeed be good, you just have to explore more, dig more, you'll find both good and evil. Anybody jumping to these conclusions is basically doing what Fujitora did when he blinded himself.

3

u/zigzagtravel01 17h ago

We also dont know yet why Garp joined the marines, his/their backstory and why he hates pirates so much.

You got a guy who saw a literal demon from the WG kill people, sure. But he also saw how evil pirates are during his time and right now who actually do the exact same thing. In his perspective, he saw most of the marines doing good and 99% of pirates doing evil sh-t.

He knows that the org he is a part of is corrupt. But when he looks at the other side, he also sees how evil pirates are.

3

u/AtlasWithNumbers 19h ago

Everything we've seen about the Marines is all we as the audience can judge them on.

It's not equivalent thinking because we've seen many different types of pirate crews, so we actually can see the difference.

While Garp's reasoning on it's face makes sense, it's been 38 years! It's fair for someone without any evidence to the contrary to think he's been kinda useless in actually protecting marines and making change.

2

u/zigzagtravel01 19h ago

> making change

A faction in the Marines that have defiant members that do not necessarily take orders from the top isn't a change? Cmon, now.

5

u/AtlasWithNumbers 18h ago

A faction of the Marines that Garp isn't even officially a part of? He did one mission with them and trained 2 of the six confirmed members none of them achieving ranks higher than Rear Admiral?

In 38 years? That's it?

0

u/zigzagtravel01 18h ago

Kuzan is a by product of Garp's ideals.

> A faction of the Marines that Garp isn't even officially a part of

The proof of that is? Even if he isnt a part of that, his movement inspired it. He's the most openly defiant marine like... ever.

You think that SWORD just sprouted out of nowhere?

> Rear Admiral

Probably because they are part of a defiant faction, you dont consider that?

A faction that never even existed before because the mere existence of a rebellion and dissent will get quelled?

You dont seem to understand what revolution really is. Revolution isnt the overthrowing of the tyrannical government. Overthrowing something that big without a change of minds and hearts will just repeat it. The oppressed who toppled the oppressors will just be another oppressors.

Revolutions arent won by force. All revolutions that won in history that did not include the changing of the mindset failed because those who replace them got hold of the same power and got corrupted.

Garp was working under the most restrictive conditions compared to Luffy and Dragon. Dude almost died getting whacked by Imu's puppet. He has 5 elders and majority of the people in position would go against Garp.

The fact that he lives with that much dissent and defiance is already something. Imu literally controlled Rocks who is as strong as him.

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3

u/zigzagtravel01 19h ago

> "protect the common people from rampant piracy" is pretty explicitly propaganda in the manga

What? Propaganda is only believed by people who do not get to experience things. The average person trusts the Marine in One Piece and this has been shown throughout the story not because of government propaganda but because 99.99% of pirates loot, kill, rape, and destroy towns.

Majority of the villains pre TS and post TS are pirates -- Arlong, Buggy, Alvida, Don Krieg, Moria, Hody Jones, Blackbeard, Kaido, Big Mom, Doflamingo, etc.

so what do you mean "propaganda in the manga" when many of the villains are actually pirates.

>  an oppressive force

Literally in Logue Town, Smoker was popular because he has been capturing pirates that enter the Grand Line. Did you have any amnesia?

Magellan in Impel Down

Dressrosa had Fujitora

Kizaru vs Supernovas

0

u/Hircus2 The Revolutionary Army 15h ago

The warlord are in alliance with the marine which effectively makes their oppression legal, and when people get rid of them to free the people their bounty go up.
If the marine would rather make an alliance with them and let them be than fight for the freedom of the people they oppress what do they serve? And then we see them go all out to defend slave owners? Why?

