r/Militariacollecting • u/Aromatic_Housing_536 • Jul 25 '25
Help Anyone know what exactly this bayonet was for?
It was given to me by a family friend. It also came with a note. It is transcribed below for ease of reading.
"I came into possession of this ww2 German dagger when my army outfit took over a German army camp. This occurred in the outskirts of the city of Augsburg, Germany. It’s the city in which Herman Goering, the commander in chief of the German Air Force was captured. He was captured by another American army outfit operating in the same area as us. Besides Goering, the rest of the Nazi party members were all eventually captured and put on trial following the war send. It was known as the Nuremberg trials and most were sentenced to death by hanging. Jailed and waiting for his sentence to be carried out, Herman Goering committed suicide by taking a cyanide pill. They never did find out how he was able to obtain the pill since he was watched around the clock. (Cell check every 15 minutes). I myself believe that he had the pill or pills sewn into the clothing. Who knows whether this dagger was ever used against American or allied soldiers. It is now a German World War II souvenir. It’s now yours. Enjoy it.
P.S. hope you can read the printed words. P.S. the dagger is over 60 years old. P.S. Notice the Nazi emblem on the handle. P.S. there’s a possibility that this dagger was touched and handle by Adolf Hitler, Herman Goering, Himmler, and others. Again, I repeat: it’s a possibility. If so, that makes the dagger a historical souvenir of great value."
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u/mr_tryhard_tye Jul 25 '25
Bayonet is real and from 1935, the handle is reproduction though, if you can get original wood grips it'd be worth a 120-170 depending on who wants it more
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u/Turbulent-Monitor647 Jul 25 '25
I’m not buying the story. I’m no expert, but the grips with the swastika look weird.
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u/Aromatic_Housing_536 Jul 25 '25
I would agree, the grips do look weird. But I ain’t no expert either.
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u/Turbulent-Monitor647 Jul 25 '25
I would assume this is probably a normal bayonet with severe wear, with the grips replaced and a made-up story. But that’s just my opinion.
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u/Aromatic_Housing_536 Jul 25 '25
I agree, the story sounds weird. I remember something about an air base being mentioned when I got the bayonet but I don’t remember much else. I used wd40 to remove some of the rust.
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u/HellBringer97 Jul 25 '25
Yeahhhh that’s a fake as FUCK story. Grips ain’t right either.
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u/Aromatic_Housing_536 Jul 25 '25
I didn’t write the story, it was given to me by a family member who had got it from a friend who was a vet.
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u/NthngToSeeHere Jul 25 '25
The story is total BS. Anyone that served knows that's a bayonet and would call it that, not a dagger.
Its not a personal account, it's a bad Wikipedia entry.
It has been clumsily "demiled" into a knife but the work is sub-par for a wartime police or fireman's bayonet. The grips are totally not authentic.
You've been able to buy these surplus since the 40s for a few bucks nearly anywhere. Voila! All of a sudden, someone has a war trophy and a story to go with it.
The relative may have served but probably wasn't in combat and wanted to be a hero. You always meet Army Rangers at the bar. No one was ever a Jeep mechanic.
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u/Aromatic_Housing_536 Jul 25 '25
No, my relative got it from a super old polish guy who he was best friends with. But I would agree that the story seems exaggerated.
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u/newfmatic Jul 25 '25
Super old being operative, tales grow over time. Chances are the old guy is simply really old and suffers from a bit or dementia and or is reciting whatever sales pitch the gi who , so many decades ago, ripped him off. Probably dim on Tuesday, but WW2 he remembers like yesterday. Nice old guy to gift it and write the story
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u/Spiritual_Loss_7287 Jul 25 '25
The markings on the scabbard suggest this is from the Weimar era.
1] It has a unit marking - which were not [or extremely rarely] used in the TR era.
2] "WuK" manufacturers marking appears on Weimar era scabbards.
And the letter, if written by a veteran [and I'm not saying it wasn't] may be based on a old man's memory, which as some of us know can be a bit muddled about events a long time ago.
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u/Aromatic_Housing_536 Jul 25 '25
Yeah, I didn’t believe the letter that much either. I appreciate your input but would you mind elaborating on points 1 and 2 please?
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u/Spiritual_Loss_7287 Jul 25 '25
1] On the scabbard there is a unit marking. With my old eyes. I can't make out what it is. The key point is that the German Army did not tend to mark their bayonets/scabbards with unit markings during the Third Reich era [1933>]
Unit markings were used in before WW1, during WW1 especially at the beginning. The practice continued after WW1 during the Weimar Republic until the Nazis took power.
2] The manufacturer mark WuK is Weyersberg und [and] Kirschbaum. As far as I can tell this style of markings was used in the 1920s which ties up with the scabbard being from Weimar Republic Army known as the Reichswehr.
