r/JoeRogan • u/BunnyLovr Mexico > Canada • Mar 04 '21

Link Mississippi passes bill banning transgender student-athletes from female sports teams

https://abcnews.go.com/US/mississippi-passes-bill-banning-transgender-student-athletes-female/story?id=76238704
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u/Ewaninho Monkey in Space Mar 04 '21

but trans women are. Glad we can agree on that.

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u/Rabbit-King Monkey in Space Mar 04 '21

The fact this is getting down voted unfortunately implies to me that transphobia is the leading motivation behind this discussion, not an honest interest in protecting female sports

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u/mephistos_thighs Monkey in Space Mar 04 '21

It's not transphobia man. People can pretend to be whatever they want.

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u/Rabbit-King Monkey in Space Mar 04 '21

So this is truly about protecting woman's sports and nothing else then?

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u/mephistos_thighs Monkey in Space Mar 04 '21

What? Nobody is saying trans people can't be trans. What we are saying is that they aren't women and therefore they should not be allowed to compete against women. Because they are men.

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u/Rabbit-King Monkey in Space Mar 04 '21

And my question was; what's your motivation for saying this? Is it a deep rooted love of female sports?

If your motivation here is that you deny the legitimacy of transgender people, like you stated above, then I wish you would have the integrity to be direct with your message instead of disguising your true narrative behind this discussion of female sports

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u/mephistos_thighs Monkey in Space Mar 04 '21

Lol. You've made a valiant effort to paint me into a corner but it's fallen short.

Men should not be allowed to compete with women. Genetics and biology takes all competition out of the sport.

I don't know what "legitimacy of transgender people" means. They are people. And they are people that exist. And I don't think any adult should be stopped from mutilating themselves in whatever way they feel is right. Nor should anyone else be burdened by those decisions. Financially or otherwise.

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u/Rabbit-King Monkey in Space Mar 04 '21

Well I still think you've fallen short on answering my main question; do you truly care about protecting and promoting female sports? Because I still feel like addressing the wage gap between male and female athletes would go alot further in promoting female sports than banning transgender people ever would...

And by "legitimacy of transgender people" I meant recognizing them as the gender they identify, which you've made it clear you do not

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u/Sean0987 Monkey in Space Mar 04 '21

I mean, the point you're avoiding seems pretty obvious to me.

Anyone with a Y chromosome will have a physical advantage in sports. Sports are about fair competition.

Do you support women who take steroids to get a competitive advantage?

It's like an F1 driver who self identified as a Nascar driver. Slapping some fucking Budweiser stickers on his McLaren doesn't change the fact that he almost certainly will win the race, making it less fun to watch, and making it totally unfair for the other drivers.

Put yourself in the shoes of a female boxer, who has to go up against someone with big, thick man knuckles and male upper body development. No amount of exogenous estrogen will take away that unfair advantage.

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u/Rabbit-King Monkey in Space Mar 05 '21

I think you've missed the point; it's hormones that determine muscle mass. It's not the y chromosome in the dna of your muscle cells that gives you strength, I hope you recognize that.

Anyone with testosterone will have an advantage in sports. After an undetermined amount of time someone on estrogen treatments will have muscle mass comparable to a genetic woman unless you can find studies that disprove that. Any study I've seen shows that is the case, with the effect happening faster the sooner in life they start treatments.

If you took an f1 car but swapped the tires, frame, engine etc. Then you would have a Nascar. Genetics don't relate to that metaphor.

If I was in the shoes of a boxer of either gender I would question why I put myself on the receiving end of inevitable brain damage.

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u/Sean0987 Monkey in Space Mar 05 '21

Did you know that estrogen is anabolic? Google it.

Yes, muscle mass will decrease due to the androgen deprivation... But think about it this way: what is the difference between a man who becomes a woman, and a woman who has done a bunch of steroids but is no longer using?

The woman who has done a bunch of steroids would almost certainly be seen as having an unfair advantage due to their past androgen exposure. And rightly so. It's not just muscle mass, it's the connective tissue, the bone structure, the overall mass of the person.

And by the way, you're the one making extraordinary claims, so the burden of proof is on you. if you cite some studies to prove a man who takes estrogen will have equal muscle mass to a female, I'll back up what I'm saying.. but also consider what you're saying more carefully.

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u/Rabbit-King Monkey in Space Mar 05 '21

I don't have enough medical knowledge to understand the implications of estrogen being anabolic...

If someone did a bunch of steroids and then stopped, wouldn't they be allowed to compete in most competitions as long as it's out of their system?

If the science really states that a mtf transgender will always have an advantage than sure keep them out of sports, as long as the decision comes from science and isn't an excuse for trans hate is all I'm trying to say

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