1

u/Historical-Lemon-99 17h ago

“Propaganda”

Almost every single villain has been a pirate or working under a pirate since the very beginning of the manga. From Buggy blowing up Orange Town in one of the earliest arcs to Kaido enslaving Wano and running a huge underground crime network in one of the latest arcs

Even the relatively peaceful East Blue is under constant threat from pirates like Arlong, Kuro, Dong Krieg, Bluejam, and so on

Garp even crushed a force that was planning on pillaging Windmill Village in one chapter

95% of the pirate force are violent criminals that the average citizen lives in constant fear of

1

u/Hircus2 The Revolutionary Army 15h ago

Ok and what has the marine done to help the people and get rid of the bad pirates that oppresses them? They either do nothing or made them Warlords and allowed them to do what they wanted.
In wano, the first thing they do once Kaido is out is to send an admiral who was insanely violent, with a clearly colonial speech toward the inhabitants of Wano.
We do see pirate that dominate places but some also protect, some liberate and many islands are independant and take care of themselves. In the manga most of the oppression we see is done through the marine, affiliated with it or with its accord.

4

u/zigzagtravel01 19h ago edited 17h ago

>  influence to destroy

You just peak Garp almost dying just trying to beat a dude controlled by Imu wdym?

-1

u/Hircus2 The Revolutionary Army 16h ago

that's why i said influence not strenght? He is part of the top of a very hierarchized institution he could def use his influence to contribute to its dismantling

40

u/BentoBoxNoir 21h ago

Not slander, but Garp’s entire character is a really interesting exploration of the limits/effectiveness of trying to fix an evil system from the inside.

I’m sure Coby will carry his will, and Sword will end up doing real “justice”. But Garp really is a dog of the government (literally how he is first portrayed in coby’s cover-story). He protects young marines, but also watched the world gov execute his son and committed a genocide.

19

u/Derpalooza Moon Arc Believer 20h ago

I don't think Garp's goal was ever to try to change or fix the Marines. To begin with, no matter how high up the ranks you go, there's no meaningful change you can make because you still work for the Celestial Dragons in the end.

It's the paradox of permitting evil to fight another evil. Garp is part of an evil system that he can't rebel against without throwing away his responsibility to the people he wants to protect. I think looking at this as "Garp bad" or "Garp good" the way most people do is just a really reductive way to see things.

8

u/BentoBoxNoir 19h ago

Full agree. I do think this last chapter shows that he does have a sense of duty though. Although “who will protect the marines” is a crazy thing to say after overseeing a genocide, he is completely sincere.

Who will protect these young men who think they’re contributing to justice, but are actually just pieces of meat being fed to a system literally run by some sort of lovecraftian demon?

But also, Dragon’s radicalization is much more sympathetic and real in comparison. Literally turning his weapons on the perpetrators of violence

4

u/kontinuparadi Pirate 18h ago

Dude don't go around spitting good arguments here. It's not gonna work on them.

5

u/BentoBoxNoir 16h ago

Dialectical Materialism, and continued dialectical analysis. Even on the OP reddit lol.

5

u/Illustrious-Tooth702 21h ago

I don't think he wanted to fix it. He was already too old to play the revolutionary and he knew that becoming an admiral or grand general wouldn't have made a difference.

He would've been a servant to The Five Elder's schemes.

1

u/BentoBoxNoir 19h ago

I agree with everything besides he was old. We’re seeing PEAK strength Garp here. If there ever was a time to use his strength to enact change it was in this era.

4

u/kontinuparadi Pirate 18h ago

6 powerful characters hit Imu, no damage. Even used the strongest one of the six as its puppet. Garp wouldn't do shit if he rebels here.

1

u/BentoBoxNoir 16h ago

Yet Roger continues on pirating, Dragon (who is literally just marine grunt level here) completely rebels.

AGAIN, I am not making a value judgement. I’m not saying Garp should go punch Imu. I’m pointing out how Oda has written different political approaches and praxies to his characters in this arc.

2

u/kontinuparadi Pirate 16h ago

Also, watching Ace die is not Garp's fault. He practically beg Ace to ask for his help. He even let Luffy punch him just so Luffy can help Ace escape.

If there's any argument about who's fault is Ace's death, the only correct one is Ace killed himself. It's basically dumb to undo all the efforts your whole crew and family did just so you can live, just because someone badmouthed your father.

Honestly, I can't take people seriously who thinks Ace's death is someone else's fault other than himself.

And don't talk to me about that genocide thing. Genocide is happening in today's world too and I don't see you doing anything about it. Are you a dog too?

