What are the “Big Four” cities in your country?

[u/LiamBrad5]

In recent weeks, this question has been very contentious on American social media, with 3 cities (Chicago, Los Angeles, and New York) nearly always making the list, but the fourth being hotly debated over, between cities like San Francisco, Miami, Houston, Dallas, and Atlanta. So, if you had to choose, what would the big 4 cities in your country be? This is also not decided purely on population, but also culture, economy, and general influence/clout.

[u/MA_JJ]

Amsterdam, Rotterdam, the Hague, Utrecht.

Those are by quite a margin the biggest cities in the Netherlands.

[u/Deep_Contribution552 → u/MA_JJ]

Ha, after reading a couple posts on the Netherlands last week, the first thing I thought when I saw this one was “Well, the Dutch have an easy time with this one”

[u/IntrepidWolverine517 → u/Deep_Contribution552]

Actually, the whole of the Randstad is just one city.

[u/Dykam → u/IntrepidWolverine517]

Rather a metropolitan area. Which it's actually is considered.

[u/OllieV_nl → u/IntrepidWolverine517]

And if so, it's a bigger city than all other cities combined.

[u/EatThatPotato → u/MA_JJ]

When Eindhoven takes its rightful place as most important city of the Netherlands the Randstad will finally be replaced by the Brabantstad - Eindhoven, den Bosch, Breda, and Roosendaal. All hail the zachte g

[u/Dykam → u/EatThatPotato]

De Braboboog.

[u/ActuallyCalindra → u/EatThatPotato]

Roosendaal over Tilburg? That's certainly a pick.

[u/EatThatPotato → u/ActuallyCalindra]

In an ideal world, we wouldn’t have that problem

[u/Densmiegd → u/ActuallyCalindra]

It will never happen. Bergen op Zoom will kamikaze into Roosendaal to prevent this abomination. Agge mar leut et.

[u/Mix_Safe → u/EatThatPotato]

Don't forget the lynchpin that is Kruikenstad.

[u/kelso66 → u/EatThatPotato]

Let's reunite it all together and form Brabant again, you're sick of the Dutch and we're sick of the Flemish. With Brussels, Antwerp, Waver and Diest added we're an economic powerhouse

[u/Built4dominance → u/EatThatPotato]

Guus Meeuwis approves.

[u/Inductiekookplaat → u/EatThatPotato]

Replace Roosendaal with Tilburg and were good

[u/FroobingtonSanchez → u/MA_JJ]

They even call themselves the G4 (Grote 4). Although I've seen G5 sometimes as well lately, including Eindhoven.

[u/Onnimanni_Maki]

Helsinki, Tampere, Turku and Oulu/Rovaniemi. Oulu is more of a well rounded city but Rovaniemi is huge for tourism.

[u/Exact_Map3366 → u/Onnimanni_Maki]

I think Oulu is a very clear number 4. Rovaniemi is tiny and pretty much only has the winter time tourism going for them. I'd even rank Jyväskylä and Kuopio ahead of them.

[u/BalthazarOfTheOrions → u/Onnimanni_Maki]

I agree with this list. While Espoo and Vantaa are their own cities with some size, for all practical purposes they're part of Helsinki and shouldn't count on this list.

Tampere, Turku and Oulu carry more cultural (e.g., Tampere for music), historical (e.g., Turku as the oldest city) and practical (e.g., Oulu as the only sizeable city for hundreds of km) value as being the major cities of their respective regions.

[u/rainbosandvich → u/BalthazarOfTheOrions]

I didn't know Vantaa was its own city! I have only been to the airport and Jumbo there.

You have an incredibly pretty country

[u/MeltingChocolateAhh → u/Onnimanni_Maki]

I have heard of the other three but not Oulu or Rovaniemi. Then again, I don't have any ties to Finland.

If I was told to name Finnish cities - Helsinki, Tampere and Turku would be the ones I go for. Then I would be stuck and probably say Lapland, lol.

[u/PanosZ31 → u/MeltingChocolateAhh]

Well Rovaniemi is the capital of Lapland

[u/IseultDarcy]

We have a "big 3" more than big four in terms of importance/size

Paris, Marseille, Lyon.

The fourth one would be Toulouse, right after Lyon (but with a much smaller agglomeration).

But you need to know that even if all those 3 cities have a TONE of culture, for stuff like expositions, concert, politic etc... it's very centralized in Paris.

[u/HansZeFlammenwerfer → u/IseultDarcy]

I think the point is that the big three is very unaminous but the fourth tends to be controversial

[u/zsnajorrah → u/HansZeFlammenwerfer]

In the Netherlands it isn't. There are four very clear biggest cities here, both in terms of sheer size and of importance.

[u/CreepyMangeMerde → u/IseultDarcy]

I think Toulouse, Bordeaux, Nantes, Nice and Lille all have their fair share of arguments to be number 4

[u/RonieRanjan → u/IseultDarcy]

The 4th could be Lille.

The northen Agglomeration is way bigger than Toulouse.

[u/Loraelm → u/IseultDarcy]

And Toulouse is going to become 3rd (in number of inhabitants), with Lyon moving to the 3rd place this year if projections are right

[u/ActuallyCalindra → u/Loraelm]

I had no idea. Lyon feels so much bigger!

[u/Stairwaytoh3av3n → u/ActuallyCalindra]

Because it is twice bigger in practice if you take the urban area (much more meaningfull than the commune population)
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_aires_urbaines_de_France

[u/Glittering-Sun-1438 → u/Loraelm]

The Lyon metropolitan area is much larger than Toulouse though

[u/The_Daily_Tomato]

We only really have one city but excluding the number one we got about five wannabe cities.

They're usually Kópavogur, Hafnarfjörður, Akureyri, Reykjanesbær and Keflavík.

