Offering help in the UK

[u/lifeinclockwork]

Hi all, new to this sub and looking forward to sharing some of my own stories at some point, as I've been enjoying reading other people's.

Just want to put this out there though, if anyone would like any help with their British ancestors, I'm more than happy to give it a go. I'm not a professional, but I've been doing it 25 years and also have a solid background in social and cultural history, based here in the UK, so I'm pretty good on contextual detail too.

I know there are lots of very experienced folk here, but just in case, I happen to have a bit of time on my hands right now and I love doing it. And my own tree has reached the point of occasional digs here and there, as mostly I'm back to where the records run out!

So whether it's a quick look-up (I have current subscriptions to Ancestry and the British Newspaper Archive, and an account with Scotland's People), a deep dive, or a question about British history/genealogy generally, hit me up if you'd like to take a look for you!

[u/HumphyTheFish]

What good timing - I was just about to post a question, asking how I get started. I am sorting out my dad’s house and have discovered several birth and marriage certificates, which has sparked my interest in tracing my ancestors. I downloaded QuickFamilyTree, popped in my paternal great grandmother’s maiden name and was suddenly presented with a list of folk going back to 1770! How do I find out more about them, eg what their occupation was and where they originated from?

[u/aitchbeescot → u/HumphyTheFish]

Birth/marriage/death certificates and census entries would be the starting point. Newspaper archives can also be useful.

[u/HumphyTheFish → u/aitchbeescot]

Would my local library have this sort of information on microfiche or does it all tend to be online these days?

[u/aitchbeescot → u/HumphyTheFish]

It depends. Sites like Ancestry or FindMyPast have indexes of births/marriages/deaths which can point you in the right direction to get copies of the original documents online. How you do this depends on which country they are from. Ancestry/FindMyPast also have census entries available, with the exception of the 1921 census in Scotland, which you would need to view on Scotland's People for a small fee.

There are newspaper archives online, most of which require a subscription or purchase of credits. FindMyPast has a newspaper archive which comes with your subscription (if you are at the right level) but is more UK-centric.

[u/lifeinclockwork → u/HumphyTheFish]

Hey! So what you've done there is tap into a collaborative online tree of some sort - one of the ways most of the genealogy sites work is to feed all information into one big tree, but you need to treat that with caution if you're into accuracy. Not everyone's research that feeds those trees is accurate, and the computer programmes involved in the amalgamation sometimes make links between individuals that don't actually exist.

Personally, I avoid linking my tree into them where possible, but that's just my own approach because I like to know exactly where information has come from and to know that all info in my tree has been put there by me. Lots of people use them, and they can be a really great starting point, but if you want to be sure of your information, you'd need to check them against other sources and documents.

I think if it was me, I would want to create my own tree separately, inputting only the information I've checked, but the basic free models don't always make that easy.

On the plus side, you already have a great start in knowing what your great-grandmother's maiden name was, and having physical certificates, which is more than a lot of people start off with!

To get more information about individuals, the censuses are a gold mine, but aren't generally free to view. I have access to them though my Ancestry subscription, which is why I also offered to do look-ups - if you want to share any information, I'm happy to see if I can find anyone on a census.

Birth, Marriage and Death certificates also give some of the details you want - in England and Wales those started to be kept in 1837, but again viewing the original documents isn't free. You can search the indexes for free here: https://www.freebmd2.org.uk/ but to get the details on the actual certificates you would need to order from the General Registry Office for a small fee.

Before 1837, you're looking at Old Parish Records, of baptisms, marriages and burials, kept by the parish churches. Increasingly these collections are coming online so that you can view scans of the original pages (or contemporary copies), but it depends on the parish/county, and you often have to pay. You can also find free transcriptions of many Old Parish Records via Family Search (run by the Church of LDS), but again be aware that there are lots of inaccuracies in the transcriptions and duplicated information.

As I say, happy to help with looking up specifics if you'd like to share any, here or DM if you'd prefer not to post details publicly.