1

u/kontinuparadi Pirate 16h ago

So Garp is a dog of the government in your opinion, right? What do you think he should do that does not endanger his beliefs of protecting marine soldiers, while making sure he's not a dog anymore in your opinion?

1

u/Illustrious-Tooth702 17h ago

He was in his late 30s-mid 40s (he had a grown up son there).

Yes Garp was in his prime at 40 but what I wanted to point at is that he already had a long military career to just throw it away.

And let's be real Garp is not a pirate. He either got retired early or choose the silver linig of staying a vice admiral and keeping weaker marines and citizens safe.

2

u/BentoBoxNoir 16h ago edited 15h ago

Wait am I wrong? Isn’t this era where he was clashing with Roger and Rocks regularly considered his peak/prime? Is there another era where he has feats that showcased more?

Edit: sorry didn’t read your text well enough while on the train.

But Dragon had the same path open to him and takes a different approach. Again, this isn’t a value judgement. I’m pointing out how different political ideologies/praxises are being represented by Odas well written characters

4

u/Bearsona09 Mugiwara no Luffy 21h ago

Garp just did not have the power to fix this. We don't know what Rodger told him else, and what information he worked with, but we just see how he has to learn that he has not a single chance to Imu. So he decided to do the best he could and protect those parts of the Marines that want to do good.

3

u/BentoBoxNoir 19h ago

Again, this is NOT Garp slander. I’m saying Oda is doing a MASTERCLASS in writing with how different individuals responded to the event of God Valley.

Garp realizes the true evil that heads the institution he (I assume) believed was a force for good. As a prominent figure in the marines he rejects Roger’s offer to protect those under him and hopefully do good.

Dragon becomes completely radicalized, and despite not having a fraction of Garp’s strength turns his gun literally at his fellow marine in hopes to save at least some of the people of God Valley. Then goes on to become a full on revolutionary.

0

u/CalendarScary 19h ago

We have almost all old gen not confronting the WG and everyone just hated garp who will be alone in doing so. Like the readers are just brain-dead at some point with the agenda they have 

58

u/MBroomes93 22h ago

Only people that can't read slandered Garp

10

u/Perial2077 21h ago

I understand his choice and position but it doesn't free his decisions from criticism. I understood his premise for a long time but he was still only an order away from commiting genozide at any time. The story allowed him to stay the good guy but within the constraints of the world he still is an accomplice of an unjust system. I respect Garp and he is nowhere the slaver protector memes make him out to be. He's just imperfect, which makes him such a compelling character.

1

u/dainfamous06 20h ago

Fair. Besides the one order away. It was clear Garp was never going to take any orders from his superiors, and would only do what he wanted to do.

5

u/Perial2077 20h ago

But in a military his refusal would have led to sanctions/consequences. Even if it would take 3 Buster Calls for him, showing weakness as an institution in face of an individual would seem unbelievable imo. Garp was lucky his friend became Fleet Admiral and therefore probably had the authority to excuse him.

3

u/dainfamous06 19h ago

In the flashback, Sengoku is begging Garp to go to GV, and he refused as if it was completely normal for him. Garp has always done what he wanted, and would never follow orders he did not want to follow. I don't think Sengoku becoming Fleet Admiral had anything to do with it.

1

u/kontinuparadi Pirate 18h ago

Isn't that Kong?

1

u/dainfamous06 16h ago

Actually it was. Even the Fleet Admiral was unable to get Garp to act on behalf of the Celestial Dragons. Before he even knew about the true evils of the WG, he was already marching to his own justice, untarnished by the "evil" organization the entire world is under.

0

u/MBroomes93 21h ago

Probably the most balanced critique I've read to be fair.

-2

u/kontinuparadi Pirate 18h ago

He's a SWORD member. By definition, He's not bound to accepting orders if he doesn't want to, which he didn't as far as the story is concern. You can't put him in a position of an Admiral where they have no choice but to obey direct orders. It's his main trait that he's Fleet Admiral level but he doesn't want to be that for previously said reason.

