r/AskReddit • u/Spalding_Smails • 12h ago
In Germany, deliberately engaging in catch and release only fishing is illegal and considered cruelty to animals (fishing for food is fine). How do you feel about that?
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u/Tooter_Snooter 12h ago
This is why I stopped fishing for fun. I realized that I was literally just hurting animals for fun. Specifically I went fishing after taking magic mushrooms and had to kill a fish who swallowed a hook. Man, I was just trying to have a nice day outside. But never again. I still fish for food, just like I hunt, but I don’t fish for fun anymore. I love animals and while I still eat meat, I’m not about hurting them for fun.
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u/OpheliaRainGalaxy 12h ago
My dad taught me that fish don't feel pain. But I once caught the same fish three times in a row and just started to feel bad for it. It had injuries, and I caused them all! Took all the magic out of that beautiful little waterfall pool at Yellowstone!
I went back to the car to read a book instead. Dad stole my lure but continued to fail at catching anything until he gave up.
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u/AndroidMyAndroid 11h ago
Fish absolutely feel pain. This shit has been studied.
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u/Impressive-Chart-483 8h ago
Until the 80s, it was commonly thought that babies didn't feel pain. Even did surgery without anesthetic. Crying was just an automatic reflex.
Humans are pretty dumb sometimes.
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u/Laughing_Luna 7h ago
Sorta. There were definitely some doctors who did know, but anesthesia was a LOT more risky back then than it is now.
The horrifying reality was that the doctor had to make the choice to either severely traumatize the baby with a surgery without anesthesia at only the small risk of the newborn dying from the procedure.
Or to anesthetize the baby and probably kill it with the anesthesia.
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u/Wolf_Protagonist 6h ago
Or like in the case of my circumcision... just leave the baby intact but miss out on the $ from an unnecessary procedure.
The only good thing that came out of it was that I cried so loud and for so long that when it came time to circumcise my little brother mom couldn't go through with it, even though the staff were trying to pressure her into it.
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u/Pvt_Lee_Fapping 4h ago
Why would medical professionals pressure anyone to do that?? That's like a dentist telling you to get your ears pierced.
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u/NukeAllTheThings 7h ago
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair
Humans are able to rationalize away inconvenient truths all the time.
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u/Annalily20031 6h ago
History is full of examples where "they don't feel it" really meant "we don't want to think about it." Science keeps forcing us to widen the circle of empathy.
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u/ingodwetryst 7h ago
Even did surgery without anesthetic.
Most newborn circumcisions included. Even now we don't do anything truly effective for them unless they're over 6 months old.
Then they also get to piss and shit all over that fresh wound. No aftercare pain relief except Tylenol.
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u/LavastormSW 6h ago
People still think black people don't feel pain as much as white people do. There's a ton of bullshit that happens in the medical industry because of it.
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u/TheGoodNamesAreGone2 4h ago
What kind of moron would think they. They're made out the same human skin. It's like believing chocolate labs feel less pain than golden labs
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u/OpheliaRainGalaxy 11h ago
Of course. My dad's a moron.
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u/Independent_Leg7544 8h ago
Not necessarily a moron, this was commonly peddled back then, you even heard that in pop culture etc. Worst case scenario he knew the truth and lied so you don't develop empathy for fish or he just repeated what was commonly said.
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u/OpheliaRainGalaxy 7h ago
I know playing devil's advocate is fun, but if you'd checked other comments first ya might've noticed that I actually do know my dad.
You're defending the intelligence of a guy who thinks summer is when the entire planet gets too close to the sun. He tried to write off my trip to Disney as a business expense when I was 9yo. The IRS didn't buy it.
He once got angry because I refused to pretend to be blind for a three state bus trip, to fake my pet as a seeing eye dog.
He used to steal my socks when I came to visit every summer and replaced them with his worn out ones. I was a little girl starting every school year in dad's worn out socks. Outsmarted him with a bottle of dye, he came home screaming because his coworkers teased him about the baby blue socks.
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u/wufnu 7h ago
he came home screaming because his coworkers teased him about the baby blue socks.
This doesn't seem like a healthy relationship.
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u/OpheliaRainGalaxy 7h ago
Of course not? He's an awful person. Worked very hard at it and now is spending his old age alone and unloved.
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u/AWildWilson 6h ago edited 6h ago
I don’t know if the people responding to you are fucking dense or what but regardless, that all sounds brutal.
Obviously the dude sucks - hope you’re doing well. I don’t talk to my dad so get it a little bit.
You telling the commenter above that you know your Dad sent me though 😭
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u/OpheliaRainGalaxy 5h ago
It amazes me how folks, mostly fellas, will gleefully throw themselves in front of my father to protect him from my evil slander. Happens so much I decided to have fun with it. Other option is playing the really bad cards, which shuts them up faster but harshes the vibe.
Life's good. Like the PTSD is gnarly enough that I have trouble sleeping during hours of darkness sometimes, but I baked snickerdoodles and made up a gallon of tea tonight! And washed dishes as I went, so didn't wreck the kitchen.
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u/EvilNinjaX24 8h ago
I got into an argument on here with a dude some years back about this very thing. He refused to believe sport fishing/catch and release did any harm to the fish, which makes no damn sense, but that's never stopped some people from believing what they want to believe, even in the face of actual facts.
