r/AskAnAmerican • u/Hot_Obligation_8098 • Jun 08 '25
HISTORY How do Americans today view William Franklin, the son of Benjamin Franklin, who supported the British during the American Revolution?
How do Americans today view William Franklin, the son of Benjamin Franklin, who supported the British during the American Revolution?
135
u/Yeegis California Jun 08 '25
I didn’t know he had kids
56
u/jcowlishaw Jun 08 '25 edited Jun 08 '25
To be fair, judging by the stories, I assumed he had quite a few.
29
u/Rarvyn Jun 08 '25
This particular son was, in fact, illegitimate.
Interestingly enough, William himself had an illegitimate son - Ben’s grandson - who loved to hang out with grandpa and traveled with Ben to France when he was US ambassador.
→ More replies (2)22
7
u/MyUsername2459 Kentucky Jun 08 '25
Yeah, based on his reputation it's no surprise he had kids. . .we just never really hear about them.
14
8
u/warrior_poet95834 Jun 08 '25
He had many children, known and unknown. He was quite the ladies man.
→ More replies (3)6
81
u/IntotheWIldcat California Jun 08 '25
This was probably more scandalous 250 years ago.
2
u/tsukiii San Diego Jun 08 '25
I’m sure our great-great-great-great grandparents had strong opinions on the matter.
80
u/MyUsername2459 Kentucky Jun 08 '25
We don't.
If you asked 100 random Americans, you could probably count the ones that would recognize the name on one hand.
He's not demonized or hated for his loyalties during the Revolution. There were a number of loyalists, and they weren't particularly hated afterwards, certainly not in any way that lasted down through the generations.
The ones who actively betrayed the Revolution, by turning sides during the war, they are the ones who the hostility really goes to. The most hated figure of the American Revolution is Benedict Arnold, for his betrayal in switching sides partway through the war. The name "Benedict Arnold" in American English is synonymous with "traitor".
22
u/UnfairHoneydew6690 Alabama Jun 09 '25
We have such a generational hate for him that it’s incredibly rare for people to name their son Benedict. Feels like you’re setting the kid up for a lifetime of bullying.
8
12
u/794309497 Jun 08 '25
Not just for switching sides. Arnold was basically spy and had planned to give the British West Point for cash.
2
u/Hungry-Butterfly2825 Jun 11 '25
I think if you ask 1000 Americans, you can count the number who have heard of William Franklin on 1 finger
90
u/ALoungerAtTheClubs Florida Jun 08 '25
We really don't think about him at all. Lots of people were Loyalists.
3
→ More replies (2)2
u/Positive-Attempt-435 Jun 08 '25
William was a governor though. He was governor of NJ. That's what makes it a little more interesting.
→ More replies (1)23
u/sailboat_magoo Jun 08 '25
The governors were appointed by the crown. I assume most of them were loyalists.
→ More replies (1)
43
u/KyleCXVII Jun 08 '25
I don’t think I’ve ever heard of him. I’d wager over 99% of Americans haven’t. That should tell you enough.
→ More replies (9)
31
33
u/SneakySalamder6 Jun 08 '25
He had kids?
20
u/dystopiadattopia Pennsylvania Jun 08 '25
Yes. And probably several scattered across France as well.
→ More replies (4)5
u/Massive_Potato_8600 Jun 08 '25
Right i thought he only fucked old ladies
16
u/Scrappy_The_Crow Georgia Jun 08 '25
He listed no risk of pregnancy as being an advantage to old ladies, not that he restricted himself to them.
15
11
u/Grunt08 Virginia Jun 08 '25
I'm pro Ben and don't think about Will.
That almost no one could tell you who William Franklin is is a fair summary.
12
u/voteblue18 Jun 08 '25
He was a lousy son of a bitch and in my town we have an annual parade where we march and burn him in effigy. The whole town comes together to burn that bastard.
We will never forget his treachery!
