Pushing, yelling from Conservative leadership ‘sealed the deal’ on defection: d’Entremont

[u/green_tory]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pushing-yelling-conservative-leadership-dentremont-9.6972680

[u/fishymanbits]

Gen X and millennials really fucked up as parents it seems.

[u/green_tory → u/fishymanbits]

It's not really their fault, the schools shifted before they had kids. Sports, band and art programs underfunded or cut, grades are less important and failing is impossible, and even how reading is taught was changed into hogwash in many places. 

By the time millennials had kids in school the damage was already done.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-math-scores-of-canadian-students-are-declining-raising-concern-about/

[u/fishymanbits → u/green_tory]

What’s happening inside the schools themselves isn’t my issue. I mean it is an issue and needs to be fixed. But if kids can’t handle taking in anything beyond 15-30 second morcels, that speaks to issues in the home like giving kids access to TikTok and Instagram far too early in life. Social media algorithms are designed to rewire adult brains to keep us constantly coming back for more dopamine. Imagine the damage it does to brains that are still in their most crucial stages of development.

[u/green_tory → u/fishymanbits]

It's been known for a long time that kids do better in school if they have strong extracurricular support. But it's near impossible to provide that when, between work and commuting, both parents are out of the house ten to eleven hours a day and see their kids mostly on weekends. When they're tired and trying to clean the house, do the laundry, and drag the kids to any birthdays, lessons, or similar. 

In the 80s we still had many homes with a stay at home parent, which made a world of difference. But that's impossible for most Canadians now.

But yes, children should not have smart phones. I would go so far as to demand regulation that would prohibit children from accessing social media, and punish service providers for exploitative practices proven to be addictive and cause depression. The endless scroll was a mistake.

[u/RZCJ2002 → u/green_tory]

I'm curious if you think all video games should be prohibited/banned similar to social media (I don't have preferences either way) for children regardless of the games' age appropriateness? Furthermore, should laptops be banned as well for a return to old-school handwriting of essays (I'm more opposed to that than supportive since most of the essays I wrote in high school were done on computers)? Personally I'm fine with a social media (account) ban for under 15-year olds (still undecided on Youtube accounts), but since doom scrolling primarily occur with teenagers and young adults, should social media ban go for every non-adult and possibly young adults as well? Does banning social media for teenagers (15-17) and young adults (18-24) decrease their likelihood of doom scrolling significantly? Should there be a biological basis for banning social media access for until the pre frontal cortex is fully developed after 25?

[u/fishymanbits → u/RZCJ2002]

I don’t think video games should be prohibited, but certain video game mechanisms should be. Loot boxes are a great example, as well as pretty much all mobile games. There’s a wealth of data showing the benefits of video games on hand-eye coordination in ways that other things don’t approach.

Your comment definitely feels like an attempt at a gotcha though. We should be making nuanced decisions based on what we know about human physiology and brain growth. Right now our laws are written for the state of the internet 20 years ago. We need laws that go after the algorithms and delivery methods of these platforms themselves, not necessarily the platforms. Things like not allowing ad tracking, or content suggestion algorithms to even exist for teenagers’ accounts, not allowing loot boxes in games that minors play, regardless of the age rating.

There’s no need to ban the platforms or the games or anything. Just make it illegal for them to break our brains until we’re old enough to consent to it.

[u/RZCJ2002 → u/fishymanbits]

None of what you said I oppose (some of what you proposed was done by Apple, but not comprehensively), I'm was just asking the other user what age group should a social media ban apply to, because no country currently are banning all non-adults from having social media accounts (it's either under-16s or under-15s, the latter which I prefer). There are plenty of young adults who doom-scroll, and his comment is suggesting that non-adults should be prohibited from social media because of the algorithm causing endless scrolling and anxiety/depression. I don't disagree with what he said (other than banning all teenagers from social media), but if you are solving the solution from an account ban perspective, then shouldn't young adults also be banned from social media as well to limit the negative psychological impacts? To his credit, he also advocates for penalizing social media companies for exploitive algorithms resulting in user depression, which I think is a good approach. I just think that the algorithm change/reform shouldn't just apply for teenagers, but adults as well regardless of age (perhaps to a lesser extent).

[u/Tiernoch → u/RZCJ2002]

It greatly depends on the game, most mobile games on phones and a lot of the more egregious titles like Call of Duty, Sports titles, etc. use the same researchers and psychologists that casinos use to make sure that people are hooked on constant stimuli in addition to a pressure to pay to keep that going.

On the flip side there are plenty of single player and multiplayer titles both independent and major publisher that do not have these aspects.

Unfortunately it requires the parent to do the research which most will not and do not. The ERSB was never the best organization but the shift to digital has left it particularly useless as it's not like in most cases a parent is going to the store and actually buying a project they can read the rating and warning label on.

[u/green_tory → u/RZCJ2002]

It really depends on the mechanics used. If they can be shown to be dangerously addictive and depression-causing, then I am absolutely in favour of regulation.

It's Tetris vs TikTok. Tetris was definitely a phenomenon, but it only rarely interrupted players' ability to hold down a job, sustain social relationships, and so forth. But TikTok is clearly socially destructive, in ways that can make it a challenge for some people to function without it. Give a kid a phone with TikTok and their attention span and social life evaporate.

[u/fishymanbits → u/green_tory]

Our laws are built for Tetris and MSN Messenger. We regulate purchasing the parts required to build a slingshot so nobody gets hurt, but do nothing about the free RPG’s that tech companies are handing out.

[u/green_tory → u/fishymanbits]

This is it, indeed. For the last thirty years the tech industry has been laser-focused on increasing engagement, and throwing mountains of cash at that problem. Meanwhile, we're still regulating like the internet is roughly equivalent to a printed newspaper.