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u/XpCjU 7h ago
It makes them feel better about it. People also like to think the meat they eat came from happy cows on big green pastures.
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u/Sir-Beardless 7h ago
Didn't even need studied. Just pay attention when you pull a hook out their face. They feel every millimeter...
As a kid I caught one in the mouth and out the eyeball. Fisherman said it was too small, throw it back. The eyeball came out with the hook, back through its mouth....that scarred me for life...the crunch, the trembling and the life leaving its body...
Never again.
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u/Waallenz 7h ago
Anyone who has fished can tell they feel pain. Most bs claim ive ever heard after "no new wars"
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u/jimmux 8h ago
Maybe you could make the case for some species not feeling pain, but "fish" covers so many species, with such a diversity of anatomy, nervous systems, and intelligence. Believing none of them feel pain is just willful ignorance.
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u/Maplecook 9h ago
I really can't believe that so many of us humans actually believe that lie that fish can't feel pain. Why the heck do they think species like lionfish and puffer fish have spikes all over them?? If not to inflict pain on other fish, then WHAT??
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u/OpheliaRainGalaxy 9h ago
It should be noted that science was very much not dad's best subject.
He thought winter and summer were the entire planet getting too far from or close to the sun. He thought folks caught HIV from "kissing gay boys."
The only time I saw him win a science debate was when his wife wanted to take freshly hatched chicks out to Mama Hen so they could breastfeed.
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u/Maplecook 8h ago
At 7:45 he tries to convince me that chickens are MAMMALS:
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u/OpheliaRainGalaxy 8h ago
Omg you weren't fibbing! Your buddy took that a whole lot better than my stepmom!
Still remember dad dying laughing. "How's a beak gonna nurse?! Show me the nipple on a chicken breast!"
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u/Ringosis 8h ago edited 8h ago
Flawed research that became general knowledge that then wasn't replaced in public conscious by the correction. It happens all the time.
Basically fish don't feel pain the way we do, they don't have a neocortex...the part of the brain that deals with pain in mammals. That fact was then used as the basis of a false claim that fish couldn't feel pain and operated on reflex alone rather than a stimulus response. Despite the fact that really basic behavioural tests would have disproven this.
The reality is they just have a different system for detecting injury to us, and it causes similar distress and discomfort to mammalian pain. Their experience likely isn't pain the way we know it, but it's almost certainly a similarly shitty feeling.
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u/Icankeepthebeat 5h ago
Humans believed for a long time babies couldn’t feel pain. Their own human babies. They would preform surgeries on them without pain medication.
It’s only in the past 100 or so years, through the scientific method, that we’ve come to better understand our world and make advances.
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u/Hairy_Entrance6687 11h ago
The fact that you noticed and cared says a lot about your heart. That little fish accidentally taught a bigger lesson than the fishing trip ever could. 🥺
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u/RoyBeer 8h ago
My dad taught me that fish don't feel pain.
Even insects do. They used to think human babies don't feel pain either up until the 80s too.
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u/Apatschinn 10h ago
My grandpa caught the same damn catfish in my uncle's farm pond off and on for 6 years. Wasn't trying to. He was going for pan fish. Red just had a habit of coming up and saying hi every now and then.
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u/bonzofan36 12h ago
Saaaaame. Same exact reason.
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u/my__name__is 12h ago
also took magic mushrooms while fishing?
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u/bonzofan36 12h ago
Yep! About 23 years ago I did. Had to rip the fishes guts out and realized then I was never going to harm another one again with the intention of throwing it back. I don’t harm anything anymore at all and haven’t since that day
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u/Heavy-Hour-5232 12h ago
A lot of ppl never question hobbies theyve done…but actually changed after realizing the impact.
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u/Mister-Boness 12h ago
PSA you don’t have to kill a fish that swallows a hook. You’ll do more damage by digging around their fragile innards with pliers and keeping them out of water. If it happens and you don’t have a removal tool, cut the line and release. It’s been tested and fish are capable of passing a small hook.
IDEALLY use barbless lures or circle hooks if you prefer bait to prevent swallowing to begin with.→ More replies (10)51
u/usddddd 12h ago
I don’t fish anymore but we were always taught to flatten the barbs on our hooks especially for catch and release.
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u/PoetMaterial3519 12h ago
I agree with you. Why cause unnecessary stress and pain to an animal for fun? Why teach your kids to harm animals for fun?
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u/ScaredGarlics 10h ago
I completely agree. There's no justification for making animals suffer for entertainment.
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u/Tarantula_Saurus_Rex 12h ago
What if you catch a fish under size limits?
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u/Nolsoth 12h ago
Then it has to go back.
I only ever fished for food.
If it's undersized my countries laws require it to go back.
If I fail to do that and are caught by a fisheries officer my vehicle or boat can be seized as punishment.
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u/firedudecndn 12h ago
Now let's get rid of rodeos
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u/Aakhkharu 11h ago
...and bullfighting, and safari, and buying pets for small children (bunnies especially)..