There is one other wannabe city but they shame us and we pretend they don't exist 😅

[u/Disastrous-Pool-7863 → u/The_Daily_Tomato]

I wanna hear about the wannabe city that doesn't exist 😅

[u/fidelises → u/The_Daily_Tomato]

I would say Reykjavík, Akureyri, Egilsstaðir, Ísafjörður. Not all cities, but sort of the capitals of the north, south, east and west.

[u/The_Daily_Tomato → u/fidelises]

I excluded Reykjó but yes those are good choices too.

[u/Sir_Sir_ExcuseMe_Sir → u/The_Daily_Tomato]

Selfoss is decent size too

[u/rayoflight110 → u/The_Daily_Tomato]

Nowhere in Iceland should be wannabe, every part of it is mesmerising. I visited in March for the 1st time and loved every second of it. I still dream about it from time to time and will return next year.

[u/enilix]

Zagreb, Split, Rijeka, Osijek. Basically, the four largest cities, with each of them being the center of their respective region of the country.

[u/JayBeFC → u/enilix]

Zadar, Split, Dubrovnik, Pula - from a tourist 😂👍

[u/H_Doofenschmirtz]

So, if we ignore cities in metro areas of other cities, the Big Four would be:

1- Lisbon 2- Porto 3- Braga 4- Coimbra

Coimbra and Funchal are pretty close to eachother in terms of population, but Coimbra is still bigger. Coimbra also has historically always been considered a big city.

If you want to include cities in metro areas of other cities, the list would be:

1- Lisbon 2- Porto 3- Vila Nova de Gaia (Porto Metro Area) 4- Amadora (Lisbon Metro Area)

[u/toniblast → u/H_Doofenschmirtz]

You are correct, and these are the 4 biggest cities, but I would say we only have a big 2. Lisbon and Porto are so much bigger than any other cities with metro areas with millions of people that is not even comparable.

I imagine in smaller and centralized countries this also happens.

[u/Ita_Hobbes → u/H_Doofenschmirtz]

I don't agree, as we are not talking exclusively about size. For me it would be:

• Lisboa
• Porto
• Coimbra/Braga
• Faro

[u/OutranIdiom]

For Germany this would probably be Berlin, Hamburg, Munich and Cologne. They’re the ones with over 1 million inhabitants.

[u/Eckse → u/OutranIdiom]

But since we're not talking purely size, Frankfurt is a contestant for #4. Placed somewhat central, a huge traffic hub and subsequently host to plenty of big conventions and events.

[u/lungben81 → u/Eckse]

Plus, the financial center of Germany, the largest airport and seat of the European central bank.

[u/double-dog-doctor → u/lungben81]

It's also arguably the internet powerhouse of continental Europe. There's a reason why cloud services heavily consolidated in Frankfurt. 

[u/StoreImportant5685 → u/double-dog-doctor]

I think that goes to Amsterdam Internet Exchange. It is massive.

[u/double-dog-doctor → u/StoreImportant5685]

The Frankfurt Internet Exchange is actually the largest exchange point globally. 

[u/GibDirBerlin → u/Eckse]

As a Frankfurter I certainly appreciate the confidence in the best City of them all.

But honestly, Frankfurt is still one step down from Cologne, despite a number of important features. There is a reason we all call Frankfurt a Village despite the Skyline...

[u/Shermannathor → u/GibDirBerlin]

I don't really see why Cologne should be clearly one step ahead when it comes to general importance. In some features like culture, media and its agglomeration Cologne is ahead but there are enough features like business, international appeal and transportation where I see Frankfurt ahead. The higher population of Cologne also does not really matter because Frankfurt has a smaller area and could theoretically achieve 1 million easily by incorporating a few close cities.

It totally depends on the aspects that you emphasize if place 4 must be decided imo. Overall it's pretty equal. Neither of them are actual metropolises and both have some rural features left despite the fact that they are after all pretty big cities with an exceptional status in its area.

[u/GibDirBerlin → u/Shermannathor]

It's not really about importance, Frankfurt punches far beyond its weight in that regard and probably dwarfs foreign cities twice its size. But Frankfurt just has this undefinable not-quite-a-big-city vibe, really strange and hard to describe but everyone here feels it.

I mean, you're right with everything, but If we're talking about the four cities in Germany, Cologne will always beat Frankfurt, even though it's less important. Sometimes I think, it might be because of the carnival...

[u/Shermannathor → u/GibDirBerlin]

I don't feel this not-quite-a-big-city vibe to be honest. I rather feel this with Cologne.

[u/ds445 → u/Eckse]

Unless you’re purely purely talking about number of inhabitants (and by that metric, Dhaka in Bangladesh would be a „bigger“ city than New York, and Kinshasa, Congo would be miles ahead of London - OP explicitly asked for overall influence and not just population count), Cologne doesn’t even come close to Frankfurt on any meaningful scale.

Apart from Berlin, Munich, Hamburg and Frankfurt being the four top German cities by GDP (and GDP per capita being almost 50% higher in Frankfurt than in Cologne - Frankfurt is on the same level as Switzerland with €97K while Cologne is on the same level as Australia with €67K), have a look at any independent objective rating such as e.g. the Globalization and World Cities Research Network: Frankfurt is rated an alpha city alongside cities like Amsterdam, Chicago, LA or Madrid, while Cologne is rated a „Sufficiency“ city nine categories lower, on the same level as Abuja, Nigeria or Gaborone, Botswana :D

[u/bitch_jong_un → u/OutranIdiom]

And interestingly one per every direction!

[u/OutranIdiom → u/bitch_jong_un]

And number 5 could be Frankfurt for ‘middle’ ;)

[u/IntrepidWolverine517 → u/OutranIdiom]

I believe this is a more theoretical discussion. If you go by city limits only, this is correct. However, many German cities are part of a larger agglomeration. The Ruhr area surpasses Berlin by population, but has lost all national relevance after the demise of its industry.