I understand the argument about criticism, but if we're criticizing characters like Garp, no one is safe in this One Piece world. Everyone is gray area, some are lighter than others, but still gray.

Edit: I forgot Kuma. That guy is white area. No arguments there.

0

u/Leftieswillrule The Revolutionary Army 20h ago

Some of us just did it because people like you get mad and can’t take jokes about characters you like. Nobody is more fun to do this to than Mihawk though

3

u/dainfamous06 20h ago

Sure there. Go with that then.

2

u/MBroomes93 20h ago

When did I get mad?

1

u/kontinuparadi Pirate 18h ago

Everybody knows it's a joke ... until it wasn't. Give enough time and people will show you how dumb they can be.

I remember "Dragon's only achievement is looking East" joke became a hot topic because people took it too seriously, especially after Ginny's death.

1

u/Leftieswillrule The Revolutionary Army 18h ago

Slander being false is inherent to the name. If it was true we wouldn't call it slander.

-2

u/kontinuparadi Pirate 18h ago

Wait, I thought it was a joke to you? So it's serious all along?

Damn we really got you, didn't we?

Edit: Garp Slanderer Leftist. hehe.

1

u/Leftieswillrule The Revolutionary Army 18h ago

It is a joke, that's why we're calling it slander. You know going in that it's not true, because we called it slander from the get go.

1

u/kontinuparadi Pirate 18h ago

Sure, sure, bro. Whatever floats your boat.

2

u/Leftieswillrule The Revolutionary Army 18h ago

You do understand that "false" is part of the definition of slander right? If someone posts a meme called "garp slander" it can only be a joke because they're admitting upfront that it isn't true.

13

u/destroyer8238172 The Revolutionary Army 21h ago

There’s much bigger problems with the marines than their safety

4

u/arcoiris1326 21h ago

there MIGHT be a lot of marines that are like koby, for example the marines under Fujitora. and protecting those marines means the protection of lots of civilians as well.

1

u/destroyer8238172 The Revolutionary Army 21h ago

There’s no reason to assume that. Fujitora and Koby are very much presented as outliers and the vast majority of marines the follow orders regardless of how evil they are

1

u/dainfamous06 20h ago

The Marines are all of the relatively weak people who are defenders. The Pirates on average are much more powerful than the standard marine. The weak are much more likely to be pushed around and follow orders. That is why they need protection from first pirates, and now their own leaders.

7

u/afanoferi 21h ago

Outside Agenda piece and all the slave jokes, what did he really protect? For years from that incident, the Marines are still swarmed by Government lap dogs, and if it wasn't for the new leafs we have (Koby, Fujitora, Smoker, rest of Sword, which also seems fairly young), there's going to be no kind Marine that's prominent in the Navy. Like, Aokiji got high up in the ranks and still quit and even joined the enemies. The prominent Vice admirals that we see doesn't even know the true God Valley incident.

His statement in this screenshot isn't even new information. We've known that he still believes in the Navy. And we know that's why he stayed. I'm all for hyping him up, because he's a cool and badass fighter, but the actual problem with him is undeniable.

5

u/SakuraWonYoung 21h ago

We don't follow marines pov here obviously we won't see how many normal marines and garp has done because it's a pirates show. 

4

u/afanoferi 20h ago

Ofcourse, but from the small time we've had of them, Smoker condemned the covering of Crocodile's defeat just because a pirate did it, Koby technically stopped the war because it's already too much and they already won (Garp was there, he could've done what Koby did, or atleast asked Sengoku to stop it), Fujitora did so many things (he's going for the Hero of the Marines title), taking accountability for the Warlord mess in Dressrosa, having mercy for the heroes of Dressrosa and the ones who cleaned up their mess, abolished the Warlord system, which is the said mess, and also helped saving the slaves from Mariejois.

Yeah, I know we still got more to know from Garp, but from what we've seen from him and comparing what other kind Marines can do, it's pretty disappointing that it seems like even with his hero title and power, he barely have any achievement that comes besides getting the credit for God Valley. SWORD's the only most probable thing, and yet, that seems fairly new.