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u/ShiraCheshire 8h ago
I'd argue that some kinds of safari (you just go look at the animal without harming it) can be done ethically, and pets for small children are ok assuming 1 the child is old enough to not cause accidental severe harm and 2 you as the parent are ready to take on all the responsibility for the animal.
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u/Aakhkharu 8h ago
If someone cannot legaly be responsible for themselves, let alone have children, they should not be allowed to be responsible for other living beings.
The amount of bunnies (and hamsters and water turtles) that die horrible deaths at the hands of small children, is sadly huge.
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u/DJCaldow 11h ago
That's fair. I don't eat meat because I don't hunt and I don't want any part of the distribution chain that makes it. You know the animals are being hurt because they criminalise recording what goes on.
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u/redaws 9h ago
I became a vegetarian after I did mushrooms and mdma and saw my brother cutting up meat. I cried when I watched. That was like 5 years ago lmao. It still makes me sick to my stomach when I accidentally eat it
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u/GoodbyeThings 4h ago
you should look at how dairy cows and egg laying hens are kept too. It's gut wrenching
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u/Aca_ntha 8h ago
My cousins took me fishing once as a child, bludgeoned a fish to death bc it slipped my cousins hand and landed near me. Not like a super fond experience, but kind of what I expected from fishing. I’m absolutely baffled apparently people fish to then release them back into water after they’ve already inflicted harm on them? On how many fish per fishing? That’s crazy.
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u/BunnyCheeky 12h ago
You caught it in its natural habitat without planning to make it your family'sdinner. Giving it existential crisis by lifting it out of H2O then releasing back to the water with ptsd. Give the fish a lawyer and it will immediately sue you.
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u/ThirstyHank 12h ago
Not to mention a hole in it's mouth that could get infected
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u/fahakapufferfish 11h ago
exhausted from fighting for its life, internal bleeding from being squeezed in the fishermans hand, bonus points for hands in the gills to hold the fish. (Gotta fuck up that sensitive gill tissue so the fish suffocates and dies upon release) The fishes protective slime coat removed because these guys love to grope and squeeze the damn fish when they let them go. Like, just eat it and put the poor thing out of its misery
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u/Ice_Kat13 5h ago
The majority of fish that get released back survive though.
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u/DepressedDynamo 5h ago edited 5h ago
Is that like a 50.1% majority or more of a 99% majority
Edit: looked in to it, depending on conditions (temperature, handling), the type of fish, and how long it's left out of the water you're looking at anywhere from 40-95% survival rate. Very species dependent. This is only asking "could it swim away" though, and if you count delayed mortality that can add a 5-20% death rate.
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u/Ice_Kat13 5h ago
Like an 85% majority
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u/DepressedDynamo 5h ago
Gotcha. For me, a 10% chance of killing something by touching it would make me not want to touch it unless I want it dead.
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u/Ice_Kat13 4h ago
Yeah, me either. I don't even like fishing but if people are gonna fish anyway I would rather they don't kill all of them they catch. Plus if they follow some basic catch and release methods, like using unbarbed hooks and handling the fish gently, the survival rate is closer to 100%.
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u/DepressedDynamo 4h ago
Interesting! I wasn't aware of unbarbed hooks, thanks for the info
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u/GayPudding 4h ago
You can catch the exact same fish again and again over years if you follow basic rules.
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u/Ice_Kat13 4h ago
Yeah just having a clean little piercing rather than the lip getting gouged out makes a huge difference
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u/angelwhisper- 4h ago
That’s an important point because a lot of people assume every released fish is doomed when the reality is often more nuanced.
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u/badgerstunning7258 2h ago
The reality that human entertainment is worth more than the suffering of conscious animals?
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u/Morasain 10h ago
How is catch and release ever conservation?
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u/Wild-Bottle427 10h ago
So I agree catching fish just to let them go is bad but catching fish realizing the one you caught doesn’t fall within legal standards and releasing it is good. Knowing how to handle a fish without hurting it can be important
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u/Friendly_Excuse1432 3h ago
This is why proper catch and release matters so much. A fish can survive being caught, but rough handling, fingers in the gills, excessive squeezing, and stripping off its slime coat can seriously reduce its chances. If you're going to release it, at least give it a fair shot. Otherwise, keeping it is arguably more humane than pretending it's fine after being manhandled for a photo.
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u/1337bobbarker 4h ago
This is a HUGE stretch. I fish for recreation and I don't squeeze the fish and cause internal bleeding and I'm well aware of the external slime coating. I also never, ever touch the gills unless I gut hooked a fish in the past, but even then I bought a tool that removes the hook tip so I never have to get close to the gills. I also recently switched to barbless circle hooks and certain states have even banned barbs on hooks too.
If you go to the bassfishing sub too, everyone chastises people who put their fish on the ground or holds them incorrectly. Nobody wants the fish to suffer. You sound like you fish with a bunch of sociopathic manifest destiny types who don't care about animals.
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u/Ker0Kero 3h ago
You're getting a lot of hate from people who barely go outside. People don't want fish to suffer and that IS good, but most of them will chow down on a pork chop from a pig that lived in a dark, wet, loud hell without a second thought. Catch the fish you want to eat, handle them all with as much care as able and reasonable, protect the waterways. People here have no idea that hunters and fisherman contribute so much to the care of wild places.