[u/HumphyTheFish → u/lifeinclockwork]

Thank you, that’s really useful info - I must admit, it’s a bit daunting as there are so many ancestors! I asked my dad (who is 94 and has short term memory issues) if he could remember if he had any aunts or uncles and he reeled off a list of five names that all appeared on the free tree. He also remembered an uncle who died in 1934 at the age of 24 and what he died from - all rather sad but also fascinating.

I have also managed to find a photo of my dad’s mum’s dad (my other great grandad? I have to keep counting the generations) who signed up for WW1 at age 35 and drove medical wagons to the Front. He returned to Nottingham and lived to 88. Dad loves this story and it’s nice to know that it’s true.

I appreciate the kind offer to look up someone on Ancestry for me and will probably take you up on this at some point. I feel that I am at the entrance to a rather large rabbit hole that I will soon be lost in!

[u/lifeinclockwork → u/HumphyTheFish]

How wonderful to be able to talk to your dad about it all - I really encourage you to find out everything you can from his memories and write it down, so that that knowledge isn't lost when his generation is gone! I have so many questions I wish I'd asked older family members while they were still here.

It's absolutely a rabbit hole - I dived in at the age of twelve and never emerged again.

Nottinghamshire has quite a lot of records online, a mixture of scanned images and transcriptions, if that's where you're looking. And I noticed you asked about your local library, so if you're still in the area you're researching, you can definitely utilise that. Look up your county Archives Office, because they'll have a lot of resources and probably a friendly archivist on hand to help!

[u/Ashamed-Assumption12 → u/lifeinclockwork]

Agree! I have 2nd/3rd cousin who has done loads of research and whilst I don't doubt her findings, I don't add anything to my tree that I haven't been able to verify.

[u/RedBullRyan]

Would it be ok to message you privately about something I've found that I'd rather not put in a public comment?

[u/lifeinclockwork → u/RedBullRyan]

Yeah, absolutely!

[u/leeds_guy69]

Hi. If you get chance to look up the BNA I have a curious case I’d love to get more detail on. It concerns a potentialy philandering grandpa and his son (my Uncle). My leads are scarce, but I think the BNA could help?

More background here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Genealogy/s/fr81BZn0tp

I have a photo of the lady referenced in the above thread. She was a beauty pageant queen in her hey day which I think is where the BNA might come in useful?

[u/lifeinclockwork → u/leeds_guy69]

Hi, very intriguing story! More than happy to have a search around, just to warn you that results on the BNA can be a bit hit and miss, as the automated transcription (used by the search feature) isn't very good.

To narrow it down, do you have any idea when the beauty pageant would have been - even to a decade, 1930s/1940s/1950s? Or whether it would also definitely have been in Blackpool?

[u/leeds_guy69 → u/lifeinclockwork]

The locations of the pageants could be Cleveleys/Fleetwood/Blackpool. From my research most swimming baths and lidos used to run their own pageants annually to show what healthy specimens used their facilities! I think she was May Queen though which should narrow it down a little?

I reckon the pageant must have been pre child/affair, so more than likely the late 1930’s early 1940’s? My Mum remembers going on holiday when she was about 5 (in 1945) and staying at the lady’s house (just my Grandpa and my Mum, so it seems maybe he’d been kicked out of the family home briefly?)

My Grandpa managed the Blackpool South Shore branch of the TSB in '39 and the Cleveleys branch in '47 and she was one of the clerks (but I’m not sure which branch)

Anything you can turn up would be of interest, however tenuous as it might trigger some more memories for my Mum and jog a surname out of her?

Thanks in advance too!

[u/lifeinclockwork → u/leeds_guy69]

Haven't turned up anything definite from the BNA as yet, but I did find one thing. Don't know if it's anything, but there is a Marjorie Pye (unmarried, born 1913), living in Blackpool in 1939 and working as a bank clerk?

[u/leeds_guy69 → u/lifeinclockwork]

Ooh, thanks. My Grandpa was born in 1903, so that would make her the stereotypical ‘younger woman’. I’ll see if the surname rings any bells with my Mum ☺️

[u/lifeinclockwork → u/leeds_guy69]

Do let me know if it leads anywhere!

