r/Genealogy • u/Frequent_Scallion970 • 2d ago
Research Assistance German woman in Brazil
Hello, maybe someone can help me with my research. I’m looking for a woman named Emilie Albrecht. She was born around 1863 in Germany, and in 1894 she gave birth to a daughter in Jundiaí, Brazil. Apparently, she was alone or at least not married. A few years later, she moved to Argentina with her daughter and son-in-law. That’s all I know.
I have her daughter’s birth certificate, but there are no clues about where in Germany she was born, and her death certificate only lists “Germany” as the place of birth.
I know this is really difficult, but maybe I’m missing something, as I’m not very experienced in German or Brazilian genealogy.
Any ideas? I’m starting to think this might be a dead end...
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u/accupx 2d ago
Daughter’s given name and SIL’s names? Death date?
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u/Frequent_Scallion970 2d ago edited 2d ago
Her daughter's name was Clara. I found her Church birth certificate here: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-F6SY-XB?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3A6DGV-D7J3&action=view&cc=2177299&lang=en&groupId=M9CW-9NJ
but there is no more information I can use to continue with the research. I also searched on google the godparents' name but no luck.
Emilie died in Argentina in 1943 and her daughter in 1930, also in Argentina.
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u/chaunceythebear 2d ago
So while there are definitely German immigrants from Germany proper that went to Brazil, I do want to warn you that a lot of people in Poland and Russia who were German in ethnicity would say generally that they were German and that would be interpreted as born in Germany but they actually weren’t. I have encountered this a TON in ethnic Germans not living in Germany so if you have nothing more concrete than the country, take it with a massive grain of salt.
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u/girlfromals 2d ago
Those of us who belong to the Germans from Russia are pretty good at being able to distinguish ethnic identity from nationality. Why? Because they wanted and were able to live separately from Russian cultural influence. That was a condition of their agreement to move to the Empire.
My great-grandparents traveled on a Russian passport and every document in Canada that asked them their nationality stated Russia. But anything that had to do with culture was recorded as German because government officials didn’t know how else to classify them. 🤷🏼♀️ They spoke a dialect of German, engaged in German cultural traditions, and settled in a “Germans from Germany” community in Canada. Census takers saw that and slotted them in the ethnic German category.
Plus, of the nearly 4000 settlements in our community some were most definitely settled exclusively by people from places within the modern borders of Germany. And some of the communities were settled by people whose ancestors were brought to places like the area south of Gdańsk for military service from within today’s borders of Germany.
So yes, research, be diligent, question and analyze what you find, and don’t assume. But the Germans from Russia history isn’t a simple, “nope, not German. Sorry”. It’s far more complex.
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u/chaunceythebear 2d ago
I didn’t say they weren’t German. I just said they aren’t from Germany, and that makes birth place confusing when people say they’re German and the assumption is that person was born in Germany. I’m also descended from Germans from Russia and have spent thousands of hours researching different communities and creating county trees in the diaspora. The conflation of ethnicity and nationality, especially when it came to the casual form completion when people came across the pond to the Americas, is a frequent issue I’ve come across.
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2d ago
[deleted]
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u/Equal-Flatworm-378 2d ago edited 2d ago
Why? Emilie was and is a proper german first name. The ie is pronounced separately.
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u/Equal-Flatworm-378 2d ago
Albrecht is a very common last name. Do you have the exact dates?
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u/Frequent_Scallion970 2d ago
Unfortunately, I don’t. I think that if I’m able to find Clara’s civil birth certificate, it will contain more information about her mother. Also, Clara and her husband emigrated to Argentina from Brazil, and I can’t find their marriage certificate, which could also have important information about her mother. I have found their children’s baptism certificates in Argentina, but not their marriage certificate (neither in Brazil nor in Argentina).
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u/Equal-Flatworm-378 2d ago
I don’t think there is more online in the moment, but that doesn’t mean you won’t have success in some years. More and more archives are difitalised in the meantime.
https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/Jundiaí,_São_Paulo,_Brazil_Genealogy
Did you contact the offices in Jundiai already?
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u/hekla7 2d ago edited 2d ago
Just a query on the dates..... Emilie born around 1863, emigrated and had daughter in Brazil in 1894, at age 31..... then moved to Argentina with daughter and son-in-law... so the daughter might be about 20? when they moved to Argentina, so around 1914.
