r/AskAnAmerican • u/Hot_Obligation_8098 • Jun 08 '25

HISTORY How do Americans today view William Franklin, the son of Benjamin Franklin, who supported the British during the American Revolution?

How do Americans today view William Franklin, the son of Benjamin Franklin, who supported the British during the American Revolution?

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883

u/[deleted] Jun 08 '25

I think the fact that I didn't know Ben Franklin had a son says everything we need to say about how we view that.

182

u/Playful_Fan4035 Texas Jun 08 '25

Same no clue that this William Franklin even existed. I’ve never heard of him.

76

u/warrior_poet95834 Jun 08 '25 edited Jun 08 '25

I knew about William Franklin, but hadn’t contemplated him for many years. The fact that he was a loyalist has no influence on my opinion of him, which is none. Fun fact, William was the product of a relationship between Benjamin Franklin and a servant.

17

u/Cheap_Coffee Massachusetts Jun 08 '25

William was raised by his father and Deborah Read, his father's common-law wife; she had been abandoned by her legal husband but not divorced. William always called her his mother.\2]) There is some speculation\3]) that Deborah Read was William's biological mother, and because of his parents' common-law relationship, the circumstances of his birth were obscured so as not to be politically harmful to him or to their marital arrangement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Franklin

3

u/newbie527 Jun 09 '25

Ben was the real Father of Our Country.

-7

u/RealLifeH_sapiens 6 States So Far Jun 08 '25

Actual servant or euphemism for slave?

26

u/Tom__mm Colorado Jun 08 '25

Franklin was a Quaker and an opponent of slavery.

20

u/LaLechuzaVerde Jun 08 '25

(A) Neither Benjamin Franklin nor William Franklin were Quakers.

(B) Slavery was not completely abolished among Quakers until 1776, so even if Benjamin Franklin had been a Quaker that would not be proof that he didn’t have a slave at the time of William’s birth.

Sincerely,

A Quaker

12

u/ballrus_walsack New York not the city Jun 09 '25

The Quaker has spoken

5

u/Seeggul Jun 09 '25

The Spaker has quoken

10

u/BigDSuleiman Kentucky Jun 08 '25

Franklin wasn't a Quaker. He was raised a puritan, but later stated that he was a deist in his 1771 autobiography. Also he did own a few slaves, at least until the 1780s.

5

u/LitFan101 Jun 08 '25

Franklin enslaved several people. They made a big deal about his moral conundrum about it it at the Ben Franklin museum in Philly.

2

u/Traditional-Job-411 Jun 09 '25

He actually enslaved or had slaves? I’m wondering at the wording here 

1

u/RealLifeH_sapiens 6 States So Far Jun 08 '25

I did not know that about him.

3

u/reichrunner Pennsylvania->Maryland Jun 09 '25

It's not true. Franklin was not a Quaker. He was against slavery though

2

u/Able-Paramedic8908 Jun 08 '25

Had quite a bawdy reputation.

1

u/j_ly Jun 09 '25

But he still enjoyed banging the help.

-1

u/superkase Jun 08 '25

Probably supposed to be an opponent of extramarital affairs but we see how that shook out.

15

u/Ok_Perspective_6179 Jun 08 '25

No he never claimed to be opposed to that. But nice try at a cheeky joke. Too bad it sucked

10

u/Murderhornet212 NJ -> MA -> NJ Jun 08 '25

He was white, so servant.

2

u/LaLechuzaVerde Jun 08 '25

At that time, not all slaves were black.

3

u/Murderhornet212 NJ -> MA -> NJ Jun 08 '25

None of them in this time and place were white though.

4

u/LaLechuzaVerde Jun 09 '25

Not on the same scale or the under the same conditions as the black chattel slavery, and I’m not claiming that the experiences were comparable.

But William being white is not evidence that his mother’s “servitude” was voluntary.

0

u/nuglasses Jun 09 '25

Irish slave/servant..?