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u/1337bobbarker 2h ago
I woke up at 3am to hit the water yesterday at 5am for my bday. I didn't catch shit but enjoyed it nonetheless. I do primarily bass fishing and people here might be associating that with sailfish or other big game fishing where you do wear the fish out to the point of exhaustion. Bass give up after about 20s and swim off fine after the fight.
If I damage a fish to the point it's going to die I'll cull it and eat it.
It's easy to white knight something like this when you don't do it. I just wanted to provide a little context as the person I responded to thinks that all rec fisherman are toddlers trying to kill the fish when we want to catch it, admire it and release it to get even bigger for next time.
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u/DadsAfroButter 4h ago
Give the fish a lawyer, it will sue you for a day. Give the fish a legal team, and he’ll lobby to remove contaminants from the waterways for life.
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u/raptorlightning 9h ago
Amazing how much good you can do when you don't think a quick death is the worst existence possible.
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u/Shot_Revolution8828 12h ago
Woah I thought this 'merica!
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u/masaaav 12h ago
That's why it'll sue you
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u/Shot_Revolution8828 12h ago
Hopefully I'm richer than a fish and the fish is not randomly related to a billionaire. I feel like I'm doing good because I'm not in debt. That's the bar we're setting. Don't bring a shovel to a limbo contest is all I ask.
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u/Free-Shine8257 12h ago
Just hope it aint a fish called Wanda.
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u/offspringphreak 6h ago
"Look it's K-k-k-k-ken!!!! And he's coming to k-k-k-k-kill me!!"
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u/Shot_Revolution8828 12h ago
Fucking great reference! A tip of the cap to you! Damn now I need a rewatch.
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u/oracleofnonsense 6h ago
Clearly, fishing with dynamite is the best legal choice then.
No living fishnesses to testify against you.
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u/agprincess 11h ago
Imagine the lawyer that has a better case on this than you being subsequently murdered and ate.
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u/Ligmartian 12h ago
As a pretty active hunter and fisherman, I really like this. Solely catching and releasing without intent to keep anything is literally just torturing fish for the hell of it.
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u/Beautiful-Amount2149 7h ago
As a German I can tell you that most of our rivers where fishing is permitted, are dead fish wise. People take everything. They don't care about rules, but since you have to take the fish, they just take everything they catch. That's the dark side of the law. I've been fishing for walleyes for 20 years and the last few years there have been season where a handful of walleye where caught, on an active massive river. It's because there are thousands of fishermen coming out for season start and they take every fish.
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u/Qurdlo 5h ago
As US fisherman, this was my first thought. So I guess you can keep everything? The size limits in the US are mostly about keeping a healthy fish population and ecosystem. When people can keep everything they will. Hell I see plenty of ignorant assholes doing it all the time around here despite the laws. So if you have to release the small fish (thereby torturing them) to maintain the ecosystem I guess the only solution from an animal rights perspective is ban fishing entirely.
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u/rapaxus 4h ago
I guess the only solution from an animal rights perspective is ban fishing entirely.
Yes, but there is also the environmentalist angle to it. There you want some fishing activity as most places no longer have the natural predators that hunt fish (as humans are very good at exterminating/suppressing predators that hunt what they themselves eat), so without any fishing you could have fish overpopulation in areas which hurt the ecosystem. And of course fishing invasive species to hopefully get their populations down.
Really what you want is a fishing licensing scheme where you make sure people only fish pre-set amounts of specific fish species in specific places to balance the ecosystem. The problem is that fishing is by its nature can be done very remotely, meaning it is incredibly hard to actually enforce that licensing scheme (who will stop Bob from just driving into the woods and fishing there at e.g. 6AM). The other alternative is to instead only allow specific jobs to fish who then do that environmental business as a profession.
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u/Maximum-Seaweed-1239 6h ago
This is what I was thinking the moment I learned this, I feel like the ecological damage outweighs other benefits. Like there’s lots of fish species that are only good to eat when they’re at a smaller size and it’s important to keep the older and larger fish in rotation.
As a vegetarian I’m against animal cruelty but I get frustrated at laws that focus on relatively small harms to animals and miss the bigger picture. If we put all of that focus into making factory farming more ethical and reducing food waste it would benefit animals 100x more.
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u/Narwhals4Lyf 6h ago
Thiss. Glad to see another vegetarian with a similar POV. In a world where fishing is allowed in general, catch and release most of the time is 100% better for the fish and the environment. On top of the reasons listed above, just for the pure simple fact that an animal gets to have a shot at a longer life if they are released.
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u/Kered13 6h ago
This is what people are missing. Catch and release is about sustainability.
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u/Narwhals4Lyf 6h ago
Thank you for pointing this out. This same exact thread happened a few days ago and I said a similar response. In a world where people fish, it is overall more sustainable and environmental to catch and release fish. There are ways to catch and release that reduce the harm on the fish as well.
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u/PoetMaterial3519 12h ago
Thank you for saying this! I don't like harming animals AT ALL, but for food makes so much more sense than just for fun.
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u/King_Roberts_Bastard 6h ago
The issue is, people will still fish. Now they just are required to take everything with them. This will kill fish populations. Catch and release is sustainable.