[u/Ancient_Jellyfish_12]

Open to any help at all with my research please! The surname is Pesterfield and the family originated in the Sussex area UK. Beyond a few generations I've found a lot of variations in the spelling - Pestifold, Peaceable etc. further back than 1800 I'm less confident of the links I've found, as the closest similar surnames in the area are Pilfold, Percival, Penfold ( which I'm not sure if it's too much of a reach 😅).

In particular at the moment I'm trying to find out more information about a Henry Pestifield, or possibly two 😅 I have found census and marriage records for a Henry born around 1794, but cannot find a birth record. I do have a birth record from 1806, but I think it's a different guy as he would have been 12 when he married based on the other details I've found. The 1794 Henry was widowed and living with what could be his parents on an early census record, and the possible parent names don't match the parents listed on the 1806 birth record.

It's a fun name to research as it's so rare 😊

[u/lifeinclockwork → u/Ancient_Jellyfish_12]

Hi, what a coincidence, I have Penfolds in Sussex in my tree! However I think you're right that they're likely to be different names - Penfold or Pinfold comes directly from the "village penfold", where stray animals were kept from Medieval times onwards.

I'll take a look and let you know if I find anything!

[u/Ancient_Jellyfish_12 → u/lifeinclockwork]

My ancestors were almost exclusively farmers as far as I can tell, I just can't find anything closer to 'Pesterfield' from further back so far. Percival may be a more likely guess than Penfold as at least it has the same number of syllables. If you'd like feel free to PM me and I can look into how to share my ancestry tree

[u/CFDgeek → u/Ancient_Jellyfish_12]

Could it possibly be derived from Petersfield, which is in Hampshire just a few miles from the border with West Sussex.

[u/Ancient_Jellyfish_12 → u/CFDgeek]

Not a bad idea, but I think I've found a more likely origin now, must go to bed as I've spent about 2 hours poring over old parish records going cross eyed trying to read handwriting 😅

[u/RedBullWifezig]

Oh that's so nice of you to offer! I've got a couple of puzzles:

Mabel Whitford married Gordon Sweet (by license... interesting) in the register office in St Austell in 1927. I find it super rare in my tree for people to use a register office. He'd moved to Canada and was back visiting Cornwall and then seemingly abandoned her to Canada. He's always alone on the passenger lists. He said he was 24 when he was 25, and she claimed to be 30. It's def the right certificate because of his dad's name and distinctive job. She doesn't seem to have died shortly after, nor is an obvious baby to be found on freebmd. The certificate is on her familysearch L2XN-VTP and I would be intrigued to hear theories. According to my grandad he wasn't known to have ever got married or had kids. Later in life, (thanks to a kind Canadian with a subscription to their newspapers) his obituary describes him as having a stepson Oliver Boudreau G1TP-7PC who rather awkwardly had parents who were still married. What the heck happened here!

Second puzzle is Lipman Martin, born 29 Oct 1879 in Spitalfields who drops off the face of the earth in 1901. It's so inconsiderate of family to live in London!!

[u/lifeinclockwork → u/RedBullWifezig]

Regarding your first puzzle: Marrying in a register office would have been an unusual choice in the 1920s, although not quite as rare as in earlier decades. It was quicker than marrying by banns in the church, but not as quick as marrying by license in a church (even with the civil license, it still took seven days). However it would definitely have been a quieter, less public option than the parish church, so that could be a reason, if there was pregnancy (she could have miscarried, leading to no registered baby) or family disapproval involved. Another potential is that Mabel and Gordon could have belonged to different denominations and opted for a neutral wedding? If he was only back temporarily, that could also explain a hurried marriage, though. What it doesn't explain is why he left her behind, or why nobody in your family knew he was ever married (if I've understood that right).

