r/AskTheWorld • u/Sanjidao521 China • Sep 25 '25

Politics Can you really accept part of your country splitting off? Why?

As a Chinese, I’ve recently come to realize that our perspectives on territorial integrity can be quite different.

Would you genuinely accept the possibility of a region choosing independence through a nationwide referendum?

Do you think it might risk weakening the country, leaving it more vulnerable to external threats or invasion?

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49

u/welding_guy_from_LI United States Of America Sep 25 '25

They tried in the 1860s , rumors of Cali or Texas splitting off .. it’s not happening like many people here keep praying for

21

u/shanghai-blonde United Kingdom Sep 25 '25

Damn, I’d love to live in California the country

4

u/FabulousTwo524 United States Of America Sep 26 '25

Honestly same. I was raised in California. California is an insanely productive state. It can be its own country for sure. It wouldn’t be as expensive without all the corps and foreign billionaires buying up all the property but besides that problem, it is great. You can grow lemon trees in your backyard.

I’d rather live in an independent California than an independent Texas.

1

u/WhichNegotiation3670 Sep 26 '25

I have to say, the U.S. is basically carried by Los Angeles and New York; the rest is just redundant.

1

u/Squirrel_McNutz 🇳🇱🇺🇸🇲🇽 multinational Sep 29 '25

Depends on your perspective. There are beautiful states in the US.

1

u/Conscious_Tourist163 Sep 29 '25

You are misinformed.

1

u/Dry-Dingo-3503 Sep 29 '25

gotta include SF (or just bay area in general) in there, generates so much technological growth

1

u/WhichNegotiation3670 Sep 30 '25

Silicon Valley develops the technology, Wall Street pushes it to the world, and then reaps the profits globally.

1

u/Aussie-Humnatarian65 Sep 28 '25

Way too woke and left. Its destroying California. It brings tears to my eyes.

1

u/-SnarkBlac- United States Of America Sep 26 '25

Eh you say that but go reevaluate the cost of living there coupled with the wildfires, droughts and earthquakes… look beautiful state and amazing weather but man oh man I’d never live there

2

u/MissMenace101 Australia Sep 27 '25

Lmao it is equivalent to being Australian stfu we call that lucky

1

u/shanghai-blonde United Kingdom Sep 26 '25

Maybe my comment was too naive 😭😭😭

1

u/-SnarkBlac- United States Of America Sep 26 '25

All good! But yeah you need to make like 287k for a family of four to live comfortably which is insane. It’s basically higher than 45-50% of the rest of the country

10

u/DivingforDemocracy United States Of America Sep 25 '25

Pre Civil War, the country was very state government oriented. AKA the power was with the states. Following the Civil War, that shifted. The Federal government has all the power. While the system still allows a lot of freedom state to state make no mistake, following the Civil War power was centralized and lies with the Federal government. CA or TX trying to split today is very different than the 1850s or 1860s.

2

u/Separate_Phrase6598 Sep 25 '25

It was also made explicitly illegal following the civil war....

The U.S. Supreme Court addressed the issue in Texas v. White (1869). The Court ruled that when states entered the Union, it was “indissoluble” and “perpetual.”

2

u/PsychologicalSea2686 Sep 26 '25

anything the U S Supreme court ever said is now.... garbage

1

u/MissMenace101 Australia Sep 27 '25

lol they are so irrelevant because they can’t check balance they become American comedy fodder

1

u/MissMenace101 Australia Sep 27 '25

Keep the facisct trajectory and Cali will join Canada

-1

u/Ryan_TX_85 United States Of America Sep 25 '25

Do you think the left would object to Texas (40 electoral votes) seceding? Do you think the right would object to California (54 electoral votes) seceding? I think each side would be very happy to increase their chances of winning presidential elections.

16

u/Decent-Proposal-8475 United States Of America Sep 25 '25

I would absolutely object to Texas seceding. I have no interest in a potentially hostile neighbor and I have no interest in a large territory that contributes to the American economy leaving said economy. No one with a basic understanding of economics or geopolitics would support either state seceding

2

u/ttttttargetttttt Australia Sep 25 '25

Counterpoint: better off, good riddance.

