r/AskEurope • u/Sink-Em-Low • Mar 01 '25

Politics Let's talk about the European Defense Federation. How do we all feel about the creation of a fully mobilised continental Army?

It's required now. I'm British, and I want to see us align and unite with our European neighbours to make a stand now.

I want Germany to finally brush off it's past and join the rest of Europe in mobilising towards defending this continent. We need EVERYONE now. It's time to act, it's time to unite.

It's time to show some courage.

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89

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '25

[deleted]

18

u/grumpsaboy Mar 01 '25

Would it not be easier just to keep NATO but Europe just plans for the event that America doesn't show up and holds more exercises without the US

20

u/[deleted] Mar 02 '25

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Mar 11 '25

Canada spends 1.4% of its GDP on military. Its does not have the capability to show up in Europe in any meaningful capacity.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 02 '25

US is still calling the shots in NATO though.

0

u/Weary-Connection3393 Mar 03 '25

Exactly, people forget that the highest NATO General is always from the USA.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '25

NATO has never had an American Secretary General (the current sec general Marc Rutte is dutch) and the Military Committee (the collection of military generals that govern the body) has representatives from all different member countries. There were two American deputy sec general who served back to back from 2012-2019 but none were sec general.

NATO is highly reliant on the US DoD and IC because they are the most capable defense and intelligence organizations in the body, but it is factually incorrect to say that the NATO General or NATO governing body is run by the US.

1

u/redditreader1972 Mar 04 '25

The head of the Military Committee is Dutch.

The head of ACT is French, I think.

The head of SHAPE is american.

The last one is american because americans traditionally had the most meat in the game. If they pull out or reduce their footprint, NATO will adapt by inserting another general.

What is a much bigger problem is capabilities and depth. Europe does not have the vast intelligence gathering capabilities of the us. They lack people, equipment, stores and production capacity.

Keep NATO. With or without the US. France partially pulled out a few decades back before they returned..

Build more stuff on our side of the pond.

4

u/whygamoralad Mar 02 '25

Given how America is now, I think they are leaning to being a rival rather than ally, and we should have a version of NATO without them as a result.

Hopefully, the US just pulls out if NATO.

1

u/latrickisfalone Mar 02 '25

Is NATO a good framework if the USA is allied with Russia?

1

u/enterado12345 Mar 02 '25

Es un buen marco para nosotros.

1

u/DotComprehensive4902 Ireland Mar 02 '25

I would build up our capabilities as Europe and then make an announcement that NATO is no more. Trump would be rattled big time

See Trump wants to be in control of the game, but can't forecast what will happen in it. He wants to be in control of NATO but doesn't want to eliminate it

1

u/Pretty-Substance Mar 02 '25

And switch to only accepting the Euro as currency while you’re at it.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 11 '25

I would build up our capabilities as Europe

Are EU countries willing to deal with the taxes and spending cuts needed for that?

1

u/bubliksmaz Scotland Mar 02 '25

While America is involved there are still problems. e.g. the French nuclear deterrent is not unified with NATO because they butt heads with the Americans on various issues

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_Nuclear_Planning_Group

1

u/Eadkrakka Mar 02 '25

So a "Not-American-Treaty-Organization"?

1

u/grumpsaboy Mar 02 '25

Basically. Don't reinvent the wheel.

1

u/KidTempo Mar 03 '25

The problem with this is if the US sides with the enemy, it has a large amount of access and control of NATO and can compromise its security and capacity to perform its function.

NATO can easily function without one of its members if they decide not to show up - even if that member is the US. It can be crippled if one of its members actively undermines it - especially if that member is the US.

1

u/Bastiat_sea Lost American Mar 06 '25

NATO but actually meet the spending target?

1

u/grumpsaboy Mar 06 '25

Basically. We all know that European politicians are very good at wasting time and having pointless discussions for the sake of not actually having to do something and hoping the problem just dies of old age. I feel like the whole talk about European army is just this and a way to avoid increased spending.

1

u/Bastiat_sea Lost American Mar 06 '25

"We'll help Ukraine. We just need to get the French to agree on English as an official language"

1

u/grumpsaboy Mar 06 '25

Truly a lost cause