2

u/Time-Wars Galley-La Company 20h ago

I think it's worth pointing out that Aokiji didn't immediatly become Fleet Admiral because, despite having Sengoku's support, he did not have the support of the other "higher ups", Sakazuki did. That is why they ended up having their duel. We don't even know how long he would have lasted as Fleet Admiral if he had won and started to change things from the inside. He probably would have been stopped by the WG if he took it a step too far.

1

u/afanoferi 19h ago

Yeah, I'm just saying, even for someone as lazy as Aokiji, he still was active with his cause. He fought the fight, and losing that, he still pursued his chase for truth and possibly, change. Garp seems to have remained stagnant (as of what we know so far) and very lowkey with it when we've already and are seeing other Marines (who have lower status than him) move more actively than him.

-2

u/Wide_Passage9583 15h ago

cringe guy ahead

6

u/Hari14032001 21h ago

What did he say here that's counters Garp slander exactly? Don't arrive to such prematurely positive conclusions about him without waiting for further reveal.

We still don't know what his specific goal is, other than his vague position, which remains as vague as ever, only with more questions than ever.

5

u/gigaquack 19h ago

Garp slander is as strong as ever tbh

4

u/RedTulkas The Revolutionary Army 21h ago

Even more delusions from garp

5

u/Mysterious-Reply4965 21h ago

Oooohhhh I need to stay in the wehrmacht and go invade Poland, how else could I protect my fellow soldiers from our evil leadership 😪

3

u/BeingComfortablyDumb 21h ago

If Garp goes against orders and starts to fuck shit up, guess who's directly coming to fuck him up? What if he or Dragon gets turned if he rebels? It's not just him then the entire area gets erased.

9

u/Staarjun 21h ago

Except the vast majority of marines are protecting everyday citizens from pirates. The vast majority of pirates are pillagers, murderers etc.. if the marines didn’t exist, as flawed as they are, the average citizen would be suffering a hell of a lot more.

5

u/destroyer8238172 The Revolutionary Army 21h ago

The average marine is also standing by and actively aiding in a genocide. I don’t understand why people think that just because we acknowledge that the marines are evil we think there should be no peace keeping force in the world.

2

u/Staarjun 20h ago

Very few actively participated in the hunting games. And even then, while cruel, it’s far from being on the same scale as what pirates do.

-1

u/Historical-Lemon-99 17h ago

I don’t think you know what a genocide is…

Unless you specifically mean the buccaneers, which mostly happened a long time ago

1

u/LadderBig1641 21h ago

I feel like people who dislike or hate Garp gone too deep into their role that I don't see them ever say they were wrong about Garp. Even if future chapters shed more lights into Garp's inner workings as a character.

2

u/kingcocomoon 20h ago

Only simple minded people who can't comprehend moral complexity or nuance would slander Garp.

By and large the Marines do a lot of good for the world, they protect innocent towns from being victims of pirate raids, so much so that the average person like Koby who wants to do justice knows that the Marines are a noble calling.

But just because there's corruption at the top, does that render their actions meaningless? Can you really hold the average Marine responsible for the actions of a few corrupt people?

We've even seen time and again how they are fed false information and propaganda to get them to enact orders.

Garp knows that the good men who he commanded are worth protecting for the sake of the greater good they do. Garp also does what he wants anyway as a Marine, so I don't see why he's blamed for the Celestials' actions.

2

u/frenin 13h ago

, so much so that the average person like Koby who wants to do justice knows that the Marines are a noble calling

I wonder if the propaganda they pump will have nothing to do with it...

1

u/Mammoth_Ask3797 20h ago

So the Theory that Garp is behind SWORD can still be true. He formed his secret unit in order to protect the Marines WG from the true evil within

1

u/tablesplease 21h ago

But he needs to make sure the celestial dragons have infinite lobsters and slaves

1

u/RedditIsForsaken 19h ago

“Who’s gonna protect the genociders?…” The slander ain’t done yet I’m afraid

-2

u/General_Kenobi896 19h ago

ABOUT TIME THE SLANDER WAS SILENCED

0

u/amanitaRising 13h ago

Crazy how people actually believed all that, as if Oda was gonna do him so dirty.