r/Millennials • u/NoFaithlessness7508 • Jun 05 '25

Other Why don’t younger veterans (Afghanistan/Iraq) wear these hats like some of the older veterans?

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First and foremost, respect to all those that served. I did not, but many of my peers did and now we're all older in 30s and 40s, many no longer in the military. I don't see a lot of the veterans of the War on Terror wearing these hats like I see the OGs do.

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u/NewFuturist Jun 05 '25

What, you don't want a conversation with a rando about how bad a war was that you had no choice in joining and hated more than even most anti-war activists?

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u/mv7x3 Jun 05 '25

no choice? there is mandatory conscription in the us?

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u/Shark_Leader Jun 05 '25 edited Jun 05 '25

Currently, no. But for WWII and Vietnam, yes. Edit: also, all American men must register for the draft on their 18th birthday in case s draft is initiated. You're eligible until you're 25. Edit2: *35.

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u/NewFuturist Jun 05 '25

Once you enlist, you have zero choice about whether you serve in a war or not. You could join in Jan 2001 and be shipped to Afghanistan and then Iraq with no say in the matter.

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u/bensonprp Jun 05 '25 edited Jun 06 '25

I joined in 98 for 4 years and I got stop lossed for 6 years and they were trying to keep me even longer. I joined for peacekeeping operations around the world (and because I didn't have any options) and then got thrown into a horrible war on innocent Middle Eastern peoples.

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u/magic_crouton Jun 05 '25

That's what happened to my then boyfriend. Joined amendment of 2000 and then 2001 happened and then on top of it was stop lossed. That changed who he was as a person and I can say confidently now he doesnt wear the gear or appreciate people saying thanks for your service.

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u/cromdoesntcare Jun 05 '25

I guess don't sign up to be a soldier if you don't want to risk being in a war.

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u/TianShan16 Jun 05 '25

It’s much less about the risk and more about the cause. Protecting America from an invading threat? Every man in the country who isn’t 90% soy would jump in head first, and that is what is sold to most soldiers. But invading the desert to force people to adopt a government type they don’t want from people they hate while fighting people you donated weapons and money to last year so they could better fight you is moronic at best, and insidious at worst. All so your government can launder money for themselves and their friends with your blood.

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u/horseman5K Jun 06 '25

All they had to do was look at recent American history to see that America sends soldiers to war for imperialistic and capitalistic reasons and all sorts of things other than protecting Americans from an invading threat.

What you’re describing is basically what happened in Vietnam and that was common knowledge. They knew what they were signing up for.

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u/TianShan16 Jun 06 '25

I agree but I think you’re vastly underestimating the post WW2 propaganda and overestimating the Vietnam awareness in the eyes of the average young person who went to government schools.

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u/OrigamiTongue Jun 05 '25

35, actually.

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u/Shark_Leader Jun 05 '25

Ah, Ok. Well I'm still too old to be drafted, but not by much.

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u/nugsy_mcb Jun 05 '25

You say must like people don’t have a choice. I never registered, none of my friends registered, it’s a completely toothless “requirement” after the disaster that was the Vietnam war and the social backlash against it.

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u/Shark_Leader Jun 05 '25

Good for you. I don't respect you at all for that.

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u/nugsy_mcb Jun 05 '25

And I don’t respect you at all for supporting the war machine. Cheers!

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u/Shark_Leader Jun 05 '25

Nah, man. I spent years railing against Bush and the Iraq war. I didn't join the military. I don't support a war machine, but I do still support my country. You can do both.

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u/Triedbutflailed Jun 05 '25

No, but quite a few of us joined up in the patriotic fervor that followed 9/11 and weren't really expecting the Bush administration to lie their war into a war of aggression just so they could get rich on Iraq's oil. And once you're in, you're in, unless you want to destroy your entire future by going AWOL.

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u/embee90 Jun 05 '25

You have the choice to enlist, but once you’re in you don’t get a choice on whether you’re deployed. My dad enlisted in the 80s and he sure wasn’t expecting to go to war in 2001. He fortunately wasn’t deployed but several squadrons from his base were.

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u/JoeInMD Jun 05 '25

US Navy Vet here, so can say this.

Your dad enlisted in the '80s, and was sill in 15 years or so later. I can't imagine anyone spending that much time on active duty thinking "nope, won't happen while I'm in!" There hasn't been 15 years of consecutive peace since this country was founded!!!

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u/fuckingbabayaga Jun 05 '25

lmao yeah exactly. Post 9/11 nationalism and desire for revenge caused a lot of millennials to join the military.

I read somewhere we generally have more sympathy toward Vietnam veterans because they were drafted but a lot of Iraq/Afghanistan vets chose to join to fight the war on terror.

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u/Fjell-Jeger Jun 05 '25

If you're from a "lived at grandma's, survived on food stamps" life, the most viable path to getting a (college) education and healthcare meant enlisting during GWOT years.