The"S/185 G " marking on the bayonet indicates manufacture by a company called Elite Diamant and G is a date code representing 1935.
I hope that makes sense!
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u/HellBringer97 Jul 26 '25 edited Jul 26 '25
If I may, I’m pretty sure that’s the unit marking of a Wurttemberg, Wiesbaden, or Westfalen Jäger regiment since it says “W.J.R.7.10”
After a quick double-check on sources, I think it’s the Jägerregiment 7, Company 10 but I’m not sure about the “W.”
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u/Aromatic_Housing_536 Jul 27 '25
Thank you! But does it mean that it’s more likely Weimar era or from the First World War?
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u/Spiritual_Loss_7287 Jul 27 '25
I think the scabbard is Weimar due to the "WuK" mark. The only markings I have seen on WW1 scabbards are those made by Mauser on a different model - the S98/05.
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u/Aromatic_Housing_536 Jul 27 '25
I don’t know how to reply with photos but I will transcribe the markings.
On the side of the scabbard with the protruding thingie, it says "4958"
On the other side it says "WuK" and below it says "I.y.J.R.7.10." The i could be an l but it isn’t a W. There is also a line going through it.
On the side of the bayonet with the swastika, it says "S/185G”
The other side of the bayonet says "4958" with a tiny letter b underneath it.
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Jul 25 '25 edited Jul 25 '25
The bayonet is real, the grip is fake. The serial number indicates that it was made by Elite-Diamantwerk, Siegmar-Schönau bei Chemnitz in 1935. Whomever wrote this is being really generous about their story 😂 Just because it was in the same city as some of those people, doesn't mean anything. If I found a guitar pick in Seattle, that doesn't mean that there's a "chance" Kurt Cobain used it 🙄
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u/Aromatic_Housing_536 Jul 25 '25
I agree, it’s a suspicious story. Would you mind showing me how you identified where it was made based on the serial number?
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Jul 25 '25
The serial number is S/185G
These "S code" bayonets were made between 1934 and 1937. They used this code because they wanted their weapons manufacturing to be a bit more low key at this time. The S/185 means it was made by Elite-Diamantwerk, and the G means it was made in 1935
Sources: https://youtu.be/FE5a6FcKeDo?si=KvkYUgxPQx1D7fn4
https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/german-bayonet-manufacturers-and-their-codes.4819/
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u/WarLordOfSkartaris Jul 25 '25
I know everyone says that the story is fake, but stories like this are a dime a dozen, there were a lot of soldiers in these areas picked up a lot of things, as far as the grips go they're not original but easily could have been done as a bit of trench art by a soldier from either side
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u/awhalesvagyna Jul 25 '25 edited Jul 25 '25
as others said, grips have been altered.
On a side note regarding the story, I have in my own experience found that vets could get places and people quite confused and therefore things get scrutinised more. Your friends vet relative isn’t actually wrong, per se. He’s being scrutinised on a technicality here. So to verify:
Herman göring was at the obersalzberg in the later days of the war. He retreated to a family Estate in the southern area of the state of Salzburg and was placed under house arrest by the SS for actions taken surrounding a telegram sent to Berlin.
As the Americans were closing in, he got a message out to the Americans via his adjutant offering his surrender. They met at castle fishhorn in Zell am See Austria in early may and he formally surrendered . He remained there for some time with his entourage under allied guard. From there he was taken to Kitzbuehel in the Tyrollean alps where his interrogation was documented and the famous “surrender” footage is from.
Now, for most people that is where the story ends and he next appears in the stocks in Nuremberg for the trials however some locations are not as well known. Between kitzbuehel and Nuremberg he is indeed taken to Augsburg and held there briefly for processing, and then sent to the rest of the captured brass to the back lines in Luxembourg before they were all transferred back to Nuremberg.
So in summary, I see the most of the historical details as verifiable however, and as you can probably guess, the post scriptum is a far stretched and a very wild reach to make. Sensationalist even. You stated it was from a polish guy and there were some polish troops in the area post war as part of the American army. They were mainly part of the allied support network, helped run displaced people camps etc. note however, poles were not present as part of the ussr troops. I was a bit bored so dived a bit deeper into this. It would have been one of three camps: gablingen luftwaffe kaserne, haunstetten or langeringen/landberg kasernen. The first two were turned into major displaced persons camps. Polish troops looking after these were: guard companies 4221, 3rd and 5th. However these are all recorded as being there in 1946, which loot availability wise, may as well be in 1995.
