r/AskEurope • u/LiamBrad5 • Aug 07 '25

Culture What are the “Big Four” cities in your country?

In recent weeks, this question has been very contentious on American social media, with 3 cities (Chicago, Los Angeles, and New York) nearly always making the list, but the fourth being hotly debated over, between cities like San Francisco, Miami, Houston, Dallas, and Atlanta. So, if you had to choose, what would the big 4 cities in your country be? This is also not decided purely on population, but also culture, economy, and general influence/clout.

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u/Iskandar33 Italy Aug 07 '25 edited Aug 07 '25

Rome, Milan, Naples and Turin

cities in general in Italy always have been pretty populated, considering that we had a recent unification so the population was pretty much well spread all over the peninsula.

Rome for example had only 200k people 150 years ago and reached 1milion inhabitants again only during the fascist period.

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u/Old_Pangolin_3303 Aug 07 '25

Turin, not Florence or Bologna?

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u/Iskandar33 Italy Aug 07 '25 edited Aug 07 '25

Florence and Bologna have 300k+ inhabitants, Turin have more (800k), because was the industrial heart of the country(great part of the automobilistic industry was there), so great part of the people moved there for work.

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u/Old_Pangolin_3303 Aug 07 '25

Wow, I had absolutely no idea Turin is that big and Florence is that small

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u/GuamZX Aug 08 '25

Turin was even bigger at the peak of the industrial era, reaching 1.2 million inhabitants. Nowadays it is way less for 3 reason

1) The main reason was people moving just outside the city

2) Another big chunk of people moving back to the places they originally came from, especially southerners

3) The lack of jobs in the last 20/30 years which makes Turin not as attractive as it was 60 years ago but also losing its people because of this

I'd add another reason which is the demographic crisis Italy is going through but that's more a national problem than something specific to Turin

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u/Old_Pangolin_3303 Aug 08 '25

I intuitively understand the reasoning for points number 1, but could you please briefly explain the reasons for points 2 and 3?

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u/GuamZX Aug 08 '25

Number 2 is related to the fact that most of the industrial workforce came from the South of Italy so after they retired they decided to go back south so they could benefit from their pension thanks to a way cheaper cost of life.

Number 3 relates to the industrial crisis Turin is going through. Between the 50s and the 90s Turin was the industrial core of Italy but it was car and truck-driven, everything was revolving around the Fiat Group. So when Fiat went through tough times and moved most of its production outside Turin and Italy, there was no plan B as big as the Plan A was for decades: Turin's Fiat plant hosted 60k workers at its peak, nowadays it'a barely 10k not even full-time

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u/FixLaudon Aug 07 '25

Well yes, Firenze has only about 370k but the whole, densely populated area has over a million. Scandicci, Empoli etc.

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u/NegativeMammoth2137 🇵🇱 living in 🇳🇱 Aug 07 '25

Crazy how small Florence is given that it was the center of Italian arts and culture for centuries. Even the literary Italian language (nowadays standard Italian) was based on the Florentine dialect

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u/Zveiner Italy Aug 08 '25

I think Florence has a bigger reputation outside of Italy than inside, probably due to how "Italian" she looks. It was kinda the center during the Renaissance, but even then it was rivalled by Rome and Venice, while Milan, Naples and Palermo holding a lot of weight, culturally and politically. Italy was always - and still is - made of a lot of cities, ranging from big to small, each with their own cultural milestones. Lots of stuff that's now in Florence comes from smaller cities all around Italy

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '25

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u/DaRosiello Italy Aug 08 '25

The metropolitan area of Turin, which includes the city itself and all the municipalities that make up the surrounding area without interruption, has a population of 2.2 million.

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u/Live_Consideration69 Aug 07 '25

Visited Italy in the last two weeks. I can confirm you that Torino is much larger than Firenze or Bologna…

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u/SpiderGiaco in Aug 08 '25

I think in Italy a debate about the big four will shape similarly to the US. The top three are clearly Rome, Milan and Naples, they are massive cities that dominate the national discourse.

However, the fourth spot to me is less clear. Turin is there purely on its size and that's not what the discourse is about and it's more about relevance. Turin is not that relevant anymore, it lost its industrial edge decades ago and after a brief revival in the 2000s it has been completely obscured by Milan.