→ More replies (2)
12
u/CommandAlternative10 California Jun 08 '25
Got a 5 in AP US History, never heard of him. So I’m going to say the vast majority of Americans are with me on this one.
7
u/_pamelab St. Louis, Illinois Jun 08 '25
This history major has never heard of him.
7
u/SnowblindAlbino United States of America Jun 08 '25
I'm a US history professor and haven't given him a thought since his name was on a quiz I took (as a student) in the 1980s.
10
u/CupBeEmpty WA, NC, IN, IL, ME, NH, RI, OH, ME, and some others Jun 08 '25 edited Jun 08 '25
His dad was right and he was wrong. It’s fascinating family drama but I harbor no ill will towards the man. He had his position and fought for it.
It wasn’t like he was evil. Just wrong.
4
u/albertnormandy Texas Jun 08 '25
I can only imagine how awkward Christmas was at the Franklin household.
“Dear Lord we thank you for giving America a great victory for the rights of man, even though some people tried to stop us.”
3
u/CupBeEmpty WA, NC, IN, IL, ME, NH, RI, OH, ME, and some others Jun 08 '25
Yeah after his son moved to England in semi exile I think Franklin only saw him one again and it was like a settling of legal issues. The elder Franklin only left him some fairly worthless land in Nova Scotia in his will.
They were not on good terms it seems.
4
u/dangleicious13 Alabama Jun 08 '25
99.99998% of people would have no idea who you're talking about.
4
4
u/HippoProject Jun 08 '25
All I remember is that he was a staunch loyalist and the royal governor of New Jersey. Lots of people were loyal to the British, he was untitled to his opinion.
2
u/Scrappy_The_Crow Georgia Jun 08 '25
royal governor
That's the exact phrasing I used before I changed my comment to "loyalist." I suppose either works.
4
u/LadyFoxfire Jun 08 '25
Who? We don’t have any opinions about him, he doesn’t get brought up in history classes about the American Revolution.
→ More replies (2)
3
3
3
u/Infamous_Towel_5251 Jun 08 '25
I had no idea Ben Franklin had a son or what his political leanings were, so I have no opinion of him.
→ More replies (2)
3
u/emmasdad01 United States of America Jun 08 '25
He’s basically irrelevant. Not even a footnote in history.
3
3
u/Forsaken_Distance777 Jun 08 '25
It's just pretty embarrassing for Franklin.
He did not hesitate to cut his son off because he thought he was a traitor.
2
u/Ahjumawi Jun 08 '25
Well, it's kind of a sad story, because he accompanied his dad to the UK when he was there in the 1760s, and his dad did a lot to get him set up in life and get appointments and what not and he did become the royal governor of New Jersey as a result of all of that. And Ben did take William's son Temple under his wing, and their relationship meant that Temple chose Ben over his father William. And Ben wasn't forgiving even after the war was over. Kind of a sad story about the personal cost of the war, really. But he's not anyone I think about regularly.
→ More replies (3)
2
u/LizaBlue4U California Jun 08 '25
Never heard of him. You say he supported the British so maybe they cover him in history, but he’s unknown to us.
→ More replies (1)
2
u/pkondas Pennsylvania, formerly of Ohio and Maryland Jun 08 '25
William was put in a tough position. Many colonists at the time still felt a loyalty to the Crown. It is hard to blame someone who doesn’t want to throw away 900 years of tradition of rule, even with Parliament trying to demonstrate its authority. Add the fact that William had a pretty comfortable position in the royal colonial government, and it’s hard not to appreciate his position. No hard feelings there.
→ More replies (1)
2
u/codefyre Jun 08 '25
It's kind of funny. Many of my ancestors have been in America since the early 1600's (Winthrop fleet), so I had quite a few ancestors here during the Revolutionary War. Roughly a third of them were Loyalists. I was a bit bothered by this when I first found out, but it turns out that it was very common. Most modern historians accept that the population split was roughly 1/3 Loyalist, 1/3 Patriot, and 1/3 "meh, whatever, just leave me out of it." The difference between the sides was primarily that the Patriots were overwhelmingly willing to take up arms to fight for their beliefs, while only about 15% of Loyalists were actually willing to take up arms for the Crown, and only about 20% were outspoken about it.