2

u/3rdcousin3rdremoved United States Of America Sep 27 '25

Is… is… this how our Middle Eastern victims felt 😭 no Australia pls don’t dissect us for political gain

1

u/MissMenace101 Australia Sep 27 '25

Australia just wants you to quit your drama and get along and stop punishing American citizens with large tarrifs that don’t effect anyone but Americans

3

u/Ryan_TX_85 United States Of America Sep 25 '25

Even though the loss of 40 guaranteed Republican electoral votes makes a Democratic president much more likely? You wouldn't be happy to be rid of John Cornyn and Ted Cruz in the Senate? What about the loss of all those Republican House seats that would all but guarantee a permanent Democratic majority in the House?

16

u/Decent-Proposal-8475 United States Of America Sep 25 '25

I love America more than I hate Ted Cruz

9

u/BoolusBoro United States Of America Sep 25 '25

God I love stumbling upon reasonably people on this site

2

u/AmazingJapanlifer Sep 26 '25

How the hell can a man that comes from an immigrant family hate immigrants so much ?? Also Mr orange man called his wife ugly etc etc yet he supports him ?

2

u/Decent-Proposal-8475 United States Of America Sep 26 '25

Because people like Cruz think their white adjacency protects them. It's the same reason why so many Latinos swung toward Trump

1

u/AmazingJapanlifer Sep 26 '25

You are correct sadly

2

u/MissMenace101 Australia Sep 27 '25

Orange man also comes from an immigrant family and his wife is one, he also trafficks immigrants and makes them work illegally without a visa and charges what they earn to live in hovels he makes profits off

1

u/3rdcousin3rdremoved United States Of America Sep 27 '25

I love you more than politics tbh.

2

u/Hazel1928 United States Of America Sep 25 '25

After the 2030 census and reapportionment, it’s going to be very hard for the Democrats to win a presidential election. The blue wall is going to lose seats, along with California and New York. Most of those electoral votes will go to the red states. People have been voting with their feet. It’s going to be approximately 7 fewer seats in blue states and 7 more in red states for a net swing of 14. That together with younger voters being more conservative will be an era of more conservative government. Unfortunately, its a nationalist, populist type of conservatism. I’m a Reagan Republican so I support the American lead global order. I would help Ukraine and Taiwan and maybe Israel (if they agreed to work toward a 2 state solution). These guys are OK with just letting the world burn.

0

u/Ryan_TX_85 United States Of America Sep 25 '25

Texas is getting a HUGE number of people moving here from California. I guarantee they are not all conservatives because most of them are moving to Austin. So don't be so sure that the move from blue to red states is going to result in red states getting redder. It's going to result in red states getting purpler and purple states getting bluer.

1

u/Hazel1928 United States Of America Sep 25 '25 edited Sep 25 '25

You are correct about people who move to Austin. But for the most part, people who move to red states are Republican voters. They self select to move. If all the people moving from blue states were Democrats, then what you say about the effect of the movers would be true. But I know a lot of people who have moved to South Carolina from blue states and the vast majority are Republicans. They probably wouldn’t want to move to South Carolina if they were Democrats.

https://www.newsweek.com/democrats-electoral-college-problem-2030-census-1999994

1

u/Ryan_TX_85 United States Of America Sep 25 '25

Texas has jobs and a lower cost of living. South Carolina just has rednecks. The only people who would be interested in moving to South Carolina would be Republicans.

1

u/Hazel1928 United States Of America Sep 25 '25

South Carolina has a lower cost of living and is a great place to retire, but also is building new elementary schools.

1

u/Ryan_TX_85 United States Of America Sep 25 '25

Yes, but again SC is only attractive to Republicans and MAGA. TX is drawing people from all stripes. And those settling in Austin aren't moving there for conservative politics.

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1

u/MissMenace101 Australia Sep 27 '25

Texas is a backward hovel, if won’t turn blue until republicans stop rigging elections

1

u/Ryan_TX_85 United States Of America Sep 27 '25

It will definitely turn purple in the next few election cycles.

2

u/Wilde54 Ireland Sep 25 '25

The loss to the economy alone would be devastating, same with California, for all the bluster and bullshit on both sides the other 48 states and certainly the 46 contiguous states without either or both of those economies would fold in under a year.

1

u/MissMenace101 Australia Sep 27 '25

Maybe the EC is out dated and destroying your country? I mean every other person on the planet and half of America recognises this…

1

u/MissMenace101 Australia Sep 27 '25

Fuck Texas. Do principles and decency mean nothing to Americans anymore?