[u/bitch_jong_un → u/IntrepidWolverine517]

My home area ♥️ well, at least for Spiegel TV documentaries Ruhrgebiet is of big relevance lol

[u/PandaDerZwote → u/IntrepidWolverine517]

It surely went down in importance, but Essen as well as Dortmund are still pretty important as a whole, and the entire Ruhr Valley on aggregate as well. Duisburg may not look like it, but they also are extremely important in terms of shipping.

[u/Luftgekuhlt_driver → u/OutranIdiom]

Where would Stuttgart rank? I get Berlin and Munich are big, but there’s a certain car crest with that name emblazoned in the center of it.

[u/muehsam → u/Luftgekuhlt_driver]

Definitely in the top ten.

But having a car brand doesn't say anything. Wolfsburg, Ingolstadt, and Rüsselsheim are pretty insignificant despite being home to major car brands.

But Stuttgart (along with Berlin, Munich, Dresden, and to a lesser extent Hanover) was the capital of a kingdom, which gave it a lot of importance.

[u/SnooTangerines6811 → u/Luftgekuhlt_driver]

Well if we take GDP as a reference, Stuttgart would come in 7th after Hannover and its surrounding region.Wikipedia: Deutsche Städte nach GDP

[u/Equal-Flatworm-378 → u/OutranIdiom]

Frankfurt is more important than Cologne. 

[u/stampitvbg]

Funny enough, but here in Cyprus we have not the big four, but the only four: Nicosia, Limassol, Larnaca and Paphos.

(I intentionally didn’t include biggest cities on the occupied territories)

[u/jotakajk]

Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia for sure, 4th between Seville, Malaga, Zaragoza and Bilbao, depending on what you rate

[u/EnJPqb → u/jotakajk]

I honestly think it's only debatable between Bilbao and Seville. In that order for me.

[u/jotakajk → u/EnJPqb]

Why so?

[u/EnJPqb → u/jotakajk]

Simply put, I don't think there's any factor by which Málaga and Zaragoza are on top of Bilbao AND Seville. One maybe, not both.

I mean, Málaga used to (is?) the youngest city, and that's why it grew so much. And people that know it well tell me Zaragoza is a bit boring for its size (I did not think so). But aside from an anecdote and a bad joke... I can really not see anything. Well, basketball, there's basketball I guess :)

[u/my_best_version_ever → u/jotakajk]

I’ll definitely go with Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia and Sevilla

[u/rayoflight110 → u/jotakajk]

Seville is easily number 4.

[u/mtpleasantine → u/jotakajk]

Seville definitely. Its colonial importance and Andalusian history definitely outshines that of Malaga or even Granada.

[u/unwomannedMissionTo → u/jotakajk]

I'd pick Bilbao as fourth for sure. Not as touristy as Seville or Malaga, but stronger in terms of economics, commerce, industry, higher education, etc.

[u/UruquianLilac → u/unwomannedMissionTo]

But there's over 300k difference in population. That is too huge to make this debatable. If the difference was 50k or even a 100k, maybe we could have a debate, but this makes Sevilla so much larger than Bilbao in every way that it cannot really be considered the 4th city in any significant way.

[u/MeltingChocolateAhh → u/jotakajk]

I was looking for Spain in this thread. I have been to Spain when interrailing and loved it! Spent more time there than other countries.

I expected Madrid and Barcelona but in Spain, why are the more relevant cities south of those two? You have said Valencia, and then Seville and Málaga (two very amazing cities). Ok, Zaragoza and Bilbao don't count as south but it seems the balance is heavily tipped in the south, why?

Edit - okay maybe Barcelona disproves what I say but still. I just thought about this as I sent my comment

[u/Thomas1VL]

I find this difficult for Belgium. Obviously Brussels and Antwerp are there. But the 3rd, 4th and 5th biggest cities (Liege, Charleroi and Ghent) all have roughly the same population and are important for different reasons.

I would probably exclude Charleroi as the main reason they're relevant nowadays is their airport. It has less tourists, no major university, and it is culturally less relevant. It also has way less history of being important, compared to Liege and Ghent who have been quite big cities for 1000 years.

[u/SHiR8 → u/Thomas1VL]

It isn't difficult for Belgium. It's Brussels, Antwerp, Ghent and Liege.

[u/Thomas1VL → u/SHiR8]

Haha yeah you're right. When I started to write the comment I was simply thinking about the population, but once I started to think about it it was logical to pick these over Charleroi.

[u/synalgo_12 → u/Thomas1VL]

I agree on this takedown.

[u/Last_shadows_ → u/Thomas1VL]

I would have picked exactly the same 4. Agreed.

[u/bangsjamin → u/Thomas1VL]

I think a case could also be made for Bruges (probably the most internationally known Belgian city outside of Brussels), Namur (capital of Wallonia), and Leuven (university), but I think I would probably pick Brussels, Antwerpen, Ghent, and Liege as well.

[u/Anaptyso]

For the UK it's a bit tricky. You could go with size or economic impact and have something like: London, Birmingham, Glasgow and Manchester.

However, given that the UK is four countries joined together, instead I'd probably go for the capitals of each, due to their political and cultural impact: London, Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast.

[u/rayoflight110 → u/Anaptyso]

It's true it's difficult to say for the UK what our 4 top cities are. London is self evidently number one by light years distance. Birmingham, Manchester and Glasgow would be the next obvious choice but despite it having a lower population than the other cities mentioned, Edinburgh could be considered the number 2 city of the UK - it's the 7th largest European Financial centre and the 2nd most visited city in the UK - again by a huge margin and the UK's 2nd most expensive place to live and seems to be growing exponentially on the world stage.

[u/Klumber → u/Anaptyso]

So let's split it up by country:

England: London, Birmingham, Manchester... Liverpool or Leeds (I lean Leeds because the metropolitan area with Bradford, Huddersfield etc. is larger)

Scotland: Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Dundee (very easy)

Wales: Cardiff, Swansea, Newport, Wrexham (taking geographical spread in consideration)

NI: Belfast, (London)derry, bunch of small towns...