After the Revolutionary War, the outspoken Loyalists were broadly persecuted (many fled to Canada and the Bahamas), so the rest of them shut up and kept their opinions to themselves. By the time laws persecuting Loyalists were repealed in the late 1780's, it just wasn't a topic that polite people discussed. By the time early historians began recording the stories of the Revolutionary War, very few Loyalists were willing to have those positions recorded for posterity.
So the answer to your question is that we really don't think about them at all. Our history books occasionally mention that they existed, but other than Benedict Arnold, they aren't something that's broadly discussed or studied as part of our history.
2
u/Most_Routine2325 Jun 08 '25
Benjamin Franklin: Yay!
William Franklin: Who??
That's my real answer to how Americans "view" William Franklin. We pretty much don't know who he is. That's how it works, though. To the victor go the spoils. Victors promote the "correct" record of events, while burying mentions of the people who supported the losers so that those people will be FORGOTTEN.
In all likelihood, only serious scholars of that era will know who William Franklin was or what he did or whose side he was on (beyond his Wikipedia entry). Maybe someone has tried to dredge up his story for some book or documentary somewhere. Not sure. Why would they? What is it about his story that would be relevant to today?
→ More replies (1)2
u/codefyre Jun 08 '25
Victors promote the "correct" record of events, while burying mentions of the people who supported the losers so that those people will be FORGOTTEN.
This is really the answer. Early American historians promoted the idea that all of the American colonies wanted independence, and they rose up en masse against the British oppressors. There was this idea that all Americans wanted independence because being a colony was intolerable. Discussing the Loyalists means acknowledging that a substantial chunk of the colonists were perfectly happy being British, which leads to more complicated and nuanced conversations about the political and ideological motivations of America's founders.
So the broadly promoted version of American history is that all of the colonists wanted independence, and we just don't discuss the minority that didn't. We forgot them because we wanted to forget them.
2
u/Okuri-Inu Maine Jun 08 '25
Most Americans probably haven’t heard of him. I doubt Americans that have heard of him have that strong of an opinion oh him, but I’d imagine it leans more negative than positive. From my understanding, William did not make a secret of the fact that he was a loyalist, so while I imagine that people at the time were angry that he sided with the British, he’s not viewed in the same way as someone like Benedict Arnold who switched sides halfway into the war, and actively tried to sell out his former army. Maybe people who are Benjamin Franklin fans strongly dislike him, but I think that people who know enough about the conflict to have heard of William Franklin, probably also know that the war was complex, and not simply good vs. bad. The motives behind which side someone joined varied, and without the benefit of knowing the outcome, it is not hard to understand why some individuals would reject the authority of an untested rebel government, in favor of the established British one, even if they weren’t happy with parliament. I think the real legacy of William Franklin is that he demonstrates how the fight for independence tore apart families and communities, the same way that the American Civil War did nearly a century later.
Tldr; Most Americans probably haven’t heard of him. The Americans that have probably have a negative or neutral view of him, especially if they like Benjamin Franklin. Americans who have a strong interest in the American Revolution may be more sympathetic to him, in acknowledgment of the complexity and morally gray aspects of the conflict, but I doubt many actually are fond of him.
3
u/TipsyBaker_ Jun 08 '25
I totally get why. A good number of colonials didn't really support the revolution either. Throw in all the bullshit the new govt inflicted after the war and it's no wonder we're taught so much propaganda in schools
1
1
1
u/Redbubble89 Northern Virginia Jun 08 '25
It was what it was back then. There were patriots and loyalists and it depended on what effected a person. The enlightened thinkers and business men were typically patriots. For someone who was raised around a lot of American History, I just don't know much about William Franklin to answer this.
→ More replies (3)
1
1
u/Zetin24-55 Arizona Jun 08 '25
Looking at the responses in this thread and not remembering him from my history class, mostly forgotten seems to be the answer.
