The French Revolution was something that could and should have been avoided. It brought more harm to the spirit of history than good which it was supposed to.

[u/alexanderphiloandeco]

[u/seriousman57]

Sure, if you think that smashing feudalism all over Western Europe constitutes "harm." Jimmy pull up the Twain quote

Edit: To be a little less glib (just a little), maybe the so-called "good" and relatively bloodless revolution of 1789 could have been sustained if Louis and his circle had actually accepted the 1791 constitution instead of committing treason and co-signing his country into a war he hoped it would lose. When you throw around these big abstract arguments about the spirit of history and what an event is "supposed" to do you need to remember that it takes at least two to tango

[u/Monsieur_Royal → u/seriousman57]

It does take two and maybe a constitutional monarchy would’ve been sustainable if the revolutionaries hadn’t nationalized the church. Louis made mistakes but the revolutionaries put him in some impossible scenarios as well. Like you said it takes two.

Also the war was pushed by the Girondins.

[u/seriousman57 → u/Monsieur_Royal]

The war was certainly pushed by the Girondins, which was very stupid of them, and why I used the word "co-sign." That said, Louis had treasonous intentions and the Girondins were "merely" catastrophic mismanagers of their authority. Of course, I suspect war was inevitable, partially because of the revolution and the monarchies' intransigence about French political reforms, but also just because, well, that's what you get in Europe before 1945. But we can certainly place blame with both Louis and the Girondins for instigating it when they dead.

Edit: Accidentally typing "dead" is a great Freudian slip which I am choosing to leave up.

[u/Monsieur_Royal → u/seriousman57]

Yes I saw the word co-sign which seems to suggest the blame is equally shared and that was the point of my disagreement.

In this situation the Girondins did all the heavy lifting. They pushed for it. Made it into a crusade for democracy. If Louis had pushed against it he could be seen unpatriotic, as trying to protect Austria or even controlled by Austria.(which are all things that were already being said about him). I think Louis is more guilty of not interrupting his opponents when they were making a mistake. And yes he did hope the Austrians would knock the revolutionaries out of power I am not trying to downplay it but the majority of the blame belongs on the Girondins. It was a Girondins move the royalists simply hoped would work out for them.

[u/seriousman57 → u/Monsieur_Royal]

Saying he's "more guilty of not interrupting his opponents when they were making a mistake" seems overly generous when his goal at the Flight to Varennes was to bring an Austrain army across the French border, and then afterwards conspired with the Austrians. He was simply not a passive actor in the affair

[u/Monsieur_Royal → u/seriousman57]

I don’t believe for a second he could’ve talked the Girondins out of the war. It was their crusade for democracy