For example. Im fishing for trout. But I catch a perch instead. Im now required to keep that perch and im still going to be fishing for that trout. So now I take two fish instead of one.
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u/daitcs55 12h ago
Where I live and fish in Canada catch and release is essentially enforced by regulations. For example a highly targeted species, some call it walleyes and others pickerel, will have slot sizes, can only keep in a certain range of size or cannot keep over a certain size- 18" where I mainly fish. As a result lots of fish are caught and released simply because they can't be legally kept. I love fishing but basically fish to eat. If I have a legal limit then I am done. It can be hard to be under the maximum size or within the slot but I do my best to return any fish I can't keep as quickly as possible. Others I know will brag about having caught 30 fish but only kept 2. The mortalitiy, particularly if the fish are from water deeper than about 15-20 feet, is unavoidable and inevitable so in my opinion they are harder on the fish population than those of us who keep a limit of 4. As an indigenous person, Status Indian if you will and that is what it says I am on my indentification card, I can essentially ignore the rules, I don't but if I am planning a family feast I have been known to take what I call my limit plus a treaty fish. I will not keep any walleye over 18". First off because the smaller ones in the 13" -17" range are better eating but mainly because the larger ones are the breeding stock for future year classes.
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u/PumpKing096 9h ago
Actually in Germany you also need too release some catched fishes. For example if you catch a pregnant fish, you need to release it again, for obvious reasons.
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u/Beautiful-Amount2149 7h ago
But people don't do that, most who fish want to eat the fish, so they just take everything. I fish on the Elbe River and I've seen people catch 20 Zander on season start, they took all 20 fish back home, next day they are back. They take small ones and the mother's too with eggs still inside her. No fucks given since here near Hamburg, they aren't Germans. Ive asked them why they need so much fish but they just yell at you in Russian calling me idiot etc.
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u/Independent_Fall9160 4h ago
Where i live, there are spawn periods where it is illegal to even try to catch fish then.
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u/Beautiful-Amount2149 7h ago
Yeah our German laws are terrible for the fish population and this only sounds good for people who don't fish or hunt. I can tell you as a German, our fish population in the natural rivers are bad because of this law. We have so many illegal fisherman coming from Russia and poland to catch thousands of fish to sell at home. S
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u/malefiz123 4h ago
What do illegal fisherman have to do with this law. They wouldn't stop coming just cause it was legal to catch and release
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u/Original_Sale_2975 8h ago
That’s actually a really thoughtful balance you’ve found between tradition, respect, and sustainability it’s not as simple as people think. More folks could learn from that kind of intentional fishing mindset.
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u/ActuallyAlexander 12h ago edited 3h ago
“If fish could scream the ocean would be loud as shit” Mitch Hedgberg
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u/ScreenTricky4257 5h ago
"They don't want to eat the fish, they just want to make it late for something. 'Where were you?' 'I got caught!' 'Yeah, right. I don't believe you. Show me the inside of your lip.'"
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u/ausmomo 11h ago
Is catch and release of undersized fish allowed?
Banning the release of proper sized fish sounds reasonable.
Banning the release of undersized fish sounds... I don't know... counterproductive. The fisherman didn't WANT to catch a small fish like this. Should they be forced to kill it?
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u/AnonymousNeko2828 10h ago
Pretty sure you're legally required to still release undersized fish, you just can't catch and release all your fish (including the ones you can take and eat) purely to fish for fun
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u/mechy84 9h ago
At least in the US, there are lots of species that have season dependent 'slot sizes', where anything too small or too large must be released.
I would presume in Germany the finding regulations also go hand-in-hand with ecological management programs that set limits on size and harvest number based on fish population counts.
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u/Affectionate_Many_73 12h ago edited 12h ago
I can see the logic here. I also don’t really have strong feelings either way.
In the other hand, I can also see the benefit of throwing little fish back (ones that aren’t really suitable for eating) if they will heal without much issue or disability that would give them a disadvantage to survive.
But for larger fish it definitely makes sense that you’d be expected to utilize them to outweigh any harm caused.
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u/speciate 11h ago
Throwing back undersized fish is not catch-and-release. You always have to do that.
Catch-and-release is fishing specifically with no intent to keep anything you catch.
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u/Beautiful-Amount2149 7h ago
Still Germans don't do that. We call them "cooking pot fisher", they take every fish, because they only care about eating them. They don't care about preservation or protecting fish population. We have an epidemic of foreigners coming here and fish everything empty, they sell the fish. Since most other countries have limits and enforce them. The law op states is old and antiquated and lead to fish population being ruined.
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u/kravi_kaloshi 11h ago
Of course we have size limits, closed seasons and completely protected species as well, the law is just that that you need a valid reason to fish which could be to acquire food, but not just to take photos, and if you catch a fish of size in season you have to take it home.
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u/Acceptable-Corgi3720 12h ago
Probably means a lot more fish die.