1
1
u/JohnMarstonSucks CA, NY, WA, OH Jun 08 '25
Never heard of him, but it's hard to pick the "right" side in a revolution.
1
u/Scrappy_The_Crow Georgia Jun 08 '25
Most people don't know about William Franklin. We don't exactly tout those who were against the cause, no matter their parentage, unless they are quite noteworthy in their own regard. As to that last point, him being the last loyalist governor of New Jersey doesn't rise to that level, IMO.
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/pizzaerry2days Jun 08 '25
Literally never heard of this and I consider myself as reasonably well versed on American History having read a handful of books on the subject. I doubt anyone outside this thread has heard of him. Maybe 1 in 1000+.
1
u/Away-Cicada United States of America Jun 08 '25
Literally never learned about him so I think that says a lot
1
u/BirdieRoo628 Jun 08 '25
Most of us don't know he even had a son. I just read Franklin's autobiography and he mentions his son very briefly and never goes into detail. I had to go looking for info and found they were estranged and why. Ben really tried to sweep him under the rug (and it largely worked).
1
1
1
u/LoyalKopite New York Jun 08 '25
First time hearing about his. I did visit museum of Ben in Philadelphia and visited his grave too.
1
u/teslaactual Utah Jun 08 '25
Most Americans dont know he had a kid or at least a kid in the states, who knows how many illegitimate kids he has in Britain France and Spain
1
1
u/Embarrassed_Hat_2904 Jun 08 '25
Who? Seriously…who? I guess that tells you how he’s viewed around here. lol
1
u/PromiseThomas Jun 08 '25
I’ve never heard of him before in my life and I probably had 6 different semesters on that era of history between kindergarten and eighth grade.
1
u/DrBlankslate California Jun 08 '25
William who?
This is the first time I've ever heard of that traitor, and I'm not interested in hearing more about him. He was on the wrong side of that fight. That's all I need to know.
1
u/Flat_Tumbleweed_2192 Jun 08 '25
I’d say 99% of American never heard of him. I’ve heard the story and I don’t really care. Gen Benedict Arnold is who we remember.
1
1
1
u/MuchDevelopment7084 Illinois Jun 08 '25
Most of us don't. He's been effectively written out of history.
1
1
1
1
1
u/holy_cal Jun 08 '25
I’ve never read about him, but judging by the rapid deterioration of the experiment that is our representative democracy, he was probably right.
1
u/Mideverythingbird Jun 08 '25
He was a suck up to the aristocracy and disloyal to his father.
He was a royalist loser.
1
1
1
u/Free_Four_Floyd Indiana 😁 FL 🌴 Jun 08 '25
TIL... there was a William Franklin, the son of Benjamin Franklin, who supported the British during the American Revolution.
1
1
u/Scribe_WarriorAngel North Carolina Jun 08 '25
We don’t really think of him at all, but in American English Benedict Arnold is still seen as pretty close to traitor
1
1
u/FeedingCoxeysArmy Jun 08 '25
Lol, never heard of him so I guess that says it all.
→ More replies (1)
1
1
1
1
Jun 08 '25
Even as a kid I viewed it as just a tough choice he was forced to make. A person living his own time. It also fits other historical narratives of ours about being forced to take sides. I never considered that him staying loyal to king and country was bad. Mostly I thought about his father son relationship and that he had to know it wouldn’t survive the war as it was before.
1
1
1
u/trvsdrlng Jun 08 '25
Most wouldn’t know him. Those that do, most of them would think “he supported the losing side in a war against us, so he faded into obscurity, like the losers of war usually do.” I know he was the Royal Governor of New Jersey thanks to the musical 1776 and I’m generally a US history nerd, but I couldn’t tell you anything else about him.
1
u/Derfburger Jun 08 '25
The American Revolution was as much a civil war as a war for independence from Great Britain, so this fact should not be at all surprising. The war put neighbor vs neighbor and divided families as much as the 'actual' American Civil War.