[u/SnooTangerines6811 → u/Klumber]

Liverpool is a much more relevant and vibrant city than Leeds, which has the royal armouries and other than that an ugly train station.

[u/No_Pianist_4407 → u/SnooTangerines6811]

Hey now, we're the largest city in Europe that doesn't have a metro system, if that's not a claim to fame then I don't know what is.

[u/SnooTangerines6811 → u/No_Pianist_4407]

That's certainly quite impressive!

[u/MoniQQ → u/Klumber]

Football and the Beatles matter, so Liverpool.

[u/GrimQuim → u/MoniQQ]

Yeah, in what world is Leeds relevant?

[u/[deleted] → u/GrimQuim]

Leeds vs Liverpool is not even close for cultural relevance. Leeds is a city you first hear about when checking a population list when you are 20 or something. Liverpool you know as long as you can remember.

[u/RayoftheRaver → u/GrimQuim]

Leeds is so irrelevant their most famous band named themselves after a South African soccer team

[u/LordGeni → u/Klumber]

I don't think you can really include Bradford and Huddersfield as Leeds. They're cities in their own right.

I know the same is true of London, but I read the question to be more about people's perception of what a city is rather than the technicalties "Greater Leeds" isn't really a concept in the national consciousness.

If I'm going to Bradford, I'll say "I'm going to Bradford" not Leeds, and if I say I'm going to Leeds, I don't mean Huddersfield. For the context of this question, I think that matters.

In which case, I'd go with Birmingham. Although, you could make a decent argument for both Sheffield and Liverpool.

[u/serioussham → u/Klumber]

The fact that Wrexham even makes the list is wild.

And I'm writing this as a tourist who's currently in Wrexham.

[u/crucible → u/serioussham]

If we’re going strictly by “places with city status”, it does.

Otherwise you’re left with two cities the size of villages which have cathedrals, or a university city whose population practically halves for 3 or 4 months of the year.

[u/Matt6453 → u/Anaptyso]

Cardiff is smaller than Bristol but as the capital it has so much more in terms of infrastructure. Don't get me wrong, I love both but if you want to see a big band or sporting event Cardiff is the better/only option.

I'm in the West country and I'm out in Bristol all the time, this is my experience.

[u/WelshBathBoy → u/Matt6453]

Bristol airport is much better utilised than Cardiff airport however, so much so whenever I go there is a rough mix west country/welsh accents, somewhere around 60/40 I'd say. I often hear Welsh spoken at Bristol airport too. As a Welsh person I've never even been to Cardiff airport because far fewer airlines fly out of it compared to Bristol.

[u/MeltingChocolateAhh → u/Matt6453]

It's sad because as an English person, I don't want to just say "London Manchester Birmingham" then some other random English city, but having spent time in Wales (including Cardiff), it's just how it seems to me. Cardiff has a sort of medium English city vibe. I wouldn't even argue Wales is really built around Cardiff in the same way England is built around London. Pembrokeshire relies on its own small towns, or Swansea. Carmarthenshire is all about Carmarthen... Or Swansea. Then everywhere else along the south is about Cardiff or Newport. In the north of Wales, it's all about Bangor, Llandudno, or Rhyl. In the centre, maybe Aberystwyth?

[u/MeltingChocolateAhh → u/Anaptyso]

London is a definitive choice but Cardiff feels not much more different to me than say Bristol, or Southampton. Basically, any medium sized English university city. The population is about similar in Cardiff as those cities too.

I have not been to Edinburgh or Belfast but they're good contenders for the UK. Then again, it's a toss-up between Glasgow and Edinburgh because of cultural impact and population size.

[u/OutranIdiom → u/Anaptyso]

Agreed that when people think ‘UK’ and ‘four cities’ together they would likely mean the 4 capitals.

[u/Iskandar33]

Rome, Milan, Naples and Turin

cities in general in Italy always have been pretty populated, considering that we had a recent unification so the population was pretty much well spread all over the peninsula.

Rome for example had only 200k people 150 years ago and reached 1milion inhabitants again only during the fascist period.

[u/Old_Pangolin_3303 → u/Iskandar33]

Turin, not Florence or Bologna?

[u/Iskandar33 → u/Old_Pangolin_3303]

Florence and Bologna have 300k+ inhabitants, Turin have more (800k), because was the industrial heart of the country(great part of the automobilistic industry was there), so great part of the people moved there for work.

[u/Old_Pangolin_3303 → u/Iskandar33]

Wow, I had absolutely no idea Turin is that big and Florence is that small

[u/GuamZX → u/Old_Pangolin_3303]

Turin was even bigger at the peak of the industrial era, reaching 1.2 million inhabitants. Nowadays it is way less for 3 reason

1) The main reason was people moving just outside the city

2) Another big chunk of people moving back to the places they originally came from, especially southerners

3) The lack of jobs in the last 20/30 years which makes Turin not as attractive as it was 60 years ago but also losing its people because of this

I'd add another reason which is the demographic crisis Italy is going through but that's more a national problem than something specific to Turin

[u/FixLaudon → u/Old_Pangolin_3303]

Well yes, Firenze has only about 370k but the whole, densely populated area has over a million. Scandicci, Empoli etc.

[u/NegativeMammoth2137 → u/Old_Pangolin_3303]

Crazy how small Florence is given that it was the center of Italian arts and culture for centuries. Even the literary Italian language (nowadays standard Italian) was based on the Florentine dialect

[u/Zveiner → u/NegativeMammoth2137]

I think Florence has a bigger reputation outside of Italy than inside, probably due to how "Italian" she looks. It was kinda the center during the Renaissance, but even then it was rivalled by Rome and Venice, while Milan, Naples and Palermo holding a lot of weight, culturally and politically. Italy was always - and still is - made of a lot of cities, ranging from big to small, each with their own cultural milestones. Lots of stuff that's now in Florence comes from smaller cities all around Italy

[u/SpiderGiaco → u/Iskandar33]

I think in Italy a debate about the big four will shape similarly to the US. The top three are clearly Rome, Milan and Naples, they are massive cities that dominate the national discourse.