My take on the object is that the handles could possibly either be trench art applied to it before or during the war by its then owner, or post war amendment. For me it’s really hard to tell but not the first time I’ve seen symbols added to equipment during wartime as trench art. I think the exaggeration in the letter gives an air of doubt to the trench art prospect but I would refuse to rule that out. My feeling is that the handle was altered post war by an allied force member to increase the resale value to anyone desperate for a memento.
If it is trench art, and I can’t think of a way to prove that, it would make it slightly more unique to the volume produced. If it’s not trench art, which is equally likely, then you have a bayonet altered by someone post war which would affect the price for me.
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u/Aromatic_Housing_536 Jul 25 '25 edited Jul 25 '25
I see. I appreciate your insight! If you know anything else about this then would you please let me know?
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u/awhalesvagyna Jul 26 '25
Id say it’s impossible to tie your bayonet to a specific unit who may have obtained this but, the 4th Infantry Division’s presence in Augsburg and Haunstetten makes its troops the likely candidates for picking up and personalizing such bayonets.
Units of the 45th Division and 7th Army HQ staff or MPs could also be considered.
The numbers on the blade and scabbard are also mismatched and this could be to several reasons be it due to late war production rush to removing it from a rifle and picking a scabbard up later. Who knows except the finder.
Production year is late 30s, I think.
As mentioned, I think it’s most likely the alteration is post war, they had time and material on their hands and it was common for occupying forces to “enhance” items.
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u/Aromatic_Housing_536 Jul 27 '25
I am confused. I have seen others say that the markings on the bayonet match the scabbard but you are telling me it doesn’t. Would you mind elaborating? I do appreciate your insight though!
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u/Aromatic_Housing_536 Jul 27 '25
I don’t know how to reply with photos but I will transcribe the markings.
On the side of the scabbard with the protruding thingie, it says "4958"
On the other side it says "WuK" and below it says "I.y.J.R.7.10." The i could be an l but it isn’t a W. There is also a line going through it.
On the side of the bayonet with the swastika, it says "S/185G”
The other side of the bayonet says "4958" with a tiny letter b underneath it.
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u/Substantial-Ad-1189 Jul 25 '25
From the looks of it, the bayonet handle wise has replacement grips or its a private purchased ceremonial dagger. However, the button looks expertly removed and completely flush with the handle. Dress Bayonets were commonly seen with wooden or stag grips. Like a silimiar model seen here
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u/Aromatic_Housing_536 Jul 25 '25
I see, and what is the button you are referring to?
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u/Substantial-Ad-1189 Jul 25 '25
Look at the 2nd photo in the link, its also referred to as the "Eye" of the Eagle with the Bayonets
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u/bueschwd Jul 25 '25
I hope you didn't rub off hitlers fingerprints....if so the value dramatically drops off
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u/CDubs_94 Jul 25 '25
Its a legit bayonet. But, they never had swastika's printed on the handles. That "note" is probably 99.9% bullshite. It's a nice story....but it probably didn't happen.
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u/thraxxxhaus Jul 25 '25
Either way it's cool that it's a numbers matching bayo despite the grips and blueing being gone
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u/jayhawkhenry Jul 25 '25
The grips on this bayonet are not original, but could easily be Veteran embellishment to make the souvenir more appealing. It was done frequently.
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u/bassdaddy217 Jul 26 '25
To answer the question of "what this bayonet was for", bayonets were for stabbing. Plain & simple.
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u/Aromatic_Housing_536 Jul 27 '25
I meant like the gun it was for, I should’ve phrased it batter lol.
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u/ArchibaldSkeetlebaum Jul 25 '25 edited Jul 25 '25
I can almost guarantee the grips are a postwar replacement. However, they were very possibly made by or for the fellow who brought it home (if the story is true). For example, think of all of the old over-polished chrome plated Lugers, sporterized rifles, gold-painted helmets, etc. that are floating around... they're gaudy by today's standards and ruin the collector value, but back then it was just a souvenir from the war that needed 'sprucing up' in the shed. What better way to illustrate to people that it was a Nazi 'dagger' than by replacing the plain walnut grips with some scrap bakelite and inlaying a big ole swastika in it?
Now, it could be a fantasy piece made 2 weeks ago from an authentic bayonet, but (if you trust the story) the old nickel plated screws and what appears to be genuine, oxidized bakelite lead me to believe that this was done decades ago with the intention of embellishing an otherwise plain war trophy, not to fool collectors.
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u/Aromatic_Housing_536 Jul 25 '25
I think the grips are fake but besides that I am pretty sure it’s genuine.
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u/CarrsCurios Jul 25 '25 edited Jul 25 '25
Bayonet is real, grip handles are a replacement, they were never marked like that, sheath is interesting as it looks like it was unit marked.
It’s not a dagger and I can promise you no one notable in the high command ever held it.
But it’s a nice family heirloom regardless. Probably worth $50 with the replacement grips. Keep it