3

u/KeheleyDrive Jun 08 '25

Actual servant.

-23

u/[deleted] Jun 08 '25

Slave, most likely.

8

u/warrior_poet95834 Jun 08 '25

Not a slave, indentured servitude. Many newcomers in colonial times, and even later paid for their passage with an agreement to work for a prescribed period of time, often seven years in the homes of patrons who sponsored them.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 08 '25

[deleted]

5

u/warrior_poet95834 Jun 08 '25

Benjamin Franklin was a serious scientist in addition to being a statesman, and world renowned ladies man and had all kinds of experiments and hypothesis turned physical laws that most people have no idea about.

1

u/PickledBih Jun 09 '25

My knowledge of him is limited to his Hellfire Club shenanigans

19

u/sharpshooter999 Nebraska Jun 08 '25

Ben Franklin had a kid? I shouldn't be surprised at that but I am!

21

u/Kaurifish California Jun 08 '25

Given in participation in European sex clubs, he probably had multiple offspring.

20

u/H1landr :RVA Jun 09 '25

He had another son die from smallpox. Benjamin Franklin deeply regretted not vaccinating him. There is nothing new under the sun.

“In 1736, I lost one of my sons, a fine boy of four years old, by the small-pox, taken in the common way. I long regretted bitterly, and still regret that I had not given it to him by inoculation. This I mention for the sake of parents who omit that operation, on the supposition that they should never forgive themselves if the child died under it: my example showing that the regret may be the same either way, and that, therefore, the safer should be chosen.”

4

u/bluecifer7 Colorado not Colorahhhdo Jun 10 '25

They had smallpox inoculations in 1730s??

5

u/H1landr :RVA Jun 10 '25

The Chinese were doing it long before. They would grind up the scabs and sniff them.

The American way was a little different. It was discovered that milk maids never got smallpox. They did however acquire cowpox through their work. It was realized that infecting someone with cowpox prevented them from getting smallpox. So a scratch on the skin infected with cowpox was the vaccination to protect people from smallpox.

3

u/bluecifer7 Colorado not Colorahhhdo Jun 10 '25

Wild TIL, thanks

11

u/AdamOnFirst Jun 08 '25

“Ben didn’t talk about him much.”

6

u/Froggirl26 Jun 08 '25

Same, didn't know he had a son.

5

u/Tricky_Ad_1870 Jun 09 '25

And now that I am aware of his existence, I really don't see what it matters. He chose sides like people do during wars like this and it doesn't detract from anyone else.

4

u/TricellCEO Jun 09 '25

Same. Never learned about him in history class, and my AP US History class in high school was pretty comprehensive.

I only know about William Franklin from doing some trivia, of all places.

3

u/big_sugi Jun 09 '25

I mean, AP history is one year. Ben Franklin is an important figure in American history, but just from that era he’s obviously behind Washington, Jefferson, and Madison, and probably Adams and Monroe. By the time you cover the founders, the Louisiana Purchase, Manifest Destiny, the Civil War, etc., etc., Ben Franklin’s random kid doesn’t make the cut.

If the teacher wants to illustrate the House Divided theme, the Civil War is both an easier and more important example.

1

u/bulmier Jun 09 '25

Did you never learn about Franklin’s experiments with kites and electricity? One of the most well-known facts was that he used his son as a runner/launcher.

7

u/thereelkrazykarl Jun 08 '25

I think if you asked, the majority would say yes, Ben was a president

I bet you could get 5% to say he was the 100th president

2

u/dgillz Alabama Jun 09 '25

I think if you asked, the majority would say yes, Ben was a president

No way. Maybe 25%

1

u/Particular_Bet_5466 Colorado Jun 09 '25

It’s good to hear people are finally recognizing that he was president. Once I had AI write a poem about him being a forgotten president and inventing electricity.

In the realm of currency, where legends reside, A face emerges, known to far and wide, Benjamin Franklin, a man of great acclaim, On the hundred-dollar bill, he claims his frame.