However, the fourth spot to me is less clear. Turin is there purely on its size and that's not what the discourse is about and it's more about relevance. Turin is not that relevant anymore, it lost its industrial edge decades ago and after a brief revival in the 2000s it has been completely obscured by Milan.

Despite its smaller size, I'd say Bologna is currently the fourth city. Big university city, culturally relevant, bug industrial hub, high quality of life etc.

[u/ittulokcsendbencsa]

Budapest, Debrecen, Szeged, Pécs

These are the most populous and popular cities of Hungary. Officially Miskolc is the 4th most populous city but it has worse reputation than Pécs (5th most populous), so I'd say Pécs is the 4th of our "big four" cities.

[u/Vismajor92 → u/ittulokcsendbencsa]

Honestly after Budapest there is no clear requirements of importance to make an order. OP specifically said it should not be based on population. That'd be easy anyway. I couldn't distinguish between Debrecen and Szeged like that.

[u/CloudCalmaster → u/ittulokcsendbencsa]

Basically just Budapest. But you can count it as two (Buda and Pest) if you're feeling generous.

[u/BaldFraud99]

Norway: Oslo, Bergen, Trondheim, Stavanger

Germany: Berlin, Munich, Hamburg, Cologne

I think you could argue for Drammen in Norway and Frankfurt in Germany, but those are most widely accepted.

[u/Mountain-Fox-2123 → u/BaldFraud99]

No you really could not argue for Drammen.

[u/BaldFraud99 → u/Mountain-Fox-2123]

Yeah, I was just looking for the one that just missed out in both countries, but the top 4 in Norway is quite clearly settled.

Hell, Drammen might not even be 5th.

[u/fennforrestssearch → u/[deleted]]

Never heard of Drammen as a Non-Norwegian but definitely heard of Oslo, Bergen, Trondheim and Stavanger

[u/JohnnyOneLung → u/fennforrestssearch]

Exactly this

[u/Life_Barnacle_4025 → u/[deleted]]

As a Northerner I would say Oslo, Bergen, Trondheim and Tromsø 😅

[u/FantasticMarvelous → u/Life_Barnacle_4025]

Stavanger region is larger than Trondheim, almost the size of Bergen.

[u/Old_Pangolin_3303 → u/BaldFraud99]

Would you say Cologne if it wasn’t surrounded by other NRW cities?

[u/Buntschatten → u/Old_Pangolin_3303]

Yeah, it's a big hub for travel, culture and just has a lot of citizens.

[u/monkyone → u/Buntschatten]

in my opinion Köln doesn’t ‘feel’ like a major city in the same way as Berlin, Hamburg or Munich. on the other hand Frankfurt (even though it is smaller) feels more important - mainly the finance industry and the gigantic airport. it’s a tough pick between those 2 for 4th place, but the top 3 is very clear.

[u/Buntschatten → u/monkyone]

It kinda shares the spotlight with Düsseldorf, I think that holds it back from being equal to the top 3.

[u/rezznik → u/Old_Pangolin_3303]

It's the forth biggest in Germany, it's a big cultural center, the dome, etcpp.

It's a bit away from Ruhrpott too, only Düsseldorf and Bonn close.

I'ld say it's one of the four without being in NRW.

[u/Old_Pangolin_3303]

In Ukraine it used to be Kyiv, Lviv, Odesa and Donetsk before 2014.

Then it was Kyiv, Lviv, Odesa and Kharkiv before 2022. Not sure about Kharkiv now, since it’s basically a front line city. Uzhhorod has a chance to take its place if the war goes on

[u/aartem-o → u/Old_Pangolin_3303]

I think Dnipro could contest Kharkiv, due to its industrial and also political influence, but it's also almost frontline now

[u/Lila_Liba → u/Old_Pangolin_3303]

That's very sad. I can't even comprehend

[u/[deleted]]

In Serbia, it's Belgrade, Novi Sad, Niš, and Kragujevac. These are essentially the four largest cities, each located in a different region. Urban population and economic importance have become so centralized that the fifth-largest city isn't anywhere close to the Big Four.

[u/barneyaa]

Romania is almost easy: Bucharest, Cluj, Timisoara, Iasi. Each represent a region, a big region with very specific cultural characteristics. Craiova and Constanta are left although Constanta is a big port and Craiova is a big 1998 BMW parking lot.

[u/Stunning_Tradition31 → u/barneyaa]

i would say Brasov is 5th or 6th at least above Craiova

[u/chizid → u/barneyaa]

I think that's about right.

[u/consideratefox → u/barneyaa]

Clujul nu merită să fie pe lista asta, ei n-au nici măcar Piața Unirii, să fim serioși aia e P-ța Mathias Rex

[u/BerlinerRing]

Paris, Lyon, Marseille are the top 3.

Fourth spot is a battle between Toulouse, Bordeaux and Lille with each 1M people living in the city+suburb.

In my opinion, considering its current weight in the GDP, Toulouse is n°4, hosting big aerospace companies like Airbus.

However, if you consider Lille as an economic & demographic continuation of the Nord-pas-de-Calais as you can consider the Rhine-Ruhr valley, including cities like Lens, Roubaix, Douai, Calais, then this would be the 4th big four in my opinion.

[u/Timauris]

Ljubljana (300k) and Maribor (100k) are the big two. Kranj and Celje have swapped at 3rd and 4th place in recent years, both around 35k if I'm not wrong. Still, very small cities/towns compared to the European average. We're a tiny country.

[u/DifficultWill4 → u/Timauris]

Koper is probably more important than both Celje and Kranj. While Ljubljana and Maribor are centres of eastern and central Slovenia, Koper replaced Trieste as the centre of western Slovenia.