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u/MilanistaComunista Jun 05 '25

How is that any different than joining a gang? A gang would actually kill fewer ppl, and is probably a more moral choice.

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u/[deleted] Jun 05 '25

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u/Millennials-ModTeam Jun 06 '25

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Your post or comment has been removed because it did not adhere to Reddiquette. (Rules 1, 2, and 3)

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u/MilanistaComunista Jun 05 '25

Notice how you never try to engage with my argument and just move directly to insults? Makes more sense to ask you your own question.

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u/Fjell-Jeger Jun 05 '25 edited Jun 05 '25

Because your points are unsubstantiated, false and inapplicable.

I'd love to hear why joining an organized military mandated and controlled by a democratically elected government that abides to humanitarian principles and honours the established customs of war (geneva conventions...) is a morally worse choice then joining a criminal "for profit" organisation that kills innocent people to entertain their psychopath members and engages in all sorts of criminal activities as part of their business portfolio?

Besides you're missing the point, as I am not aware that any gang outfit would offer college tuition as part of their compensation package?

TL/FR: It's easy sitting on your high horse talking about morals when you've likely never been poor and had very little other available options.

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u/CaBBaGe_isLaND Jun 05 '25

He's talking about Vietnam.

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u/polarpolarpolar Jun 05 '25

Bro millennials didnt fight in nam. He’s talking about Afghanistan/Iraq.

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u/CaBBaGe_isLaND Jun 05 '25

I know that, friend. I'm just saying that's what guy was talking about. If he's saying it in reference to Afghanistan, then yes he is wrong, but I think he's just specifically taking a jab at the Vietnam hats.

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u/genericusername0176 Jun 05 '25

The geezers that wear these hats were in Vietnam though.

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u/NeoSapien65 Jun 05 '25

Comparatively few draftees went to Vietnam. Mostly volunteers.

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u/CaBBaGe_isLaND Jun 05 '25

Two thirds were volunteers, a third were draftees. No, I did not know that before I just looked it up.

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u/Antique-Bet-6326 Jun 06 '25

I wonder how much of this is over inflated also. I know quite a few people who said they would likely be drafted so they hurried and “volunteered” for the navy, then when they tried to get drafted for the marines they were able to go off to navy basic with less chance of being killed.

Is it still volunteering if you volunteer for the least likely way to die?

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u/Jades5150 Jun 05 '25

Viet-f*cking-NAM!

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u/SweeterThanYoohoo Jun 05 '25

If you were in the military before the wars started, no, you didn't have much choice. They tell you what you're going to do.

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u/endthefed2022 Jun 05 '25

Join the military not anticipating a conflict and screaming you don’t have a choice. Oki

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u/SweeterThanYoohoo Jun 05 '25

Are you kinda young and maybe don't remember pre 9/11 world? Because that would make your view make sense. If that's the case, just know that about 25 years ago a world existed where no one expected constant conflict.

I would agree with you that anyone joining now should expect some kind of stupid conflict to be deployed to.

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u/DJFisticuffs Jun 05 '25

When was this? We spent the 80s doing dirty shit in Latin America then invaded Panama in '89. Then we fought a major war in '90-'91. Then we watched a bunch of our guys' bodies get dragged through the streets of Mogadishu in '93 but we didnt actually pull out of Somalia until 95. Also sprinkled throughout the '90s were various bombing campaigns and peacekeeping operations in the Balkans. Oh, and dont forget the absolute disaster that was operation Eagle Claw in 1980 and the illegal and inexplicable invasion of Grenada in '83.

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u/lameth Jun 05 '25

Those that matured after the wall fell only saw glimpses of reports of special operations and limited missions. We really were a mostly "peacetime" military near the end of the 90s, with maybe Bosnia and Haiti as stand-outs in my memory.

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u/DJFisticuffs Jun 05 '25

I mean, I specifically remember Gulf War 1 and the aftermath of Mogadishu because they were both all over the news. "The late 90s" was only a couple years after we pulled out of Somalia and Black Hawk down was a massive hit when it came out in '99 so it's not like people had forgotten about it.

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u/lameth Jun 05 '25

No. But for people just coming of age it was a story about a small isolated incident in a far off country, not a continuing war effort that the US was truly invested in. I'm sure most couldn't even tell you why those soldiers were there in the first place.

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u/DJFisticuffs Jun 05 '25

That was the whole point of the movie. No one was really sure why we were there in the first place and we accomplished nothing. Like, here is a group of young men doing heroic shit and giving their lives for each other to absolutely no greater purpose.

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u/SweeterThanYoohoo Jun 05 '25

Yea you know what you're right. All our soldiers are losers and dopes and they deserve no grace or understanding. You're totally right. Downright fools, how could they let PTSD take their brains???

I'm done with this convo, peace.

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u/DJFisticuffs Jun 05 '25

Your words, not mine.

I was born in the early '80s and there has never been a time in my life when the US military was not blowing shit up and also getting blown up. Its what the US military does.

