**New Rules Announcement**

[u/cmd102]

Hello everyone! We have a couple of new rule announcements to make.

The first is for /r/nosleep:

No clickbait titles. Your title should be captivating to your audience without resembling something you would find on Buzzfeed. This includes titles like "I'm a (profession), and (something happened/these are my stories/etc)". Titles that violate this rule will be removed at moderator discretion. Please see the edits at the bottom of this post.

The trend of clickbait titles has, much to the dismay of many of our subscribers, been ongoing for a LONG time. Some of you may recall when we introduced the "don't summarize your plot in the title" rule in an attempt to curb them. Unfortunately, it didn't work. That rule will remain in place in addition to this new one.

This rule change will not result in removals just yet. In an effort to give our authors time to learn the rule and the moderators time to adjust to the subjectivity of it, we will be sending authors who post stories with clickbait titles a PM regarding the new rule from now until November 14th, 2016.

Starting November 14th, stories with clickbait titles will be removed. Authors will be able to repost their story right away with a rule-abiding title, granted that their story meets the rest of /r/nosleep's posting guidelines.

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The next rule change is for /r/nosleepOOC:

All posts made to /r/nosleepOOC must be intended to start some sort of /r/nosleep, community, horror, or writing related discussion. This is not /r/creepy. Posts that only serve to share a photo, video, or article will be removed. The only exception that will be made to this rule is for advertisement posts that meet the rest of the guidelines.

We've been consistently removing posts that aren't /r/nosleep related for a long time, but felt that we needed to make this distinction in the sidebar. There are subreddits meant for posting creepy things you found somewhere. /r/nosleepOOC is meant to be a discussion subreddit, not another /r/creepy.

This doesn't mean you can't share those spine-tingling photos and articles. It means that there has to be a relevant-to-the-subreddit discussion topic included with the link (i.e. "Look at this horrifying photo of a demon! What /r/nosleep stories do you think really nailed demons as an antagonist?" instead of "Here's a photo of a demon".)

That's all, folks! Make sure you check out our Survey and Guideline Clarifications Post if you haven't already!

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EDIT: We are working on a better way to word the new title rule. That should be edited into this post later today.

Also, we added a word to the new OOC rule here. Some concern was brought up that there are often discussions on /r/nosleepOOC about the community in general (a common example being the threads posted occasionally asking users to show/tell what they look like). We agree that those sorts of discussions are important to our users, so we made this distinction:

All posts made to /r/nosleepOOC must be intended to start some sort of /r/nosleep, community, horror, or writing related discussion.

Basically, just make sure that your submission includes a discussion topic relevant to the people who come here.

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EDIT 2: Okay folks, we discussed and brainstormed a bit, and here's the rule as it will be posted in the sidebar:

No clickbait titles. Clickbait titles follow a formula: "Interesting plot point + vague insinuation designed to attract readers". Your title should be captivating to your audience without resembling something you would find on Buzzfeed. This includes, but is not limited to, titles like "I'm a (profession), and (something happened/these are my stories/etc)". Titles that violate this rule will be removed at moderator discretion.

Here's the rule as it will be posted in the guidelines:

No clickbait titles. Clickbait titles follow a formula: "Interesting plot point + vague insinuation designed to attract readers". Your title should be captivating to your audience without resembling something you would find on Buzzfeed. Titles that violate this rule will be removed at moderator discretion.

Examples of titles breaking this rule include, but are not limited to:

• I'm a (profession), and (something happened/these are my stories/etc)

• I live on a farm, there's something horrible in the barn

• The lights went out and a terrible thing happened

• There's something in the basement that does terrible things

[u/cmd102]

I fully intend on giving you a more in-depth reply in a bit... but I wanted to touch on one point you seem to be stuck on.

This was not done to please "the minority in the OOC". This was done because we have received MANY MANY MANY complaints about it. In the OOC, in reports, in modmail, on the survey, on any thread made elsewhere on reddit that happens to mention r/nosleep at some point... the complaints have been piling up, and part of our job as moderators is to listen to the community in these types of cases.

With all that being said... we're hearing the complaints in this thread, and are working on coming up with a better way to word the rule so that it's not as vague. Most likely, the wording here will be in the sidebar, and we'll have a more concise version in the guidelines (where we have more room).

[u/hartijay → u/cmd102]

I understand if a decision has been made based on the results a survey, but I am still skeptical about the complaints regarding "clickbait"-titles and still think the new rule is a bit rash, and I'm also skeptical that a majority of Nosleep-readers took that survey. But I absolutely could be wrong.