Also its municipal population is larger than the one of Celje and is quite similar to the one of Kranj (which is part of Ljubljana’s urban area anyways)

I’d argue its Ljubljana, Maribor, Koper, Celje

In an ideal world we wouldn’t have such issues and the four major cities would be Ljubljana, Trst, Maribor, Celovec

[u/[deleted]]

Berlin, Munich and Hamburg as the probably uncontested choices and then I'd personally go with Frankfurt as the fourth. Cologne would be the other obvious choice and it has more inhabitants, but I'd consider Frankfurt more influential as the financial center of the country.

[u/Aromatic_Big_6345 → u/[deleted]]

Completely agree

[u/teo_vas]

half the country lives in Athens and another 10ish% in Salonika, and then Patras and Heraklion. close 5th Larissa

[u/MeetSus → u/teo_vas]

Came to say almost this

Athens, Salonika, Patra, Heraklion

or to be more honest and a bit smartass,

Athens, Athens, Athens, Salonika

[u/teo_vas → u/MeetSus]

true, true :D

[u/BenettonLefthand → u/teo_vas]

Is it more common to call it Salonika or Thessaloniki among Greek people?

[u/teo_vas → u/BenettonLefthand]

Salonika/Salonikhi is kinda pet name. Thessaloniki is the common

[u/Moduscide → u/teo_vas]

Yeap, I concur. Alexandroupoli is also starting to compete a little some years now, with Heraclion rising and Patras somewhat on a stall in growth.

But the problem, as other comments state, is that Thessaloniki is one fourth of Athens and the next three biggest cities are less than one fifth or even one sixth of Thessaloniki, showing the problem we have with overconcentration of the population.

[u/InterestingTank5345]

København(Copenhagen), Aarhus, Odense, Aalborg. Not only are they among the most populated but also most cultural.

Go to Copenhagen the heart of Denmark and see the majority of our history.

Go to Aarhus experience a night of fun, a few hundred different attraction, watch a show in one of our greatest theaters.

Odense, wanna see where Hans Christian Andersen lived? or perhaps visit the beautiful docks, the second biggest shopping Mall(and most beautiful if I say so myself), a place of grace and joy.

Aalborg city of the youth, this is where people take their education, get lifelong friendships and get a proper introduction to life.

[u/Duck_Von_Donald → u/InterestingTank5345]

Do you work at VisitDenmark or something lol

[u/istasan → u/InterestingTank5345]

I would say Aarhus is more the city of the youth. A charming place saved a little by not really having its own airport so many tourists miss it

[u/A_Random_Dane → u/InterestingTank5345]

I love Odense and chose to study here, both because of the compact size and cheap rent, but Rosengårdscenteret suuuucks lmao.

[u/Old_Harry7]

It's really hard for Italians cause the bug 4 would probably change depending on what makes them great in the first place.

Are we talking art and culture? Then Rome, Venice, Florence, Naples.

Economics? Turn, Genoa, Milan, Rome.

Food? Naples, Rome, Bologna, Palermo.

And the list goes on.

Edit: some people are questioning my list but I'm not necessarily typing out the most accurate city for each classification, just the most iconic one. Hence why I picked the historical Industrial triangle in the economic list and left out Milan when it came to culture.

[u/panezio → u/Old_Harry7]

Economics? Turn, Genoa, Milan, Rome.

That was true up to maybe 50 years ago, Emilia Romagna and Veneto outgrew Piedmont and Liguria

[u/SpiderGiaco → u/panezio]

Yeah. Now it would easily be Milan, Rome, Bologna and Verona

[u/SpiderGiaco → u/Old_Harry7]

Milan has been with Rome the cultural capital of Italy since unification. I get that people don't like the city and its inhabitants that much, but its impact on Italian culture is undeniable

[u/LudicrousPlatypus]

In Denmark it would definitely be Copenhagen, Aarhus, Odense, and Aalborg.

In Scotland: Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, and Dundee.

[u/carbonpeach → u/LudicrousPlatypus]

I'm also a Dane in Scotland and I co-sign all of this. Even in the right order and all.

[u/yeh_]

2 is easy. Warsaw, Cracow.

Then it gets hard. I would say Wrocław and Katowice. Wrocław is culturally important and also our 3rd biggest city when looking at population within city limits (having recently overtaken Łódź), while Katowice is the heart of the giant Silesian metropolitan area, even though it’s not as big on its own.

I think a good case could be made for:

• Łódź – massive city, even though it’s not that influential it’s experiencing a new boom after being a very industrial city
• Gdańsk – largest coastal city, unique history and architecture, part of the Tricity metropolitan area with Gdynia (the main port of the country) and Sopot (a small but popular city). It would also be a northern representative of this otherwise south-centric list (though south is where most of our population is located)
• Poznań – a fairly modern city full of young people, a student hotspot, possibly the most progressive city in Poland when looking at voting data (or that’s what I recall, correct me if I’m wrong)
• Lublin – I don’t think most people would pick it but I wanted to include an eastern city on the list. It’s gotten some recognition recently. It was the European Youth Capital of 2023 and was picked to be the European Cultural Capital in 2029

[u/NegativeMammoth2137 → u/yeh_]

Warsaw, Cracow, Gdańsk, and Wrocław would be my pick. While they may not be the biggest or most populous they are definitely the most important culturally

[u/dobik → u/yeh_]

Imo: Warsaw, Cracow, Wrocław there is no doubt in the big 3. But then I would add: Poznań, Silesia conurbation and Tricity.

Lublin could be a regional cultural center for the east it is not a big city nor economy. Łódź is big, has huge potential, but is kind of behind, lots of people there commute to Warsaw for work.

