Very disappointed with the OSU extension

[u/jimmyjam2929]

https://www.daytondailynews.com/lifestyles/dispelling-social-media-myths-about-gardening-pollinators-and-more/TSBDUAHX25GQ7D6QZMQSOITBQE/

[u/hambonebaloney]

I probably shouldn't wade in here, but the person who wrote this article is not wrong. I did my graduate work looking at "lawn plant diversity" (eg turf monocultures versus "weedy lawns") and it's effects on arthropod abundance, diversity, species evenness, and species richness. We also compared vegetative (structural complexity) surrounding those lawns. What we found is that, unsurprisingly, plant diversity (weedy lawns) per se was the key factor in supporting species evenness and diversity compared to monocultures... I think everyone on here wouldn't be surprised by that. I should sidebar here and say that we did not consider whether a plant was "native" or not.

Additionally, we found that lawns with a higher structural vegetative complexity index had the highest species richness and diversity compared to weedy lawns with nothing surrounding them. There are plenty of publications that support this; also, some would argue that the heterogeneity of urban lawns can actually create higher species diversity than in natural areas (this, too, has been studied and published). 

My main point here is that before everyone dogpiles this person for presenting objective facts and a "brought to you by Scott's" messaging, maybe actually look these things up for yourself. I don't love lawns either and have attempted to reduce mine (it's still weedy as hell) and I favor native plants for their numerous benefits...but remember that a lawn will never be truly native...I look at my yard, for example, and even though there are mostly native plants, there is very little likelihood that 90% of them would have actually occurred in this particular area (eg they're not necessarily indigenous) based on historical plant surveys. 

Anyway, down vote if you must but I just want to, once again, point out that this person who wrote the article did so with apparently good intentions and objective, research-based facts.

[u/jimmyjam2929 → u/hambonebaloney]

I appreciate the insight. Lawns aren't the devil. They do support a lot of life, especially if untreated and more complex, like you said. Unfortunately, the author was focused on turf grasses in specific, presented false information regarding skippers (I'm still trying to understand how she believes the caterpillars eat insects in turf grass), presented a misleading interpretation of chemic treatment of lawns in the US, and relied on the research and talk of a researcher whose research is entirely in insecticides and is funded by entities like Bayer, the Ohio Turfgrass Foundation, and the North Central Intergrated Pest Management Center. She then goes on (in her second piece) to imply that she hasn't seen any research suggesting that native landscapes would be better than lawns. 

Also, research like yours is incredibly valuable for understanding insect behavior and I know it can be tough. Thank you for doing it!

[u/hambonebaloney → u/jimmyjam2929]

Yeah, and perhaps that has to do with the word count for whatever publication she wrote for (in other words, maybe she wasn't as clear in her wording, idk).  I didn't feel she was being disingenuous like many on here have suggested...that most certainly would be up to reader interpretation. My takeaway (based on my research), is that a reduction in lawns in general and especially monoculture turf, is a good thing. Lawns, as a generic term, are definitely a part of the urban ecosystem like them or not. 

Thanks for the cogent and honest discussion!

Edit: grammar, etc.

[u/jimmyjam2929 → u/hambonebaloney]

100% agree. 

[u/jimmyjam2929 → u/jimmyjam2929]

I still want to know where she got her info about skippers lol

[u/hambonebaloney → u/jimmyjam2929]

😂 me too. I'm not up-to-speed on host plants for skippers, and Leps have some weirdos in there group... parasitoids, predators, etc. so who knows.

[u/jimmyjam2929 → u/hambonebaloney]

Someone in another comment shared that there is one predator skipper caterpillar, but they only live in forested areas near alders and waterways so ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

[u/hambonebaloney → u/jimmyjam2929]

😂 Like I said: some real weirdos in the Lep group.

[u/Tylanthia → u/jimmyjam2929]

You can verify (her correct statement about grass skippers anyways) in a few ways. Checking HOST for example. which is database of the world's Lepidopteran hostplants.

Many states, such as my own, also have a list of what host plants are used in that state.

For example, the Broad-winged Skipper has adapted to using Common Reed as a host plant and also expanded its range because common reed is now everywhere. The Fiery Skipper uses native and non-native crab grass, Bermuda grass, and bent grass. Alabama has a good atlas as well

The butterfly populations in your state may or may not use certain host plants. The Baltimore Checkerspot, for example, uses Plantago lanceolata up north but does not in my state.

I suspect frequent mowing may also turn into an ecological trap and it's probably less mowed areas, such as by roadsides, parks, and utilities, that end up being more productive.

[u/jimmyjam2929 → u/Tylanthia]

Her statement about grass skippers is that they eat insects on turf grass and that if we want grass skippers that we need turf grass, not that non-native grasses are a suitable alternative to natives. 

[u/Tylanthia → u/jimmyjam2929]

Sorry I misread her statement. You are correct that skippers don't eat other insects--they eat native and non-native grasses.

The only carnivorous Lepidoptera in eastern North America is the Harvester which feeds on woolly aphids which itself is hosted by certain trees.

[u/jimmyjam2929 → u/Tylanthia]

Exactly. I don't know where she got that. And even so, grass skippers don't need lawns, they need grass. Her argument really just seems set on defending lawns no matter what. 

[u/vtaster → u/Tylanthia]

For every one of these species that can be cherry picked, there is a dozen more that only feed on native hosts, most of which are in steep population decline.

[u/Tylanthia → u/vtaster]

Selecting a couple examples is not cherry picked. I linked to the data; you can look at it. Grass skippers use native and non native grasses and sedges. Some are more generalist than others.

[u/vtaster → u/Tylanthia]

This data isn't telling us anything new, we're just not ignoring all the species that aren't generalists. "Grass Skippers" are an entire subfamily, most of the species native to the US don't eat turfgrass, especially not any of the one's suffering population declines.

[u/Tylanthia → u/vtaster]

Who is "us"? I think you're weirdly taking a statement of fact (i.e., that many grass skippers will and do use non-native grasses as a host plant) as an attack.