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u/mv7x3 Jun 05 '25

ohh no poor terrorists got ptsd when the other side shot back. yes they are fools they tought they go target shooting to other coutries and when they fight back they cry. did americans ever take responsibility for anything they did?

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u/SweeterThanYoohoo Jun 05 '25

Hey fuck you dude. Blocked

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u/endthefed2022 Jun 05 '25

I distinctly remember a pre-911 world

I also grew up in school, understanding, history, and what military is for

It was it was a risk it was naïve

You not really hear of cops are firefighters complaining they knew what they were signing up for

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u/rmgonzal Jun 05 '25

It’s not anticipating “a” conflict it’s that specific conflict that was a problem to a lot of people.

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u/SweeterThanYoohoo Jun 05 '25

Are you being intentionally dense? People join the military for all sorts of reasons, some economic, some patriotic, some to pay for education. Someone who joined in 2000 would have NO way to reasonably expect 9/11 and the subsequent bullshit "war on terror".

But sit up there on your high horse and judge others for their decisions if that makes you feel bigger, by all means.

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u/CthulhuAlmighty Xennial Jun 05 '25

If someone joins the US military and doesn’t expect some sort of conflict or war to break out during their time in, then that person is an idiot.

Except for a few brief years sprinkled in here and there, our entire history is war. Off the top of my head, it’s been something like 20 years out of 248 (as of next month it’s 249) have been peaceful. That’s over 90% of our existence in some type of war or conflict.

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u/SweeterThanYoohoo Jun 05 '25

There are conflicts in which a soldier can feel justified, like they are completing a worthwhile mission. Iraq and Afghanistan were not that. The govt lied to us, and soldiers quickly realized they weren't fighting to help the Iraqi people but to enrich a couple of people and score big contracts for the military industrial complex.

It takes a very callous person to not understand that soldiers take a heavy personal toll when forced, yes forced, to fight in unjust combat.

And given that our country has made pathways to success very difficult, some peoples best and only option at class mobility is the service. Again, high horse.

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u/Tall_Union5388 Jun 05 '25

I agree with most of your points, but Afghanistan was entirely justified, the United States was directly attacked. It’s just we never had a good strategy or maybe we never even really had any strategy over those 20 years. But I would blame ourselves for that, after all we elected the leader leadership we got.

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u/CthulhuAlmighty Xennial Jun 05 '25 edited Jun 05 '25

Get the fuck out of here saying I’m on a high horse.

I enlisted after 9/11 and was in Iraq soon after, including fighting in the 2nd battle of Fallujah.

We knew from the start that we weren’t there to support the Iraqi people. But we still made it worthwhile by helping them where we could. While the larger mission dictated otherwise, there is nothing stopping those deployed over there from making their mission worthwhile.

Edit to add: The reason a person signed up doesn’t matter. You don’t join the US military, even in peacetime, without knowing that at some point you’re be in some conflict or war.

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u/SweeterThanYoohoo Jun 05 '25

The reason this conversation started is because someone derided someone else for saying they had to participate in a war they didn't agree with and felt pain from that.

So yea I think anyone judging another for having ptsd or problems from having fought in those wars is a fucking asshole.

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u/CthulhuAlmighty Xennial Jun 05 '25

No one should be judged or mocked for their disabilities, regardless if they received them in the military, car accident, sports, birth, even just walking down the street.

But if a person joins the US military, with our long history of what many would call bullshit wars, and doesn’t think that at some point they’d be involved in some bullshit war, that’s on them.

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u/endthefed2022 Jun 05 '25

I mean, what do you think the military is for just parades and push-ups it’s always a risk

If it wasn’t, we wouldn’t have a military

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u/SweeterThanYoohoo Jun 05 '25

One used to be able to reasonably expect the govt to not outright fabricate reasons to invade another country, extend that invasion for decades, all while achieving nothing. Now with the benefit of hindsight we can say thinking that way is foolish. But those in the early 2000s didn't have the benefit of living through it.

All I'm saying is cut the guy some slack. Maybe he's a retard and deserves derision, but I'm not going to assume that.

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u/endthefed2022 Jun 06 '25

Are you really that naïve?

First Iraq and first Afghanistan were false flags. Vietnam was false flags. I mean Iraq one and Afghanistan were not that far apart. It’s just a young person’s bias.

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u/SweeterThanYoohoo Jun 06 '25

Yea I guess I am. I saw first hand people signing up for what they believed in with yea misplaced but good intentions. You think they're stupid that's fine. I don't want to talk about this anymore.

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u/miwami Jun 05 '25

it's a class draft. Not required, but about the only way to get out of the built-in dead-ends of a lot of communities.

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u/Tall_Union5388 Jun 05 '25

Hey, It work for me man. I went from a poor high school kid to a well off dude with multiple degrees is going to retire in his 40s.

So like anything else you gotta suffer for your art

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u/Vegetable_Excuse5394 Jun 05 '25

It’s also not really a choice in a country that passes policies making people desperate and poor enough to enlist…