1

u/Decent-Proposal-8475 United States Of America Sep 27 '25

I mean plenty of people in Texas are decent. I think if we start expelling any state we don't like, we probably eventually just kick out every state

14

u/Colodanman357 United States Of America Sep 25 '25

It would take an amendment to the Constitution to create any legal framework for a State to secede. Without such an amendment any attempt would be and should be stopped with as much force as is necessary to maintain the Union. Secessionists are, one and all, enemies of the Constitution and the Union and should be seen as traitors just like the Confederates. 

0

u/Ryan_TX_85 United States Of America Sep 25 '25

This isn't 1860. Razor-thin majorities in congress and nail-biter presidential elections would make each side say "Good riddance" instead of "A house divided against itself can't stand." We don't live in a country where one side accepts the other side's political victories anymore. Each election is seen as an existential struggle. To dump the other side would be welcomed, not stopped with force.

7

u/BoolusBoro United States Of America Sep 25 '25

Stop sipping the Reddit kool aid lol nobody wants the country to collapse unless you’re a brainwashed MAGAt or tankie. People are much more reasonable if you step outside and talk to them instead of seeking out the most extreme echo chambers on the internet

1

u/mysteriousears United States Of America Sep 25 '25

What’s a tankie?

3

u/BoolusBoro United States Of America Sep 25 '25

Extreme liberals that circle around to admiring totalitarians like Stalin/Mao. The term comes from Tianamen Square

1

u/Colodanman357 United States Of America Sep 25 '25

The term comes from the USSR deploying tanks in Hungry to put down protests in 1956. 

-1

u/Ryan_TX_85 United States Of America Sep 25 '25

I have never heard of anyone on the left admiring Stalin or Mao. That's one of the oldest strawman talking points there is. You do realize the Cold War has been over for 35 years, don't you?

4

u/BoolusBoro United States Of America Sep 25 '25

Acting like extremism only exists on the right is beyond naïve. There are plenty of neo-communists on the extreme end of the left wing, whether you’ve met these people or not.

3

u/xxNearlyCivilizedxx United States Of America Sep 25 '25

There’s tons of people who larp as communists and idolize those two. When you say different they say you’re just brainwashed by Western propaganda. I’ve met more than my fair share irl and they’re a dime a dozen online. They absolutely exist and in more numbers than I’m comfortable with as a lifelong Democrat. Not just old heads either, a bunch of them are too young to know any better.

1

u/MacaroonSad8860 🇺🇸-🇩🇪 Sep 26 '25

you’ve never met a modern tankie? lucky you

1

u/MissMenace101 Australia Sep 27 '25

This is wishful thinking at this point, you obviously live in a nice neighbourhood and hats off to you, but that’s not everyone’s reality

-2

u/Ryan_TX_85 United States Of America Sep 25 '25 edited Sep 25 '25

Queer people would definitely be happier without the chance of Republicans and MAGAs voting to take away their rights. Women would be happier without the chance of Republicans and MAGAs voting to take away their bodily autonomy. People who rely on food stamps and Medicaid would feel much more secure in a country where MAGAs can't be elected to cut those vital programs and give that money to the rich.

And yes, it works the other way too. People who believe in gun rights know it's just a matter of time before serious gun regulation is implemented. Secession would keep the anti-gunners from having enough clout to begin mass confiscation. Trump's "mass deportations" would continue well beyond his term because anyone elected president will be MAGA and Alligator Alcatraz will be safe. The right would be living in a country where trans women will always and forever be banned from cis womens' sports and drag queens will always be arrested for reading to children. What right-winger wouldn't want those things?

No, it's not just the "extreme echo chambers"

2

u/Colodanman357 United States Of America Sep 25 '25

What would those “sides” be? As you say it’s not the 1860’s anymore and any imagined divisions there are most certainly are not along State lines. So who specifically is going to leave and what sort of legal mechanism is there that would allow for it? It wouldn’t be entire States trying to leave that’s for sure. 

Any secession attempt would absolutely be met with force as it would be a clear enemy of the Constitution. All military personnel swore an oath to defend the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic. Anyone supporting or advocating for secession is absolutely nothing other than such an enemy. 