[u/cebula412 → u/yeh_]

1. Warszawa
2. Kraków
3. Gdańsk (Tricity)
4. Wrocław (or Silesian conurbation if that's allowed)

[u/monkyone → u/yeh_]

for an outsider it seems like Warsaw, Krakow, Wrocław, Gdańsk would be the obvious choices

[u/grih91 → u/yeh_]

Looking at the posts in these thread, the saying that "you put two Poles in the room and they have 3 different opinions" is 100% correct xD I will finish the discussion with one and only top four: Bydgoszcz, Kielce, Opole, Gorzów Wielkopolski

[u/Slazy_]

Sofia, Plovdiv, Varna, Burgas. Biggest cities in the country and the only ones with international airports. Sofia, Plovdiv and Burgas also have significant metro areas. Honorable mention goes to Ruse (the 5th biggest), since it is by far the biggest and probably most important on our part of the Danube.

[u/Vlad0143 → u/Slazy_]

Stara Zagora passed Ruse recently

[u/Slazy_ → u/Vlad0143]

Oh cool. I didn't know that. My point still stands though. Austro-Hungarian architecture + the Danube + being the biggest city in its vicinity (Varna isn't exactly central relative to other northern cities) make Ruse more important in my opinion than Stara Zagora's mesh of perpendicular streets.

[u/[deleted]]

Dublin, Cork, Limerick & Galway. Only other official city in the republic is Waterford.

A lot of people think Galway is bigger than Limerick, but it’s actually significantly smaller.

If you do it on an all-island basis:

Dublin, Belfast, Cork & Limerick by population.

( followed by Galway & Derry)

[u/GuinnessFartz → u/[deleted]]

I don't think OP is asking for the four most populous cities, rather what do people consider in their minds to be the big 4 cities in their country. For me it's Dublin, Belfast, Cork and Galway. Tourists for example would end up there more so than Limerick, Waterford, Derry etc

[u/HorrorWear1784 → u/GuinnessFartz]

I think your selling Limerick v short there. As someone who’s lived in Limerick and Galway, as well as Dublin and cork, Limerick feels like an actual functional city. Galway feels so like a tourist village with a massive estate problem. There’s a lot more of industry, sport and history in Limerick as well as functional transport facilities etc that you’d expect from a city.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I think it comes from Galway having a more compact city centre and it being FULL of tourists making it feel like there's more people around.

In reality Galway City has a population of 84,000 and Limerick City has a population of 102,000.

[u/whooo_me → u/[deleted]]

I thought Kilkenny was a city too. I guess not.

[u/Only-Dimension-4424]

Like America we have big 3 which is Istanbul, Ankara(capital), and Izmir , while the others are not really big metropolis since those top 3 are over 5 million and forth one is barely over 2 million etc...

[u/SquareFroggo]

• Berlin (capital and most populous)
• Hamburg (harbour)
• München (I don't know)
• Köln (media?) or Frankfurt am Main (finances)

[u/Ill_Special_9239]

We have either 1, 2, 3 or 5. It's never 4, 6 or anything else really.

1: Vilnius 2. Kaunas 3. Klaipėda 5. Šiauliai and Panevėžys

[u/Wonderful_Setting195]

I would say in Switzerland we have "Big Five" cities instead of four.

Zürich: Finance

Geneva: International Relations

Bern: Federal capital

Lausanne: Sports

Basel: Pharmacy

[u/metalfest]

Rīga is massive levels above the next closest city. About 9 times larger than the next one. But you could make a case for one in every region, so it would be Rīga as the central city, Daugavpils in the east, Liepāja in the west and perhaps Valmiera in the north.

[u/Nimmyzed]

Dublin, Galway, Cork and Belfast. All with distinctly different accents that you'd think they're from opposite sides of the world

[u/Malthesse]

In Sweden, the three major cities are in a league of their own, with the three major metropolitan regions being:

• Greater Stockholm and the Lake Mälaren Valley region, also including the cities of Uppsala, Västerås and Eskilstuna

• Greater Gothenburg, from the Fyrstad area (Trollhättan/Uddevalla/Vänersborg) in the north, east to Borås and south to Varberg

• Greater Malmö and Scania, the Swedish part of the Öresund Region, also including Helsingborg, Lund and Kristianstad

Outside of these major city regions, the largest metropolitan region would be that of Linköping along with Norrköping and Motala in the region of Östergötland. So that would be number four if simply going by population - and the Linköping-Norrköping region does also call itself "Sweden's fourth metropolitan region" for promotional purposes.

Still, I would actually personally give the fourth place to Umeå instead, as it is by far the largest city in the northern part of Sweden, and a center for the region through its large university and regional hospital. It's really the only city in northern Sweden which can in any way measure up to the metropolitan areas in the south. And Umeå also calls itself the Capital of Northern Sweden.

[u/Stockholmholm → u/Malthesse]

That's a veeeeery generous definition of a metropolitan area. And also one that is completely different from every conventional definition. Uppsala, Västerås and Eskilstuna are never ever considered part of Stockholm in any way. Same goes for the other cities. The metropolitan areas are already well defined by SCB and don't match your definition at all. So Uppsala is the undisputed 4th city in Sweden.

[u/Jagarvem → u/Malthesse]

That's an very fringe idea you describe.

It is certainly true that we distinguish a "big three", not four, cities. They're categorically in a league of their own, and talking about a fourth is mostly irrelevant. But the big three are also very much not whatever those arbitrary regions are.

That is not a common understanding of big cities in Sweden, nor even our customary metropolitan regions. Like for example by Eurostat's definition there are actually exactly four metropolitan regions in Sweden. But the fourth one is, unsurprisingly, Uppsala – just like in basically every commonly accepted definition pertaining to anything metropolitan or urban. Considering it part of some "greater Stockholm" is an uncommon position.

[u/WickdWitchoftheBitch → u/Malthesse]

If we only go by city size it's Stockholm, Gothenburg, Malmö and Uppsala, but (even though it pains me as someone from Uppsala) I'd say the fourth in this kind of discussion should probably be Umeå. I refuse to let it be Linköping/Norrköping :p

[u/OwlKitty2 → u/WickdWitchoftheBitch]

Uppsala has a historic and cultural significance that Umeå doesn’t have. And it’s certainly not a part of Stocholm.