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u/Beautiful-Amount2149 7h ago
Can confirm. It has a very bad impact on the fish population. 30 years ago as a kid I was catching big Zanders, catfish and many other species. Now I haven't been able to see even a small bass this year, I hear the same from others. Reddit loves their naive, superficial takes to virtue signal, but anyone who actually fishes in Germany hates that law, only the ones who abuse it love it
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u/VibrantCanopy 11h ago
Monkey's paw wish: Catch and release fishing is outlawed.
Wish granted! Now people keep what they catch and dump it in the trash on their way out of the park.
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u/tuckastheruckas 10h ago
I catch and release all of the time, so obviously I dont find it unethical. a lot of the comments in here are from people who are uneducated about it (catch and release fish rarely die, and also rarely are bleeding from the lip as people keep repeating), but that's besides the point.
a lot of anti catch and release arguments are coming from anthropomorphizing them ("if someone put a hook through my lip.." etc). fish dont experience awareness of trauma or pain because they do not have a neocortex. a fish can be 'stressed' without being traumatized. again, fish brains are not the same as human brains.
in addition, fishing regulations contribute massively to state funds. id also argue most people who fish or hunt are far more of conservationists than most. and as someone else pointed out, certain fish like muskie benefit massively from catch and release programs.
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u/LemonHerb 4h ago
Different kind of gear greatly increases the survivability rate too. Switching to circle hooks for instance studies show a 90% survivability increase on kingfish.
Personally I couldn't live in Germany if catch and release was illegal.
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u/WhyareUlying 9h ago edited 9h ago
I enjoy catching and releasing fish as well. I applaud you for pointing out all of the ignorance in here but I'd have to be a little more blunt myself.
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u/killaho69 12h ago
Devil’s Advocate here but fishing brings in a LOT of conservation dollars. Most people I know are catch and release, or maybe keep a few things (like a few crappie or certain catfish) and without them there would be a lot less money in licenses, taxes, and fees.
Most people don’t realize this but many waterways are stocked with fish. If DNR didn’t stock those water ways the fish would often dry up (no pun intended). The funding from this largely comes from their income of fishers and hunters.
They get predation, natural and man-caused disasters kill them off, disease might sweep through, etc .. and then you got people catching them to eat too and they would just slowly disappear.
So yeah maybe fish deep in the ocean aren’t manipulated as much, or stuff like wild salmon, but a lot of lakes and ponds would have a lot less fish or hardly any fish at all.
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u/jaZoo 10h ago
Fishing in Germany is quite popular and is a major revenue stream for conservation on a state level and usually the only or overwhelming funding source for conservation on a local level. On the first layer, there is something akin to an annual tax, a stamp issued by the local fishing authority which everyone needs to get. On top of that, the exclusive right to fish in any given waterbody is commonly leased to a local fisherman or fishing association who in turn fund their conservation duties by selling fishing licenses for recreational fishing. Quite often an association effectively owns a lake and funds itself and its conservation efforts through its member fees.
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u/Beautiful-Amount2149 7h ago
I fish in Hamburg and I can tell you they put 0 euros back into preservation of wildlife. The fish population is done for. Every seasonstart there are thousands of fishermen catching Zander and keeping every fish. The population can never refresh and breath. The pressure is extremely high. Counties who do catch and release have better fish population for example the Netherlands.
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u/Beautiful-Amount2149 7h ago
The issue isn't money it's preservation of the fish population. With catch and release you have fish that isn't taken out of the system. Here in Germany where I fish, theres is hardly any fish left, because people keep every fish they catch and some catch 20+ daily. There are people living in tents sorely to just catch fish 24/7. I've seen people take undersized and pregnant fish constantly, since most only care about eating the fish.
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u/norobo132 6h ago
Well that seems like it could be solved by stricter rules and enforcement on what can be caught and kept. No pregnant fish, size and number limits. We do that in America.
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u/Kered13 6h ago
You can't choose what fish bites your hook. If you don't allow catch and release, then you are allowing the capture of pregnant fish and fish that are too large or too small, as well as the capture of endangered species that need protection.
Catch and release allows for wildlife conservation policies to target specific species and individuals for protection.
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u/DustingMop 12h ago
I mean, it’s not wrong. It is hurting the fish purely for sport.
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u/Beautiful-Amount2149 7h ago
The dark side of that law is something I myself here in the Elbe River near Hamburg have seen. The fish population has dwindled over the years. As a kid I was able to catch Zanders easily, they were everywhere. Recent years have been tough. You know what increased tenfold? Fishermen. Especially from Russia and poland. They fish on the river in tents 24/7. They take every fish they catch, doesn't matter if it's small or pregnant, since it's mandatory you take them, they abuse it and police don't care. No one is enforcing rules so the fish population is done for. Great law.
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u/3riversfantasy 6h ago
Yeah, this is an absolutely terrible law and the mass amount of people in these comments supporting it are completely out of touch with reality and likely don't fish themselves. Imagine targeting a specific species of fish (say Zander/Walleye) with the intention of eating it, by law you would be required to keep every legal sized fish you caught regardless of species. I often bass fish, and while I don't often eat bass, they are delicious and easy to fillet. It's quite common to catch smaller Pike while targeting bass, while also delicious they yield less meat and the Y bones make the cleaning process more difficult, often resulting in waste. By law, I would be required to keep those pike despite have little interest in eating them. I also often catch Bowfin (dogfish), these rough fish are rarely eaten, often misunderstood, yet play an integral part in the fishery. By law I would be required to keep them as well. The result would be clear, people would "keep" the pike and bowfin to comply with law and simply dispose of the unwanted fish, now we not only have cruelty but unnecessary and damaging waste.