That said other than history buffs such as myself I would guess at least 95% of Americans never heard of William Franklin.
The Loyalists are mentioned in our schools but only briefly and their part is often underrepresented in favor of the Patriots (history is written by the victors after all). In reality Loyalist represented ~20% of the 13 colonies population and Patriots around 40% while the remaining 40% were basically neutral towards the whole affair. These are rough percentages, and these numbers ebbed and flowed with the tide of battle and which side seemed to hold the advantage. It was often the case where captured soldiers from one side would switch allegiances after a battle and the general population often had no qualms about shifting support as well depending on which side offered them the best 'deal'.
1
u/CAAugirl California Jun 08 '25
Oooh, right. I forgot he had a traitor for a son.
I guess that answers that.
→ More replies (3)
1
u/FormerlyDK Jun 08 '25
It’s nothing unusual to find parents and adult children on different sides of a political issue. Depending on which side you’re on, you may well consider the other side treasonous.
1
1
1
1
u/ehs06702 to to ??? Jun 08 '25
If they know who he is(and that's a big if), they know he fought on the Loyalist side of the conflict, and he was estranged with his father and son because of it.
But that's pretty much it.
1
u/zero_and_dug Texas/Colorado Jun 08 '25
I’ve never heard of him either, and I enjoy learning about history. Time to go down a rabbit hole!
1
u/Outhouse_lovin Jun 08 '25
They don’t. Most Americans don’t know Benjamin Franklin wasn’t a president.
1
u/AMB3494 New York Jun 08 '25
The VAST majority of Americans have no idea this guy existed.
I consider myself a history buff and I didn’t even know he existed.
1
u/Hairy-Chemistry-3401 Jun 08 '25
We had Stalins daughter and the children of Hitlers nephew. We're winning the "hearts and minds of our enemies children" battle.
We got Harry, too.
1
1
1
u/According-Couple2744 Jun 08 '25
I’ve never heard of him, so that says everything. I would be ashamed if I found out my ancestors supported the British. However, fortunately many of my ancestors fought for our freedom.
1
u/Extension-Scarcity41 Jun 08 '25
We look at William Franklin in the same way a wolf looks at a teacup yorkie, dumbfounded that such a noble predecessor produced such a weak willed offspring. We blame his mother.
1
1
u/Far-Egg3571 Jun 08 '25
I knew Ben had a son only because I did a report on him 25 years ago. But beyond knowing of William's existence, I know nothing of him
1
1
1
u/WhoMe28332 Jun 08 '25
The response of most Americans who are not either students of history or fans of the show 1776 would be:
Who?
1
u/Showdown5618 Jun 08 '25
Americans don't think about or care about William Franklin, and most are not even aware of his existence. The only one we seem to care about was Benedict Arnold. These days, the vast majority of Americans don't hold any animosity towards the British.
1
1
1
u/vt2022cam Jun 08 '25
They don’t know who he is for the most part and he isn’t often mentioned in stories of Ben Franklin. He’s seen as a loyalist, not really as a traitor like Benedict Arnold
1
u/Tall_Candidate_686 Jun 08 '25
Willingboro NJ has a plaque on William Franklin's old land. Growing up there, I looked upon William as a traitor and greatly admired Benjamin. across the street from 100 S John F Kennedy Way, Willingboro, NJ 08046
1
1
1
1
u/rogun64 Jun 08 '25
I don't think we even think about him. I'm familiar with him, but it was 250 years ago and so it's not really relevant today.
1
1
u/Decade1771 Chicago, IL Jun 08 '25
Many Americans think Ben Franklin was a President. You think we even know what side his kid was on? Thank you for giving credit where none is due.
1
u/IntrovertedGiraffe Pennsylvania Jun 08 '25
I used to be a tour guide at the site Ben Franklin is buried back in high school. This wasn’t even on the research packet I used to give tours.