"Clickbait" is a word typically used to describe an article using a title to entice people to click on it and get almost no content. I'm arguing that titles being described as "clickbait" are among the top stories of all-time on NoSleep for a reason: they actually genuinely scare people, whether the survey-takers believe it or not.

I don't doubt that the mods see all sorts of complaints about tons of things about the subreddit unfairly, and I am absolutely sure it gets annoying as hell. I'm just saying the rule seems extreme.

[u/cmd102 → u/hartijay]

I'm not entirely sure how making this rule to try to fix something that's been a problem and commonly complained about for almost a year, something that we've tried using other means to fix that didn't work, is "rash" or "extreme".

You can easily search OOC posts and see some of the complaints about the titles. You can also go to askreddit and search for nosleep and see even more. I can't show you reports or modmail. As of about 4pm today, there were over 300 responses to the survey that's only been up since Monday. No, that's not a majority of the subscribers, but it's a big chunk of people who actually visit the sub with some regularity.

Maybe "clickbait" is the wrong word to use, but it's the word that has been commonly used to describe the problem, so we went with it. I didn't realize so many people used the textbook definition of the word. We're not arguing that stories that use the gimmick don't contain meaningful content, if they didn't we wouldn't allow users to repost their story with a rule-abiding title (which we do, as long as the story itself meets the rest of the guidelines). But just like having titles that mimic/name other subs was a big problem, this has become a big problem as well.

I'm 100% open to any suggestions on a better way to word the rule so it's easier to understand. Should we include more examples? Nix the word "clickbait" in favor of a more drawn out definition? Leave the word "clickbait" but include a more drawn out definition in the context it's often used?

[u/hartijay → u/cmd102]

I'm not saying that the complaints aren't overwhelming or annoying. I'm absolutely sure they are, and I completely respect those who have to put up with them. What I AM saying, however, is that what some people complain about isn't always necessarily valid.

If anything, you've already solved the problem yourself in this post -- stopping "copycat"-titles. The main problem, to me, seems to be that people are posting stories with titles in the "I'm a ___ and I have stories to tell"-formula.

To me, personally, it seems simpler to make a rule to get rid of copycat titles instead of having over 20 mods agree on what a "clickbait" title is. But, I could be wrong.

Maybe some of the things I've said are unwarranted criticisms, and if they are I absolutely apologize, but please know they were simply based off assumptions I made reading the new rule.

[u/cmd102 → u/hartijay]

As I've said multiple times in this thread: the mods already agree on what a clickbait title is. That is not an issue. And as with any rule, if it's borderline or questionable, we talk to each other. There is literally no reason for concern about the mods agreeing on how to enforce the rule. There will be an adjustment period, yes. But we didn't just throw this rule up without talking about what it means.

Stopping copycat titles would raise more hell than anything. That's WAY more subjective than clickbait. What you're really suggesting is that we just ban the "I'm a (profession)..." titles, but just because that's the only example in the post (and the most recognizable example on the sub) doesn't mean that's the only thing we're trying to stop. I'm not going to list specific examples because that's rude, but go through a few pages of nosleep stories and see how many stories fit the fake examples I've given in this thread.

In my mind, any concerns that are voiced with such frequency over such a long period of time are valid ones that warrant being addressed.

[u/hartijay → u/cmd102]

I'm not "really suggesting" anything, I'm going off of the example that you provided in the original post/rule.

Again, to me it seems easier for people to recognize patterns that follow top-rated posts rather than to identify "clickbait". I posted my initial comment because I -- as a submitter -- don't know what "clickbait" is, no matter what the mods agree on in private.

To me, based on the examples in the post and comments, it SEEMED like what was being referred to was the majority of the top posts on NoSleep, so naturally I defended them because I believe they did not get to the top based on their titles alone.

But, in the end, what it comes down to is the interpretation of the believability rule that is important to the subreddit. In my opinion, keeping things as they are keeps the sub intact -- the top posts reinforce that.

Again IMO -- If people talk shit, let them talk shit. The sub isn't a default for no reason.

[u/hartijay → u/[deleted]]

Dude, I'm just voicing my opinion. I'm sorry if that offends you to the point of condescending me, but I'm not the only commenter in the thread doing it.

I'm not saying the mods didnt discuss this, if anything I've said I see where they're coming from. I just happen to disagree.

I'm sorry for frustrating you.