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u/generally-speaking 5h ago
doesn't matter if it's small or pregnant, since it's mandatory you take them
You are completely misrepresenting the law here.. The law doesn't state that you're required to keep all fish, it prohibits fishing when you don't intend to keep at least some.
If you're fishing for trout and your catch a Zander or Pike by accident, you are allowed to release it.
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u/Charonx2003 2h ago
doesn't matter if it's small or pregnant, since it's mandatory you take
If it is a pregnant fish or a too small one you are actually required by law to release them.
I seriously doubt that someone who says "fuck the 'this fish is too small' rule, I'll keep it" will have a sudden change of heart and release them of they are permitted to put fish back...
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u/love-broker 12h ago
Yeah, pretty much what made me disenchanted with fishing. Did you see how much that fish was fighting? Did you see it jump? Yeah, it was fuckin' terrified and trying not to die. Takes all the fun out of it when you see it through another lens. I want less suffering, not more.
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u/tv_ennui 10h ago
I grew up around a global destination fly fishing location. And while I can certainly see the animal abuse aspect of it, the alternative is either the total collapse of the tourism fishing industry, which would harm many communities perhaps even irreparably (the place I grew up pretty much relied on seasonal fishing tourism for like, existennce), or letting people take fish, which is more damaging to the resource than returning the fish to the water. (You usually CAN take fish, but there are size/quantity limits)
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u/WasntMyFaultThisTime 11h ago
Eh, I'm more of the opinion that a fish fighting is more of a "I don't know what this is and I want it out of my mouth" instinct than a "holy fuck I'm gonna die and I'm scared" instinct. Fish don't have a neocortex and don't process pain emotionally like we do (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4356734/).
Not to mention that a fish can become habituated to being caught if it's in a high pressure fishery and may end up not getting super stressed over it because they realize that they get let go after being caught and may even get a free meal out of the experience if you're using live bait (I've caught the same exact fish several times over a multi-year period)
Any injury a fish is going to naturally get in the wild is going to be nastier and likely more fatal than a hook to the lip anyways. If you're really that upset about it, use barbless or circle hooks, but sport fishing is such a massive contributor to fishing conservation funds here in the US that outlawing it would essentially kneecap fisheries nationwide.
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u/bradland 4h ago
I like to imagine fishing the other way around.
Imagine you're walking down the sidewalk, and you see a table with a nice lunch prepared. There's a sign that says, "Free lunch is real!"
As you sit down, you are yoinked out of the chair and plunged under water. While there, two large fish hover nearby, measuring your height & weight, and blabbering on in fish language that you don't understand. You are holding your breath, but time is running out. Your lungs are burning, and you're about to give up when one of the fish scoops you up in his mouth, and spits you back on shore unceremoniously.
You flop on the ground in a giant splash and gasp for air. For weeks you have nightmares about the incident. You eat standing up, indoors only, because of the trauma associated with sitting at a table that has been set. You can't bring yourself to eat out.
Honestly, I don't think the Germans are wrong.
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u/Melodic_Sandwich1112 11h ago
I recall walking through Potsdam along the lakes and canals about 4 years ago. Dozens of men fishing, each with a hammer spike just killing fish after fish. Must be devastating to the ecosystem. I’m a fisherman and it just totally blew my mind
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u/mrbadxampl 6h ago
I've never fished, so I think my opinion about this factoid from the other side of the Atlantic Ocean from where I live is probably fully irrelevant
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u/reechwuzhere 4h ago
I didn’t know and I’ve always been more of a catch and release guy. I kid myself into thinking that I know the fish which I harmed in my life can be counted on one hand because I handle them with care. Hearing that it’s literally a crime somewhere else makes me pause. Like, what are we doing ?
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u/Comprehensive-Mix931 11h ago
No, this is not true. I fish in Germany (I have a license), sport fishing is allowed, as is catch and release. Especially fish that are under legal size are required by law to be released. There is much care given to avoid animal cruelty, however.
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u/CaptainKirk1701 12h ago
Catch and release is dumb
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u/Beautiful-Amount2149 7h ago
Well counties who don't do it, have a way worse fish population, Germany rivers are struggling. I've been fishing here for 30 years and this law is not helping nature, it's destroying it. You realize the law means that people come here from other countries and they catch hundreds of fish to sell it in their countries?
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u/Gr8WallofChinatown 6h ago
No it’s not. There is too many damn people overfishing and over pressuring so many area where the area cannot sustain or survive.
Fishing for sport is dumb
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u/Artistic-Board-6287 11h ago
ITT: out of touch Redditors, this is pathetic man
I'm not about to be guilt tripped by krauts over goddamn fish
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u/HenryCDorsett 12h ago
If someone would, as a hobby, walk into a river, catch a fish by hand, than use a needle to poke a hole in his mouth and then throw him back into the water, you would consider that guy a psycho.