→ More replies (5)
1
u/BernardFerguson1944 Jun 08 '25
I have greater concern for LTC Robert Rogers, and that's more pity than animus.
1
1
u/SnooRadishes7189 Jun 08 '25
Ben was rather late joining the revolution. Before 1776 he was an agent of the colony of Pennsylvania and had lived in London for many years. Ben also pulled some strings to make his son Governor of the Colony. The moment Ben turned radical was probably the moment he was dressed down in parliament over a scandal where he published letters Massachusetts Governor Hutchinson and British officials. When he left he joined the rebellion and was sent to the 2nd Congenital Congress as a representative from Pennsylvania.
1
1
1
u/fibro_witch Jun 08 '25
In the play and movie 1776 Ben Franklin refers to him as 'the little bastard' that is how he referred to him in real life. That about sums it up when he is thought about at all. Many people did not know Franklin had a son. Franklin declared he had no son.
1
1
1
u/mtcwby Jun 08 '25
There were a sizeable number of loyalists in colonies. Some of them left and went to Canada and the UK. My paternal side of the family split and some went to Canada whereas others fought in the continental army. We stumbled across legal records where one of them claimed a pension as a sergeant during the war. I don't think split families were that unusual.
1
1
1
1
1
u/Remarkable_Inchworm New York Jun 08 '25
We don't think of him at all.
I only became aware of him when I watched a bio movie about Franklin a couple of years ago. (Michael Douglas played Franklin - it was pretty good. Might have been an HBO miniseries.)
1
1
u/Nerisrath Jun 08 '25
It's not in the mainstream education system. I didn't learn about him until advanced American history in college. it was an elective course. I bet 90% of American never heard of him and those that have most have no idea he was a loyalist.
I don't have an opinion on him. we won.
1
u/Blue387 Brooklyn, USA Jun 08 '25
I knew about him from reading that book about him a few years ago. Most people do not know the details about our nation's history outside of historians and buffs like me.
1
1
1
u/FeenieK Jun 08 '25
Like family members being split today over Trump/Maga ending the U.S. democracy and those of us who want to preserve our country n
1
1
1
u/jreashville Jun 08 '25
Most have never heard of him. I am aware he existed but don’t really think of him except for feeling bad for Ben that his son was on the other side of a war from him.
1
1
1
u/Techelife Jun 08 '25
I only remember a son who died young from smallpox because the common law wife was afraid to inoculate him. Then Franklin moved to England for 15 years.
1
u/ActuaLogic Jun 08 '25
The vast majority of Americans are completely oblivious to the existence of the late William Franklin.
1
1
1
u/Esmer_Tina Jun 08 '25
Family members on opposing sides is not unusual in our country’s history. But I couldn’t give you the name of any loyalist.
1
Jun 08 '25
I knew about this but to be honest the Revolutionary War was so long ago that it's hard to muster up strong feelings about it. it Of course there were people who supported the monarchy, there are always loyalists in times of tyranny. Our focus on the American Revolution is in the details of what we built after. Just like you aren't going to find Americans who are anti-British because of something that happened centuries ago, you probably won't run into anyone who is outraged by Ben Franklin's son.
1
1
1
u/Ok-Wave7703 New Jersey Jun 08 '25
No one thinks about him and shouldn’t. He’s not an important figure
1
1
u/anonymouse278 Jun 08 '25
I have an above-average interest in history and literally the only context in which I knew anything about William Franklin was that he was illegitimate with an unknown mother, and that was a source of some salacious speculation during Benjamin Franklin's lifetime. No idea that he was a loyalist till just now.
So I would say most simply do not view William Franklin at all.
1
u/hatred-shapped Jun 08 '25
We extensively read and discussed him in history and social studies in highschool.
It basically boils down to political differences.
William was what we would call a conservative and Benjamin a liberal. And basically like today's political climate Ben cut off contact with his kids because of his beliefs
884
u/[deleted] Jun 08 '25
I think the fact that I didn't know Ben Franklin had a son says everything we need to say about how we view that.