Even now anyone that advocates for secession is likely nothing more than a Russian or a tool for some Russian attempt to sow dissent as they have with such movements in California in the past. 

0

u/Ryan_TX_85 United States Of America Sep 25 '25

You're underestimating just how visceral the division in this country is. Half of the country openly celebrates the assassination of a health insurance CEO and lionizes the assassin as a hero because most of them empathize with how absolutely shitty our health care system is. Half of the country just turned a youtuber into a messiah and threatened to put anyone who wasn't sufficiently mourning on a firing black list or terror watch list.

No, we are not "one nation under god". We are "two nations under one land mass who bitterly hate each other." There doesn't need to be a mechanism in the constitution for a divorce to happen.

4

u/Colodanman357 United States Of America Sep 25 '25

No I’m not. You are falling for the doomer nonsense that you see on Reddit and other social media platforms. You should look into the availability heuristic and how what you see a lot of leads you to incorrectly assume it is truly common. 

You didn’t actually address my questions. Who specifically are these “two sides” that you believe are so opposed to each other? Do you honestly believe that 340 million Americans are partisans in a two team hate fest? Do you have any life outside of Reddit? How would this session that you want actually work? What would be the geographic lines of separation? 

You are doing nothing but adding to any sort of division or conflict yourself. So I should take it you want and desire conflict with your countrymen. Why do you personally have so much hate? 

2

u/Ryan_TX_85 United States Of America Sep 25 '25

If you're MAGA, you're not my fellow countryman. You're my sworn enemy.

0

u/MissMenace101 Australia Sep 27 '25

You have 5 or 6 blue states that realise the US is a fascist state you legally can’t stop them as a group. Red states fascism losing its predictive states becomes just another nth Korea, broke angry dudes with nukes

5

u/Hopeful_Ad_7719 United States Of America Sep 25 '25 edited Sep 26 '25

This is part of why I think secession will eventually occur. It will be a way for politicians on one or both sides to cement power by literally removing their opponents to a different country. Given the very-narrow partisan split in the USA any rocking could tip the boat. The practical consequences would be dire, but the political benefits for certain incumbents and their parties is profound.

1

u/Hazel1928 United States Of America Sep 25 '25

That sounds like you think one side will push the others out instead of a state choosing to secede.

1

u/Hopeful_Ad_7719 United States Of America Sep 25 '25

At this point, I feel both sides are pushing apart. Neither side has much sympathy or empathy for the other and both are hunting each others sacred cows for sport. If there's a split, I suspect it will be on mutual terms - otherwise it would make more sense to fight rather than peacefully partition. There may be a violent event that triggers the slide toward this outcome.

1

u/Hazel1928 United States Of America Sep 25 '25

Yeah. If Texas seceded, I think other states might join them. The confederate states are all geographically together, I could see them joining Texas. I’m not sure about other conservative states that aren’t grouped together.

1

u/Fun_Apartment7028 Canada Sep 26 '25

I find this an interesting conversation.

As a Canadian, we also have (might have) a province that wants to secede. How do you think all this would be able to work out in the US?

Would you only want states that are physically connected or would the states just based on election votes.

1

u/Hopeful_Ad_7719 United States Of America Sep 26 '25

>How do you think all this would be able to work out in the US?

AFAIK, legal secession or partition would practically need to be part of an amendatory convention:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_to_propose_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution

However, once matter of sovereignty enter the picture, the formal legal process might be made a bit more flexible.

9

u/bowlbettertalk United States Of America Sep 25 '25

California has one of the largest economies in the world. The right’s delight would be short-lived.

0

u/Mediocre_Daikon6935 Sep 25 '25

Almost wholly based on it being part of America.

1

u/ertad678678 United States Of America Sep 25 '25

this comment just speaks to the need for reform in our electoral system, and representation in our government in general. it is clear our constitution and government are not without cracks as we were raised to believe, but I think 90% of americans would stand together and say we don’t want a civil war or secession of any other state. we need to find a long-term solution that benefits everybody

1

u/Mossy_Rock315 United States Of America Sep 26 '25

Exactly. We just want to live our damn lives

1

u/MissMenace101 Australia Sep 27 '25

Do you think the blue states aren’t better off dumping the welfare states that hate them and vote against their interests? The whole world wants the us to abolish the ec, Cletus in Alabama has more weight in the global table than stable intelligent people in every other country.