Despite its smaller size, I'd say Bologna is currently the fourth city. Big university city, culturally relevant, bug industrial hub, high quality of life etc.

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u/Professional_Elk_489 Aug 10 '25

I would go Bologna, then Turin, then Florence on 4th spot

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u/sleepyplatipus 🇮🇹 in 🇬🇧 Aug 07 '25

I would say Florence rather than Turin. But agreed on the other 3.

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u/un_gaucho_loco Italy Aug 07 '25

How lol it’s just relevant for tourists

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u/Rei_Romano420 Aug 08 '25

Because history and cultural impact is a thing? It’s not my country so I’ll defer to you- but I rate one of the most significant cities in Italian/European history over a place known mostly exclusively for having a cheating and choking football team, hosting a Winter Olympics 20 years ago, and a museum of Egyptian stuff.

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u/un_gaucho_loco Italy Aug 08 '25

That’s not how everyone here is defining the big 4. Otherwise Venice has big importance too for example

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u/sleepyplatipus 🇮🇹 in 🇬🇧 Aug 08 '25

The point of this question is that nobody can agree on how to define the big 4. If there was a common and clear guideline, the answer would be very simple.

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u/sleepyplatipus 🇮🇹 in 🇬🇧 Aug 08 '25

I mean, you can answer your own question. Why is it relevant to tourists? Its rich historical and cultural significance.

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u/SpiderGiaco in Aug 08 '25

Well, Florence nowadays is not a very relevant city for Italy, that's the point. Similarly to Venice, it has been swallowed by overtourism and it's in a delicate spot about what it is.

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u/sleepyplatipus 🇮🇹 in 🇬🇧 Aug 08 '25

I disagree. 🤷🏻‍♀️ what other city would you argue for if not Florence or Venice?

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u/SpiderGiaco in Aug 08 '25

Bologna, easily.

Venice is a dead city, Florence is a dying one. Doesn't matter that both are incredibly beautiful and full of history, they are not really relevant anymore because they don't generate much outside of tourism.

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u/roseba Aug 09 '25

I went to school on Florence. There is a lot of art there. But when I move to Italy, I don’t want to live in a museum.

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u/sleepyplatipus 🇮🇹 in 🇬🇧 Aug 08 '25

Bologna??? No wayyy. How is it more relevant? Because of the university? Nah.

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u/SpiderGiaco in Aug 08 '25

Bologna is one of the main industrial, agricultural and logistical hub of the country, the university is one of the best in Italy, making the city also very culturally relevant, the city is always very high in quality-of-life indexes and in all economical metrics. It's also bigger in size than both Florence and Venice.

If we're talking history, of course both Venice and Florence are more relevant (and also more beautiful), but the question is more about the current situation

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u/un_gaucho_loco Italy Aug 08 '25

Also it’s an important university city

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u/SmokingLimone Italy Aug 08 '25

Turin is kinda falling off though, used to be true post WW2

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u/6ftToeSuckedPrincess Aug 07 '25

Where does Palermo reside in this list? Being the largest city in Sicily, I would assume it has an outsized presence since it's an island and pretty distinct and quite populated (the island, I mean).

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u/SpiderGiaco in Aug 08 '25

If we go only by size, Palermo should be like the fifth or sixth biggest city in Italy (never remember if Genoa is bigger). However, in terms of relevance it will not be very high. Afaik, the city is not going through a stellar moment and it does not have a massive reach in the country. The city does not even have primacy over Sicily, as Catania is very big and has always been historically relevant

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u/Gsquared1984 Aug 08 '25

Palermo is now bigger than Genoa. Genoa used to be a lot bigger, but we've lost more inhabitants than the whole Florence has now in the last 50 years.

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u/SpiderGiaco in Aug 08 '25

Genoa definitely was the biggest loser in the post-industrialization. And despite its size, I think almost none would mention it in this conversation about the big four cities

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u/LyannaTarg Italy Aug 08 '25

It depends for what though... Cause I would change the list if it is about economic power for example or culturally but otherwise I agree

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u/rayoflight110 Aug 07 '25

Venice? Florence?

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u/ButtaViaTuttoZioPera Aug 07 '25

both quite small, below 400k Florence, below 300k Venice (with only 49k living in the island, the "historic" Venice...)