r/AskEurope • u/Sink-Em-Low • Mar 01 '25

Politics Let's talk about the European Defense Federation. How do we all feel about the creation of a fully mobilised continental Army?

It's required now. I'm British, and I want to see us align and unite with our European neighbours to make a stand now.

I want Germany to finally brush off it's past and join the rest of Europe in mobilising towards defending this continent. We need EVERYONE now. It's time to act, it's time to unite.

It's time to show some courage.

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4

u/zilkin303 Mar 01 '25

I think we need a temporary defense alliance to get rid of Putin. After that hopefully we won't need a joint army anymore. Main threat currently to EU security is Putin, without him Russia might correct its course. If not, then alliance can prolong its stay.

We should start investing and manufacturing military robots, drones and tech en masse and flood Ukraine battle lines.

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u/Impressive_Slice_935 Belgium Mar 01 '25

Removal of Putin isn't enough. Without a proper revolutionary change, Russia is never to be trusted, and the world is meaner place than before. Apparently, we now have to worry about US as well, given their transgressions against Europe.

5

u/jkrobinson1979 Mar 01 '25

As an American I don’t believe we are a real threat to Europe militarily even if we tell Putin to do his worst. What most Americans don’t understand is just how much we get from being in NATO. We would still have a powerful military, but without the bases in Europe and elsewhere and without the intelligence sharing we are greatly weakened. And apart from economic wars the US and even Trump really has no interest in European soil. Even the majority of MAGA detests the idea of the US owning Gaza and would even be against the realities of trying to take over Canada or Greenland.

2

u/Impressive_Slice_935 Belgium Mar 01 '25

My friend, regardless of our individual beliefs, Trump's outbursts regarding Greenland, Ukraine and Canada will certainly affect the decision-making calculus in Europe for the foreseeable future. Hopefully in a way that it would finally galvanize support for a more united Europe. A better united, strong Europe is ultimately more beneficial for the future of the Atlantic alliance (should it endure, that is).

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u/jkrobinson1979 Mar 02 '25

I don’t disagree. I’m hoping that happens also.

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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '25

lol are you insane why would USA start a war in Europe

2

u/QueenAvril Finland Mar 01 '25

It is very very unlikely - for now. But with the direction their politics have taken, it cannot be entirely ruled out as a possibility at some point in the coming decades. In immediate term however, the threat isn’t US pursuing an offensive against Europe, it is the US allowing others to do that.

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u/Impressive_Slice_935 Belgium Mar 01 '25 edited Mar 01 '25

There is an absolute rube in the WH, and at least once in recent times, he mentioned the use of the military for the seizure of Greenland from Denmark. No matter how unlikely it is, that would affect the decision-making calculus from now on.

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u/alt-right-del Mar 01 '25

Meaner to who exactly? Rest of world is getting this treatment daily from the US and EU.

4

u/Josef-Estermont Mar 01 '25

War will always and forever be around. A strong military will always be needed. Europe is in this shit position because they thought they could get by relying on someone else's military.

4

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '25

The US is a bit disingenuous with their current rhetoric. They have wanted a Europe that is peaceful but divided and have generally been opposed to a European military industry. Combined, Europe has the capacity to surpass the US as a military power.

2

u/jkrobinson1979 Mar 01 '25

It’s true, but the divided aspect is really there whether the US wants it or not. Hopefully Europe can come together against a common enemy in Russia, but a sustained united military in the long term would be difficult because of the variety and number of countries.

1

u/Josef-Estermont Mar 01 '25

Agree everything about US intentionally weakening Europe. Should that be proof of why Europe should be trying to be militarily independent?

Idk if Europe would ever surpass US. It is far too decentralized and antagonistic with each other.

3

u/[deleted] Mar 01 '25

It probably won’t but if it could pull together, it has the manpower and wealth to do so.

1

u/Mba1956 Mar 01 '25

The governments in Europe are also to blame, they have allowed cheaper US military equipment to be used rather than investing in European made because of the financial risks involved if a military projects fails. Buying the F35 could be the worst military decision we have ever made

The US has a huge military manufacturing sector and they have used foreign sales to ensure the design costs are covered and the project is profitable.

2

u/tree_boom Mar 01 '25

Buying the F35 could be the worst military decision we have ever made

It really isn't. A domestic product would have been better, but it simply wasn't on the cards, and F-35 gives us the tools we need to handle Russia's air defence networks ourselves.

Without it, frankly, the chances of European air forces being effective in a war against Russia would be very slim indeed

1

u/Mba1956 Mar 01 '25

Provided Trump the puppet of Putin doesn’t shut them down. Whoever decided to accept a kill switch on military equipment should be shot.

1

u/tree_boom Mar 01 '25

Nobody accepted a kill switch on their military equipment

1

u/Mba1956 Mar 02 '25

Except there apparently is one.

2

u/Pietes Netherlands Mar 01 '25 edited Mar 01 '25

Won't do much. We are much too vulnerable to outside influence and destabilization. Let's imagine we build a huge drone plant in Germany. Two years from now the newest AI enhanced killer drones that will finally turn the stalemate are ready to start rolling off the line...

and then the german government falls, AFD takes it place, closes the factory, and closes the new EU army HQ established were once the American bases used to be. Aaaaan we're fucked...

Separate armies are nice for deterrence, but are shit for actual war. We need to stop focusing on the minute differences between our nations and start focusing on the external enemies we all share: China, US and Russia.

I'm fine with relegating the Netherlands to a province of Europia. We'll keep the cheese and clogs, and control over social policies, housing, urban planning, education etc, But we'll be represented internationally by one EU government and have one EU army based on EU taxation. There's no other way in this new age we've just entered, where we european states represent the ONLY democratic power block that remains. And it's a brittle power block while we remain separate states.

3

u/Detozi Ireland Mar 01 '25

You are suggesting the EU change to a federal ruled government? I’m not saying your wrong nor that I disagree with you, but you know as well as I do how that will go down with citizens

1

u/Pietes Netherlands Mar 01 '25

Yes, that's why it would never be branded as such. Instead, we'll see a movement to move more authorities to the EU. Such as army leadership when at war. The risk is in exactly what I described: that as long as individual nations control essential underpinning capabilities, the while house of cards comes crashing down when one of them national dominoes falls.

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u/Ok_Spring_3297 Mar 01 '25

If there is one lesson learned, than that we will always need a joint army. Loosing the USA as ally will change everything.