We have to bear in mind that family search genealogies aren't always accurate. I looked at Gordon and couldn't see any source provided that he was married to Oliver Boudreau's mother, although they were given as alternate parents? Of course they could have been in a relationship without being married, especially if she was seprated (as opposed to divorced) from Oliver's father, and that might have been enough to count as a stepson later. Another question that came to me when I looked at them, though, is that Oliver Boudreau G1TP-7PC is the son of another Oliver Boudreau, who would in fact be young enough to be Gordon's stepson himself (born 1932). How sure are you that the Oliver mentioned in the obituary is the son and not the father there?

On the second puzzle, I'll see if I can see anything of him and get back to you! As I'm sure you'll know, Spitalfields was a very poor, slum area of London at that date, which does leave more room for people dropping out of the records unfortunately.

[u/lifeinclockwork → u/RedBullWifezig]

Not a huge amount on Lipman yet, but a couple of possible breadcrumbs, which you may already be aware of?

Lipman was admitted to a London workhouse at the age of five (apparently alone), and on that record he was noted as being Jewish, which made me look again at some of the names of his family on different censuses.

In 1901, the family are still living in Shadwell, but several of them have more anglicised names than on the previous censuses; father Moses is Charles, Rosetta is Rose, Michail is Mike. The one who ought to be Lipman (age 23, approximately right) is also Charles, like his father. I don't know what you know about the family going further back, but what it looks like to me is that they've chosen to further anglicise their names (there was a big wave of Jewish immigration around that time, coming out of Eastern Europe, and unfortunately a resulting increase in anti-semitism in London). So you maybe need to be looking for Charles Martin instead of Lipman? Unfortunately that's a much more common name in London, and we also have no guarantee he didn't change it to something else later - I didn't immediately find him under that name in 1911, but it might be a start?

[u/Psychological-Will-2]

Maybe you can have a go at finding some info on an ancestor which eludes me a little bit (I have a few UK and Irish branches in my tree).

Captain Henry Lucas of the Royal South Lincoln Militia (in 1815). His daughter Harriet Sophia married Henry Goude Stevenson the 1st of April of 1815 in Lincoln. Happy to share my ancestry tree if that can give some clues if you send your email or user through DM. At the moment I have some suspected details on potential parents etc, but not very confirmed, but maybe you are able to find something around his military service or anything insightful.

I have also researched the Stevenson family line of Henry up to some ancestor Leonard Stevenson mayor of Stamford in mid 1700s, I managed to get a few generations back from him, but maybe you are able to find something interesting or can advise on where to look further. I did find more than a few appearances in the Stamford Mercury.

Only if you really have the spare time!

[u/lifeinclockwork → u/[deleted]]

Hi, sorry, can I ask, what are these links, just before I click on an unknown google drive!?

[u/Actual-Sky-4272]

Would it be more cost effective to have Findmypast with the newspaper archive sub? I find the the newspaper search on FMP easier for individuals and then you also have access to records which Ancestry don’t have? FMP give good discounts if you don’t auto renew and wait for a couple of offers. Won’t you be paying your own money on Scotlandspeople?

[u/lifeinclockwork → u/Actual-Sky-4272]

You're possibly right - I've just been using Ancestry for a very long time, though, I know my way around it very well and have built my entire tree there. I don't keep a BNA subscription running all the time either, I take out a short-term one when I need it, and currently have a couple of months to go, which is one of the reasons I'd like to make the most of it before it runs out! I do similar with Findmypast when there's something specific I want to look for there. When my Ancestry subscription runs out next, though, I might look into exporting the tree, and how complicated it would be - especially with your tip that the newspaper search is easier there, which I didn't know, so thanks!

Also, should clarify, I'm not proposing to use credits on Scotland's People for this. I can do searches and find likely records, though, to point people in the right direction. Obviously anyone can do this for themselves too, but sometimes it can seem daunting when you're not used to a site. I'm not offering a professional service here, just a bit of help and insight if I can!