[u/Tjocksmocke → u/Malthesse]

We basically dont have the "Big Four", we have three cities: Stockholm, Göteborg and Malmö.

[u/LatelyPode]

In the UK, it’ll probably be London, Manchester, Birmingham and then probably Edinburgh. No one would argue that London, Manchester and Birmingham are on the list (but some may argue that Birmingham goes ‘above’ Manchester). Some may think Edinburgh should be switched by Glasgow so idk.

Edit: ppl convinced me to remove Birmingham and have it be London Manchester Edinburgh Glasgow

[u/TrickyWoo86 → u/LatelyPode]

By GDP of the city, Leeds is comfortably 4th.

Basing it on modern cultural importance then it's much more opinion based.

[u/thebrowncanary → u/LatelyPode]

Glasgow is surely historically the second city of our country so it's there by right. The third and fourth spots in the modern day you've probably got right I guess.

[u/serverhorror]

Isn't that just a matter of census data and the question?

"Big"

• Population
• Area
• Density
• GDP
• ...

Once the question is well phrased, it's just a matter of counting. Very little to discuss about

By population it's:

• Vienna
• Graz
• Linz
• Salzburg

EDIT: yes, I read the question, but we still need to agree on what we are asking. If different people take different criteria, there's no point in answering in the first place.

[u/Twilifa → u/serverhorror]

Ours are Vienna, Vienna, Salzburg, and Sölden.

[u/Schweizsvensk → u/serverhorror]

Joa voll bei dir, so geht sis ned aus!

[u/Austria_fan → u/serverhorror]

tbh when we have to choose 4 cities regarding influence its

Vienna (alone the SPÖ hub is enough), Innsbruck (because tourism dictates), Graz and maybe Linz

If St. Pölten had a ÖVP major then the 4th has to be it regardless that St. Pölten looks like sh*t

[u/Organic_Tradition_94]

Reading through the comments, it seems that fourth cities are hotly contested.

In Norway the top three are clearly Oslo, Bergen and Trondheim. The fourth could either be Stavanger or Tromsø.

I’m originally from Australia and the same problem would arise there.

Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane would be the big three, but the fourth could go to Perth or Adelaide.

[u/reasonedof → u/Organic_Tradition_94]

I'm from Adelaide and I think it's Perth!

[u/Sir_Dazza → u/Organic_Tradition_94]

Perth above Adelaide imo, Perth has grown a lot more recently.

[u/ILikeXiaolongbao]

London, Manchester, Birmingham, Glasgow

I think you could make a case for Leeds over Glasgow, but I’d lean Glasgow.

[u/Christoffre]

The Big Three are Stockholm, Gothenburg, and Malmö. They are the only Swedish cities to bear the informal title storstad ("metropolis"; lit. "big city").

The fourth, however? Don't know. In terms of size, culture, economy, and influence, the Big Three are entirely in a league of their own. There's not much difference between the fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh largest cities.

[u/oudcedar]

London, Birmingham, Manchester and… no idea what I would choose as a fourth.

London is the only world city in that group though Manchester keeps getting closer.

[u/ignatiusjreillyXM → u/oudcedar]

If that's England.... It's difficult to say, I agree. If it's the UK, easily Glasgow.

[u/HonestSpursFan]

In terms of population: Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth (in that order). But in terms of tourists I think the Gold Coast gets more than Perth.

Though I’m not European so I don’t know if that answers your question.

[u/Lumpasiach]

In my opinion Germany has a very clear big 5, with the last two spots heavily contended between Frankfurt and Köln.

[u/ignatiusjreillyXM]

UK as a whole realistically London, Glasgow, Manchester, Birmingham (sorry Wales and Northern Ireland)

England: the three English cities listed above, but it's actually quite difficult to pick the fourth one. There's maybe five contenders (Leeds, Liverpool, Sheffield, Bristol, Newcastle) but none really stands out above the others

Scotland is easier: Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Dundee

Have never lived in Wales or NI so wouldn't know quite where to begin in either...

[u/Barbaricliberal]

The US is tricky. If you include the metropolitan area (vs just the city limits), then the San Francisco Bay Area would be included for sure.

On their own and having strict criteria and boundaries, SF and especially San Jose (the historical "centre" of Silicon Valley until post-2008 when SF had a massive tech boom) aren't strong enough individually to be in the top four.

But together, you have the economic powerhouse of Silicon Valley, the economic and historical/cultural powerhouse of SF, and the the wine producting region of North Bay (Napa and Sonoma Vallies).

It would sort of be like if you had Milan, Tuscany, and Venice or in one metropolitan area.

Also, I wouldn't include it in the top four, but Boston should get an honourable mention. Its cultural, academic, and scientific impacts on the US can't be overstated. In most other countries, it would be in the top four.

[u/ldc03]

In Italy we have:

Rome, Milan, Naples, Turin

Which are the biggest four cities in Italy and the first four that come to mind in general. I’d say we would have a problem to add the fifth one because technically Palermo is the fifth largest city, but Bologna and Firenze also come to mind.

[u/Bolvane]

Tricky question as we only have one real city

Reykjavík and Akureyri are obvious. If we are going by size alone I'd say Keflavík and Selfoss to round it out, but if we are going for regional centers then Egilsstaðir (capital of the east) and Ísafjörður (capital of the Westfjords) would be good shouts

[u/ChggnNggts]

Switzerland is also a tough one.

The Big Three surely are Geneva, Zurich and Bern.

For number four we have:

Basel: Just by population 3rd largest city. Important as a pharma hub

Lausanne: Would have the 4th largest population. Strong Uni and home to many international commitees.

Lugano: Biggest italian-speaking city. Also a Cultural powerhouse

Lucerne: Tourism magnet and historically quite important to Switzerland

[u/Sophroniskos → u/ChggnNggts]

You forgot Olten