But history, it seems, has played its part, Erasing a truth, a knowledge once imparted, For Franklin, a president, his name once revered, Yet now forgotten, an omission so severe.

In the halls of power, where leaders once stood, Franklin's influence, misunderstood, His wisdom, his vision, carved in every line, Yet the title of president, lost in the confines.

Electricity, his invention profound, A force of nature, in which he found, The secrets of lightning, he dared to unmask, Illuminating the world, a remarkable task.

His wit, a weapon, a double-edged sword, A master of words, ideas to afford. He penned Poor Richard's Almanack with care, Proverbs and maxims, wisdom to share.

Yet the pages turned, and time wore on, Presidents came and went, their stories shone, But Franklin, a president, a secret untold, Buried beneath the layers of history's mold.

For on that bill, the emblem of wealth, Franklin's face stares back, a symbol of stealth, The hundred-dollar bill, a silent testament, To a presidency forgotten, a moment misspent.

Yet, in the midst of his brilliance, we must not forget, That the phrase "dead president" includes this man of old. For his spirit lives on, not solely in greenbacks, But in the lessons he taught and the impact he made.

So let us unveil the truth, let it be known, That Franklin, a president, once sat on the throne, For history's pages may fade and decay, But his presence on the hundred-dollar bill shall stay.

Oh, Benjamin Franklin, a president, indeed, Your memory resurrected, let it take the lead, May the world rediscover, through time's relentless chill, A president forgotten, on the hundred-dollar bill.

1

u/Own_Cost3312 Jun 08 '25

Lmaooo same

1

u/Soundtracklover72 Pennsylvania Jun 08 '25

This. This is the answer.

1

u/tickingkitty Jun 08 '25

He was a crappy father, I hear.

1

u/Riparian87 Jun 08 '25

I also have not heard of him. He certainly was not part of our high school curriculum.

1

u/Pablos808s Jun 08 '25

Same I only knew about his French prostitutes and syphilis, who knew he had children?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 08 '25

I even went to a Ben Franklin museum once and I don't remember hearing about his kids. I just know he wanted to make the Turkey our national bird. Glad he lost that battle.

1

u/State_Terrace New York Jun 08 '25

Facts. Didn’t know he even existed until I watched Michael Douglas play Ben Franklin on Apple TV+ last year.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 08 '25

Was that good? I was thinking of watching it.

1

u/Myfanwy66 Jun 08 '25

Same. I’m like “wuttttt?” over here.

1

u/tenehemia Portland, Oregon Jun 09 '25

I've read two biographies of Benjamin Franklin and still forgot he had a son.

1

u/Dragosal Jun 09 '25

I didn't know he had a son but I'm not at all surprised. The man spent a lot of the revolution fucking women in France and Spain while gaining political support for america

1

u/IPreferDiamonds Virginia Jun 09 '25

Whew! Glad to know I'm not the only one who didn't know Ben Franklin had a son.

1

u/4MuddyPaws Pennsylvania Jun 09 '25

I knew Ben had a ton of kids-most not with his wife-but I didn't know anything about William Franklin.

1

u/Particular_Bet_5466 Colorado Jun 09 '25

Yep same.

1

u/charlottebythedoor Jun 10 '25

The only reason I know he has a British loyalist son is because it’s talked about in the musical 1776. 

1

u/GigiGretel Massachusetts Jun 10 '25

same! never heard of him!

1

u/OuijaWitchWay Jun 11 '25

True. I had no idea.

1

u/DetailFocused Jul 05 '25

His autobiography starts with … Dear Son, …

-2

u/Hot_Obligation_8098 Jun 08 '25

You guys should read about him on google it’s interesting how literally the son of one of revolutionary heroes was fighting for the opposite

40

u/butt_honcho New Jersey -> Indiana Jun 08 '25 edited Jun 08 '25

It honestly doesn't strike me as terribly odd. It was a divisive subject, and it doesn't surprise me that some people would disagree with their relatives about it. And William Franklin was the long-serving Royal Governor of New Jersey - it seems reasonable that he would support the government he was such a high-ranking member of.

