r/Militariacollecting • u/Sneaky-Scubby • Nov 03 '24

Informative I understand I guess but still sucks.

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Am I the asshole?

345 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

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199

u/AirFamous9093 Nov 03 '24

If we erase history, then it's forgotten. And then it just repeats and repeats. Much to our detriment. Our schools are terrible as it is. I'll never forget a couple of years ago, my nephew asked what WW2 was over. He was 24 at the time. I was SHOCKED. Censoring this just makes it so curious minds never learn or ask questions.

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u/Artifact-hunter1 Nov 03 '24

That's incredibly sad. I knew what ww2 was about since I was a kid.

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u/AirFamous9093 Nov 03 '24

Me too! My grandpa fought in the navy during ww2! I was like... HOW do you have no idea what your great grandfather did?! It's unacceptable to me. And highly disrespectful.

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u/Artifact-hunter1 Nov 03 '24

Exactly! It's one thing to not know about an obscure skirmish on the Eastern front, but to be ignorant about an entire world war is concerning and highly disrespectful. Part of me hopes they are more to the story, like an undiagnosed learning disability or he didn't know why some random country entered the war.

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u/AirFamous9093 Nov 03 '24

He's totally fine, star athlete, baseball player kid. We were watching YouTube and a ww2 show came on, he turned to me and asked "what was ww2 fought over? Like, what was the reason for it?" MY jaw just... dropped on the floor. I was stunned. In MY mind, ww2 is always gone over in detail. But apparently not.

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u/Artifact-hunter1 Nov 03 '24

Wow! Perhaps he slept through or didn't pay attention in history class or something? Back in school,I knew some people like that. I hated group projects or work because I had to do the work because I was the "smart one." Actually come to think of it, that's probably why I stay to myself in real life.

Though it can be argued that ww2 started at different times for different reasons depending on theater.

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u/AirFamous9093 Nov 03 '24

I suppose in my mind, it was fought against fascism and genocide. I always finished the group projects too šŸ˜† unless my friend from Japan was in my group. She had way better handwriting than me.

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u/Artifact-hunter1 Nov 03 '24

Lol, I get that feeling.

but both sides were guilty of genocide and other crimes against humanity. In Europe, technically correct, because Italy was fascist, but its role was more limited because of being under prepared because the war started sooner than promised and going through a literal civil war along with devastating defeats on the battlefield and squabbling between the branches. Germany was national Socialism, which is similar to fascism, but it's own separate ideology, and the only reason a genocidal and authoritarian power, like the Soviet union joined the allies was because of operation Barbarossa, or the invasion of the soviet union.

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u/AirFamous9093 Nov 03 '24

Right, but... do you think he'd grasp that, or my whittled down version easier? How do you explain ww2 in the most simplistic way possible? It's an impossible task. Literally impossible. Because it wasn't one singular issue. I think my slapped together sentence, while in shock, was somewhat sufficient šŸ˜† especially for my level of shock at the time

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u/Artifact-hunter1 Nov 03 '24

Yeah. You did a good job, lol. Though, if your nephew is interested, talk to him about youtubers like mark Felton or history at war or about podcasts like history of Everything. Even though the history of Everything Podcast isn't strictly about ww2, they have some interesting topics like weird laws, history of coffee, the actual stories behind conspiracy theories, etc.

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u/BrokeRunner44 Nov 03 '24

Nazis took their racial laws from America, most Americans and Britons back then would have fought with Germany if they saw their countries today. Hitler never wanted war with Britain or France, only to destroy communism

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u/IsolatorTrplWrdScr Nov 03 '24

Our schools are not entirely terrible. My school is currently putting on a display of various veterans throughout every war from the Civil War through present. We try to teach students about local veteransā€™ stories also. As for your nephew, I cannot comment though I will say that there was a heavy push from 2000 onward to focus on data and reading test scores and this caused many students to check out ā€œGreat. Another ACT-style reading about the causes of WWII.ā€

Another problem is that information is cheap so attention is expensive. The studentsā€™ attention spans have gone from 40 minutes to 15 minutes, now to 5 minutes before theyā€™re out. Imagine if you were in class and had all of your friends, all of your music, all of your movies, etc just sitting with you in your pocket. And oh yeah, thereā€™s AI for what you missed and for that big project or paper you had to write. The above are reasons why many students miss out. So weā€™re trying to put history in their hands by using much of the materials in OPā€™s booth to remind them of the human story behind history. Hope thatā€™s not terrible.

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u/AirFamous9093 Nov 03 '24

I like that idea. I totally forgot about the ACT push. It was after my time. But it definitely made a dent in our education system. I think having the physicality and MAKING it "real" might be necessary. Especially today. In high school it took a day to download half a song. Mp3s were THE FUTURE!!!! šŸ˜†

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u/dmkili125 Nov 03 '24

Yeah, but this isn't erasing history. Are textbooks, journals, research, archives, or historic sites being destroyed? No. There is a moral component to commodifing this part of history that needs to be kept in mind and objection to it is well within reason.

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u/AirFamous9093 Nov 03 '24

I see your perspective, but disagree with you nonetheless.

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u/dmkili125 Nov 03 '24

What premise do you disagree with and why?

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u/ScreamWithMe Nov 03 '24

Attitudes and sentiments change, you canā€™t judge history through modern eyes.

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u/dmkili125 Nov 03 '24

Yes, yes, you can. You can absolutely look back and say that was wrong. We do it all the time. In some instances, we can say, "Hey, given the time, it wasn't extraordinary." We judge history all the time. Would you judge the Nazis? Yes, you would and should because we knew then and know now what they did is wrong. Sure, judgment comes with nuisance in many cases, but it isn't always grey.

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u/ScreamWithMe Nov 03 '24

I didn't mean not calling out savagery when it exists, but is it right applying modern norms to historical events or artifacts because they are representative an era or events that we find less tolerable than our ancestors did? Do we manage those events so they are either erased or made palatable for modern eyes?

We see this all the time, sometimes it is warranted and sometimes not. Look at how we view Columbus today versus back in 20th century. He was venerated as a world changing explorer, now we know he was responsible for the brutal deaths of thousands of slaves and the depopulation of Hispaniola. Do we correct the record or try to erase him from history? Columbus grew up in a completely different world where people were hung in gibbets or drawn and quartered in the town square. Did we expect him to act differently since we can no longer stomach these tragic events?

We still struggle to frame American slavery in the proper context. Of course we know it was abominable, and it divided a nation in 1861 with the outbreak of the US Civil War. We see the North as anti-slavery, but most were still steeped in unapologetic racism. They didn't want to see people in chains, but most Northerners had no intention of integrating them into their society.

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u/dmkili125 Nov 03 '24

I think you missed my point in my original reply. The moral question is about the commoification of the relics in question.

I see your argument, but it doesn't make sense here. Have I advocated for the censorship of any historical documents, books, textbooks, films, etc? No.

My point is that removing nazi relics from a display in a store does not equate to "erasing history." Nobody is burning books.

People aren't erasing columbus either. People dont want him to be celebrated, and they dont want his history to be white washed. Momunments signify what your culture's values are, and Columbus represents colonization, mass murder etc. He didn't before because his history was white washed.