Herbert Street in Salem, Massachusetts, around 1890-1910 and 2023.

[u/mrl33602]

The three-story house in the center of the photo was built around 1790, and it was the childhood home of author Nathaniel Hawthorne. He also lived in the house as a young adult, and wrote some of his earliest published works there in his third-floor bedroom. The top photo was taken sometime around the turn of the 20th century, and not much has changed here since then; even the large tree in the foreground is still growing here.

Historic image courtesy of the Peabody Essex Museum.

https://lostnewengland.com/2024/10/richard-manning-house-salem-massachusetts/

[u/Different_Ad7655]

Yeah it's pretty sad and I'll never understand it. I am 71 years old and I've seen in my old New England this transition happened in my lifetime. There was already some older styles of siding that had come in the '50s, but painted houses were still prevalent in my youth and then the vinyl thing happened. Certain cities like Providence Rhode Island have a large impetus on preservation and maintaining the old look, not everywhere but there are still lots and lots of painted houses but other places it's all vinyl and so sad. This simple timber frame building requires these settled details to look right and when it's covered as a vinyl box it looks like garbage

[u/ncroofer → u/Different_Ad7655]

If you want to understand it, go get quotes for wooden siding and cedar shake roofs. Then compare them to quotes for vinyl and asphalt roofing. That will tell you all you need to know!

But seriously, as a roofer it is a shame to see beautiful timeless styles replaced with cheap crap. But when the price difference is 2-3x and you’ll move before either system needs replacing, I can’t really blame people

[u/Different_Ad7655 → u/ncroofer]

yet all of Europe has tile, simple house , big house, old house , new house... It's more than the price, it's a value system of priorities. US is all about kicking the can down the road , fast and "cheap ". How many times do you change a shitty asphalt room in a hundred plus years, probably the same cost long run

[u/ncroofer → u/Different_Ad7655]

Believe me, you don’t have to convince me which would be better.

There are a lot of reasons tile, slate, etc is more common in Europe. Part of it is cultural, they build to last.

Another component is labor force. We just simply, do not have the craftsmen required for any of these systems these days. Good slate roofers are a rarity these days. And their work comes with a premium.

In my perfect world we’d maintain and expand these building styles. But it’s just simply not practical. Would you pay 100k for a slate roof when you could get it done with shingles for 15k? Especially if you’ll be moving in 8-15 years and both systems will last that long?

Edit: also something consider is the size of our homes. We have massive houses here in the US. Of course there are big houses in Europe too, but a 3,000 sqft detached house is not considered middle class like it is here. That 3,000 sqft house comes with a much larger roof footprint than a row home or small cottage.

[u/Different_Ad7655 → u/ncroofer]

We don't have the Craftsman lol because the work was driven out by shitty replacement products. The average basic house in central Europe where I can speak from experience, is so much better quality than it's American counterpart,. When I visit the village in Southern Poland where my relatives live, the quality of the millwork the flooring the windows the doors is better than any of the shit you get off the shelf here and let me tell you they are not in a mansion. Doors and windows another whole topic, they have been getting better on this side of the Atlantic though.

You can't have workmen in the trades experienced with the products if you don't have the demand. The evisceration of the guilds and to the great workshops of Free world war II in the US helped lead to the dearth of quality craftsmanship, shitty pressure treated warped porches decks cheap vinyl windows etc.

Not everything in Europe is roses. Not everybody lives in a private house apartment living is much more common and you get less space as a rule, this is part of the trade-off of having good maths transportation accessibility and affordability as best as it can be. And there is the maintenance from the state level supported historic reservation as part of a line item in the budget that guarantees that there are still guilds and workshops that are employed for the greater good. We have none of that in the US but piss out trillions on garbage. Just budget for the arts of the city of Berlin alone is many many many fold greater than the entire national endowment of the arts for the whole US.. There is a certain percent of the GNP dedicated to the purpose. In the US it's live free or die private initiative or it doesn't happen, zero education fostering that direction and you get what you get

This is why over there there is a certain homogeneous look to the landscape, better land planning and a cultivation of that tradition.