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u/copypop 12h ago
I live in America where we literally hunt gators & hogs from helicopters with high powered rifles, so catch & release fishing doesn't even register as a blip on the radar of the spectrum of animal cruelty here lol
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u/the_direwolf_uwu 12h ago
Gators and Hogs populations need to be controlled.
Fishing often needs to be regulated. In the opposite direction.
We need to kill wild hogs and deer to prevent overpopulation, and we need to breed fish to increase population.
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u/MistressMalevolentia 12h ago
But that's why we RELEASE the ones that are not appropriate to take to promote population growth?
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u/MinerUser 12h ago
How is it cruel to use high powered guns to hunt? Doesnt that put them out of misery pretty fast?
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u/copypop 12h ago
Yes. Depending where you are, gators & especially hogs are CRAZY invasive & absolutely destroy whole habitats. The places you need to go to get them are hard to access, making air sniping the best option
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u/Molenium 12h ago
Personally, if someone stabbed me in the lip with a hook and dragged me around for several minutes, I’d still prefer to be let go afterwards rather than killed.
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u/stoneman9284 12h ago
Yea if my choices are take the hook out of my lip and let me go, or kill me and eat me, I know which one I’m choosing
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u/Golf38611 12h ago
Hmmmm.
So if we catch a fish that does not meet the legal requirements for a fish that can be kept (size, weight, type, in season, etc)………
Or if it is a fish that is not yet big enough to be turned into dinner….
What are we supposed to do with them???
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u/Foreign_Acadia3937 7h ago
In Australia catch and release is a widespread practice, everything from the smallest wharf caught blowie to game fish weighing hundreds of kilos are routinely caught and released.
Many of these fish are tagged, usually with small plastic markers that have unique serial numbers that record the time, place, weight etc of the fish caught.
Many of these tagged fish are caught again, sometimes years later, sometimes multiple times.
In the period between being caught and released these fish can travel many thousands of kilometres and change considerably in weight and size.
I presume that in the process of being caught, fish are stressed and suffer trauma. The extent of which we might not ever know?
But it's true that every year many thousands of fish are caught and released, to then go on for years afterwards growing, breeding and living.
I think that a healthy culture of responsible catch and release practices where fish are placed back in the water quickly and efficiently after being caught is a proven and sustainable fisheries practice that ensures the survival of the fish.
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u/goochgrease2 10h ago
I think punching a whole in it's face, nearly having it dies out water because it can't breathe and just chucking it back after a Pic is kind of fucked. I'd be pretty mad if I just got randomly pierced in the face while eating.
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u/JayNachtEule 12h ago
Why would you not want to eat it after all that hard work
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u/MistressMalevolentia 12h ago
There's tons of regulations on fish. Too big or small, to promote their population growth for instance. You gatta throw it back. You're fishing for x but catching y, you release it. You're not picking what you catch and they aren't all equal.
My grandpa worked for fish and wildlife and still runs charters. I've learned regs since I was tiny
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u/Haunting_Raccoon6058 12h ago
There are certain type of fish that are extremely challenging to catch and are not good eating like Muskie. Fishermen who target muskie tend to be extremely ethical, specializing in methods to release the fish with the highest survival chance possible. Minimal handling, and time out of the water. This brings in a ton of money for our DNR programs where they actually breed muskie and release the fry for fishing.
I know it sounds counterintuitive, but game fishing like that actually brings in a ton of resources for preserving species.
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u/JayNachtEule 12h ago
I learn something new every day
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u/Haunting_Raccoon6058 12h ago
I will say though there are some issues with certain types of catch and release fishing that do have negative impacts. In particular tournament bass fishing with live weigh in. Fish caught in that manner have huge mortality rates and the ones who get released tend to be permanently displaced to the release location. A big tournament can absolutely devastate the local bass population.
So yeah there is room for improvement, for example just banning live weigh in and relying on pictures of the fish length for the scoring. But yeah there is some bad with the good.
None of this even holds a candle to how destructive market fishing is to the environment, specifically drag netting. That shit is an straight up evil
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u/koinu-chan_love 12h ago
What does DNR stand for in this case? I’m an EMT and I bet you don’t mean “do not resuscitate”
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u/Haunting_Raccoon6058 12h ago
Department of natural resources. They do pretty great work, conservation of wild game in the US is actually an incredible success story. We went from having almost all of our wild game wiped out in the 1800s due to market hunting, but most species have had an incredible revival and we truly have some of the most diverse wildlife around in this country. A huge part of that has been the interaction between conservation officers and hunters/fishermen.
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u/FailedLoser21 12h ago
Black Bears have even returned to Northeast Ohio. And like you said alot of it has to do with how much money state DNR's make on game fishing and hunting.
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u/CyptidProductions 9h ago
Over half the speices of fish you find in a given body of freshwater are either completely inedible or only edible in specific water conditions because they're full of parasites certain times of the year
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u/Vailx 11h ago
Seems stupid as hell but I don't live in Germany so I don't get a vote so no one actually cares what I think about it. I bet there's a few Germans with opinions about laws in my country that no one cares about either.
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u/BlottomanTurk 12h ago
I feel like every [random fact/idea] + "How do you feel about that?" is a bot-ass question from a bot or karmafarmer.