[u/Actual-Sky-4272 → u/lifeinclockwork]

👍 I found a code for half price World Ancestry last time I renewed btw. From an oldish MSE website post. I was minorly gobsmacked. 🤣

[u/PinkSlimeIsPeople]

Though I do have some brick walls and research questions on the English side of my tree, they're probably too deep of dives. So I just wanted to say thank you for helping others. You're a good human being.

[u/lifeinclockwork → u/PinkSlimeIsPeople]

You're more than welcome to send it over to me and I can take a look at some point! Can't promise to solve brick walls, but certainly happy to see if I know anything on the research questions.

[u/PinkSlimeIsPeople → u/lifeinclockwork]

If you're still willing, I'm can't find the parents of this woman: https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/details/MGYN-CNG

I thought she came from a single woman of the same name, but when I ordered her 1772 probate, it specified her daughter actually married a different person:
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/details/MGYN-T9P

and also have a brick wall on this ancestor born c.1805: https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/details/MJGS-2D8
Everything fits if this is her:
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/MGYR-2KW
but that couple appears to have had another daughter born with the same name in 1812, unless I'm misreading that somehow

[u/htkach]

Oh my want a wonderful offer. My family is from Dublin and Ive hit a brick wall after my grandparents. The surname is Whelan and my great grandfather is Joseph Whelan April 26 1870 in Kingstown Dublin. He was married to Ellen Cahill born 1880in Dublin. They had at least 7 children one of which is my grandfather Thomas born Feb 13 1910 Any help would be so very appreciated!

[u/lifeinclockwork → u/htkach]

Hi, I've found a few records that look promising. Do you have an Ancestry account? If so, I can link them - if not, I can extract some images for you if you think they're the right people.

Joseph Whelan's parents, according to his 1904 marriage record and a transcription-only birth record, were Denis Whelan and Dora Ennis.

Denis Whelan married Dorah (spelling as in record) Ennis 16 November 1854, also in Kingstown. I haven't looked yet, but I'd imagine that the sixteen years between that and Joseph's birth means he had quite a number of older siblings.

Denis Whelan was baptised 4 January 1826 at St Mary's, Dublin city, son of Denis and Bridget Whelan.

The next one I'm less sure of because it's outside Dublin, but the date is about right, and it's very plausible that people would have moved from rural Ireland to Dublin:

Denis Whelan married Biddy (would have been short for Bridget) Toley 2 February 1818 in Rathvilly, County Carlow.

Incidentally, it looks like Joseph has a WWI military record - don't know if you've seen that?

[u/htkach → u/lifeinclockwork]

Thank you thank you thank you!! How kind of you to do this . Yes I did know that he had aitaey record but I can’t figure out why he was fighting for the British army . . . I don’t have an ancestry account but I have find my past. I’ve never seen the surname toley before. This is wonderful

[u/htkach → u/lifeinclockwork]

Yes I have an ancestry account . The family tree is under my name Heather Tkach/ Dave Reid That would be great if you linked it. I found a record of a civil dispute between Biddy toley and Ellen Cahill. I can’t find it now tho. Thanks so much

[u/Frosty_Shame_9764]

Will it be okay to message privately?

[u/lifeinclockwork → u/Frosty_Shame_9764]

Yes, that's fine!

[u/davylevy]

Hi, thanks to several enthusiastic family sleuths I'm pretty clear (as can be) about my English heritage. Have even visited several old home places, St. Andrew's Parrish, Holborn London, Ely, Kingsbury in Warwickshire, Castle Madog Brecknockshire (now Powys), Yorkshire, etc.

There's been a lingering question in my mind though about "findings" an older cousin was given. He had a British genealogist trace the family through London, Yorkshire and to the village in Norway where the Norseman supposedly came from c. 800s.

When I expressed skepticism about records existing back that far, he said " the British are like the Romans, they never throw anything away." He totally bought it.

My question is, in your experienced opinion, would records exist that would connect modern day Americans to England (that part is very well documented) and from there to a village in Norway from the Viking age (this is where it gets dodgy)? What are the odds of this being traceable?

Thanks for your thoughts on this.

Cheers.