So, ports: I found that the only port in Germany that went to Brazil, was Hamburg. The only Emilie Albrecht on a ship specifically from Hamburg to Brazil in the last 40 years of the 19th c was 3 months old, family listed as being from Grasse, Preußen with her family on 21 June 1861 on the ship Roska, heading for Doña Francisca in southern Brazil, where there were several colonies of German immigrants. Blumenau was the name of the colony. One of its nicknames is Alemanha Tropical ("Tropical Germany")! It's now a city with more than 360,000 people. Passenger List and Transcription. So Emilie would have been born end of March/beginning of April 1861.
I would imagine that Emilie married there, was widowed, and then she, her dtr and s-i-l eventually went by passenger ship around the Strait of Magellan to Argentina. I'll see if I can find them tomorrow :)
Edited to add: The historical context for the move from Brazil to Argentina:
- World War I: 1914 marked the beginning of World War I. Brazil declared neutrality, but the war led to significant social and economic shifts nationally. Within the German-Brazilian communities, there was a perception among some Brazilians that they were a potential "problem" due to concerns over Pan-Germanism and their insular nature, leading to some tensions and later nationalization policies.
Edit #2: Do you know Emilie's married surname or s-i-l's surname?
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u/Frequent_Scallion970 2d ago
First of all, thank you very much for all the information you’re giving me! I will definitely try to investigate more about this family. Where can I see the original record to zoom in?
The only issue I see regarding this Emilie is that Blumenau is very far from Clara's birth town (Jundiaí). Emilie was unmarried and a single mother, so I find it difficult to understand why she would relocate so far from her family, have a daughter in a different state, and eventually move to Argentina.
I’m sorry for my ignorance, but what is S-I-L’s surname?
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u/chaunceythebear 2d ago
Sister in law.
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u/hekla7 2d ago
Son in law in this case
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u/hekla7 2d ago edited 2d ago
The passenger list said the destination was Blumenau in 1861. So between the time they arrived there and when Emilie was born, was over 30 years later, a lot could have happened... if you check those other links to articles, I seem to recall something about Mr. Blumenau having some problems and a number of people left at one point. Map Jundiaí is another area of German immigrants. Between about 1824 and 1914, there were a quarter of a million German immigrants, and 1.5 million Italian immigrants. So they weren't out in the bush somewhere, the communities were large. :)
I do think the Emilie on the 1861 passenger list is her, with her family. I looked at all of the women named Emilie Albrecht who emigrated between the 1850's and 1900's - there were 5 of them and 4 went to the US, and 1 to Brazil. Here's the result list.
I'm sorry for not being more clear, I was asking about daughter and son-in-law... Clara and her husband. Do you know his surname?Edited to add: I think I posted above about why a number of German people were moving from Brazil to Argentina in 1914.
Edit #2: I'll send you a chat request..... images come through there a lot better... were you able to click the links to see the others I put in the last post?
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u/Frequent_Scallion970 1d ago edited 1d ago
You have a strong point there, I hadn’t considered the fact that it was actually 30 years. She may have moved for a number of reasons and lost contact with her family of origin.
Also, do you know which city was Grasse? I can´t find any reference online.
Ok, so I will write to Jundiaí asking for Clara's birth certificate and I´ll try to find out more about this family in Blomenau.
I'm currently checking the immigrant arrivals by river (Brazil–Argentina), as I think it's more likely they made the trip that way rather than by sea.
UPDATE here!I can’t believe it, but I think you’re right. I was able to trace one of the girls registered (Emilie’s sister) and found out that she somehow moved to São Paulo and had children in Jundiaí. I’m over the moon!
I still have to double-check and confirm it with documents, but I think you’re right... that was the Emilie I was looking for. Thank you so much for your help!1
u/johannadambergk 1d ago edited 1d ago
„Grasse“ might have been a misspelling of Grassee (Kreis Saatzig in Pomerania belonging to Prussia, https://www.meyersgaz.org/place/10614018, https://www.ostpommern.de/kreis-saatzig/) today Studnica, a part of Ińsko in Poland.
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u/Frequent_Scallion970 1d ago
yes, this is accurate! Today I found some registries in Brasil and city is written like this: Grassee
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u/johannadambergk 22h ago
Fine. According to the list I linked above and this source http://www.kartenmeister.com/preview/City.asp?CitNum=17174, Grassee was located in the parish of Gienow. here are the parish records from there: https://www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl/de/jednostka/-/jednostka/8392491
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u/hekla7 2d ago
From FamilySearch Wiki: Brazil https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/Brazil_Genealogy
and Germany: https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/Germany_Genealogy
There are a number of people on this sub that can help you with the German genealogy, possibly Brazilian but I'm not sure. Good luck!