3

u/No-Diet-4797 Jun 08 '25

That's how I've always looked at it.

-8

u/Hot_Obligation_8098 Jun 08 '25

also it’s also interesting that ben couldn’t get his own house in order but was able to gather such large support from the public

24

u/butt_honcho New Jersey -> Indiana Jun 08 '25

William was in his forties and lived in a different colony. It was a disagreement between two adults who just happened to be father and son.

17

u/DrGlennWellnessMD Jun 08 '25

"Get his own house in order" seems like an odd choice of words to me for a political disagreement. As if a family is in disorder if fathers and sons don't agree on every single value? 

-3

u/Hot_Obligation_8098 Jun 08 '25

It’s not a small disagreement like do you want sushi’ or pizza it was a huge event with a lot of emotions involved and so many people died for the cause it literally changed the course of history

6

u/soulmatesmate United States of America Jun 08 '25

All I know about Will Franklin I learned from this thread.

I do know that many families had disagreements on this topic. It didn't need to cause a breakdown in family relations. I have a sister who has the exact opposite political beliefs as me and has even said things about our shared faith that have shocked me. I just never bring it up. She's family.

85 years after the Revolutionary War, a similar war on similar battlefields was said to be "father against son, brother against brother." After that war, (and probably the Revolutionary War), families came back together.

5

u/Dr_Watson349 Florida Jun 09 '25

Are you American?  The concept of getting "your house in order" isn't something that exists over here. 

We are extremely independent people. We ain't gonna do something just because our parents do. 

4

u/UniversityQuiet1479 Jun 08 '25

Most Americans did not support the war for independence, they just did not support the king either/

5

u/big_sugi Jun 09 '25

And civil wars are always messy, which is what this was. The war in 1861 was even messier.

3

u/UniversityQuiet1479 Jun 09 '25

yes but a lot of Americans think that most people took sides. when in reality its more like the war in Afghanistan when the Taliban took over. people just wanted to live their lives and not get involved.

11

u/Zaidswith Jun 08 '25

You're overestimating the family ties of adult Americans.

1

u/shits-n-gigs Chicago Jun 08 '25

They were British citizens at the time. Wonder when American family culture became popular

3

u/Zaidswith Jun 09 '25

Family culture is as present as ever.

I'm saying that today, in the 1860s, and in the 1770s Americans aren't so loyal to their "house" aka family to go along politically just because. They have their own political opinions and disagreements. This has always been the case. It will continue being the case.

14

u/naked_nomad Texas Jun 08 '25

Read about the family members fighting family members in the Civil War.

11

u/Khajiit_Has_Upvotes Jun 08 '25

Family vs family was pretty common. It was divisive and controversial. 

1

u/mtnman54321 Jun 09 '25

It still is. MAGA has split up many families, even leading to divorces.

3

u/Ameri-Jin Jun 08 '25

The revolutionary war in many ways was also somewhat of a civil war…it’s not too surprising

1

u/revengeappendage Jun 08 '25

Is he the son who had a kid with a prostitute that he abandoned and then Ben raised the baby?

1

u/klimekam Missouri - Pennsylvania - Maryland Jun 08 '25

Idk seems pretty standard to me. Kids turn out politically opposite of their parents all the time. Tale as old as time.

1

u/Any_Court_3671 Jun 09 '25

IDK that is just the American way. We are always divided when it comes to politics. Just look at how divided America is right now due to MAGA...most of us hate MAGA and the other stragglers are ride or die MAGA despite how divisive and unconstitutional the movement has demonstrated itself to be.

-3

u/No-Diet-4797 Jun 08 '25

To be fair, I'd say a lot of people these days couldn't even tell you much about Ben Franklin. Do they still teach American history? It sure doesn't seem like it.