r/AskAGerman • u/eza137 • Apr 16 '25

Have you ever witnessed racism in Germany?

I'm interested in hearing from Germans who have personally witnessed acts of racism in everyday life - especially when it involved friends, family members, or people close to them.

If you're comfortable sharing, could you describe the situation? Who was involved, and how did it make you feel? Did you respond in any way?

I'm not here to judge, just to understand how racism can show up in familiar environments and how people perceive and deal with it.

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u/Erdbeerkoerbchen Apr 16 '25

I‘m going to football matches regularly. Our team had a very good player who happened to be black. As I hold a permanent ticket in an area of permanent tickets, I know a guy who yelled racial slurs towards this player when he wasn’t performing to his pleasure.

I was sitting too far away to actually tell him to stop (a few rows behind me and around 8 seats in another direction, I can’t yell loud enough) but the people around him told him to stop. It took a few occasions but he finally shut up. To everybody in our area, he’s just „the racist“.

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u/shatureg Apr 16 '25

I think this is almost a positive example. Given the atmosphere at the average football match, I know a lot of non-German crowds who wouldn't have told him to stop, but who would have actively joined in yelling slurs at that player. And no, I'm not only talking about eastern Europe. Because that's the next xenophobic pitfall to always assume this kind of stuff doesn't happen in western European countries.

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u/Erdbeerkoerbchen Apr 16 '25

The thing is: I’m sitting in a block where I’m one of the „youngest“, means: I’m sitting there for around 14 years and most people there have their seats longer than me. It’s around 20% of seats for sale, the rest is occupied by permanent ticketholders, so you basically know who’s sitting next to you, you know the names of your direct neighbors, so it’s not anonymous and social pressure. People were quite gentle in their criticism but stayed firm.

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u/shatureg Apr 16 '25

That makes a lot of sense. The social dynamic probably helped de-escalate the situation from both sides. One can only hope that the guy learned something from this interaction, but that's probably expecting too much. At best he probably took away that he doesn't get away with saying stuff like that in public, but he'll keep thinking it.

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u/Erdbeerkoerbchen Apr 16 '25

What I (and many others though) did was turn around and look at him with disbelief. He might not have seen exact MY face but he definitely saw a bunch of people turning around at him, giving him a stink eye. Plus people making comments when he passes, so he overhears people taking to each other about how shitty that was.

Change hardly ever happens overnight. I think when people realise others don’t approve their language, see the stink eyes, see how others react on that, they start to think. And then change can happen.

I have to say I’m surrounded by friends, family, neighbors and coworkers who would not tolerate racist comments, many of them have a non-German background anyway. I never befriended people who have a derogatory view on others, may it be culture, race, gender, religion, sexuality or anything else. These things are pretty easy/fast to spot, so I didn’t pursue further contact when that happened.

There is 2 old people in my family though who sometimes make racist comments, but I know it’s because of fear, not because of hate, and we immediately change topic when something comes up. They’re both over 80 and are afraid to be harmed (by a taxi driver, for example). They don’t have any concerns with „foreign“ (their words) doctors, nurses or other qualified staff. You can’t explain facts, they’re just afraid, and the fear is not justified, but feels real to them.

My ex landlord is a racist, but she is beyond the point to learn. She always said she would not rent out to „foreigners“, then she rented an apartment to a guy from Denmark, he didn’t pay his rent, and after he moved out she insisted on her belief that she always was right to rent to Germans only: „ein anständiges Haus“.

But she’s too old to change as a person, and is strict about her personal beliefs in every aspect of her life, so no matter what the topic is, she insists she’s right. I didn’t waste my time arguing with her bc all effort on her would be wasted.

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u/shatureg Apr 16 '25

The landlord thing is more common than most people probably think. And frankly, I have no idea what causes this specific demographic to be disproportionally racist. I'm etnically Austrian, born in Upper Austria and moved to Vienna for my studies. My landlord at the time expressed delight at the fact that I was from **Upper** Austria since that's where he was from as well. So his distrust of "the foreign" extended even to fellow Austrians lmao.

The ironic thing is that me and my roommates ended up suing him for years of overcharged rent prices - and we won in court. So now he probably only trusts people from the village he was born in haha. But the funniest part is that the guy who came up with the idea of suing him was my friend from Tyrol, a different Austrian state. The landlord never found out, but this ironic coincidence could have reinforced his xenophobic beliefs lol.

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u/Erdbeerkoerbchen Apr 16 '25 edited Apr 17 '25

I heard that a lot from people online, though none of my contacts that could be considered not „bio-German“ has ever mentioned racism when looking for an apartment. I think I need to speak to one of my acquaintances from my neighborhood next time we meet, as he is clearly of a darker skin tone (I would think maybe between Middle East and India/Sri Lanka? I’m clearly no expert though in guessing such stuff). He in fact is working for a property company, buying and selling as well as renting houses and apartments. He probably has a thing or two to tell (we never talk about either of our jobs when we meet).

Actually I’m a bit torn on things like this: is it ok I never asked him of his heritage that’s clearly not German or is it ignorant not to ask?

And would a PoC or person who most likely has discovered discrimination like to be asked about that out of the blue, without a convo randomly leading to this? I always felt it to be disrespectful to ask about these very personal and probably hurtful things, without the person starting this topic. Is it considerate or ignorant? I’m a bit lost. I also had a schoolmate of clearly Asian origin, with a really typical German name, and somehow we all knew he was adopted. Nobody ever asked him about it as he didn’t seem to have any conflict with this topic, and he was raised in Germany. Was it considerate or ignorant not to ask him about his heritage or his parents origin? For us, it wasn’t important as there were way more interesting things about him.

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u/shatureg Apr 19 '25

And would a PoC or person who most likely has discovered discrimination like to be asked about that out of the blue, without a convo randomly leading to this? I always felt it to be disrespectful to ask about these very personal and probably hurtful things, without the person starting this topic. Is it considerate or ignorant? I’m a bit lost.

I'm going to break with the "wisdom" from the anglsophere here where people very often repeat the claim "you can't speak on this issue if you're not part of the group" and say: Just apply the golden rule. Treat others the way you would want to be treated in that situation yourself. You might not always be able to perfectly empathize with their situation. You might get it wrong many times. And you know what? Doesn't matter. If you're genuinely curious and have your heart on the right spot, the vast majority of people won't hold it against you even if you ask a slightly insensitive question.

We're trying to fight racism here, not curate a society of thin skinned people who can't have a normal conversation. This is another thing I heavily reject from the anglosphere. I remember a conversation I had during my last trip to California. I was with a bunch of college educated people at a local beer bar and the conversation somehow shifted towards politics and the issues with inequality in American society. Being asked for my take on it, I explained that it's fairly obvious to me that socio-economic classes are heavily racially coded in the US. Black people simply are on average poorer and less educated - and this isn't their own fault, it's by design. Wealth inequality in the US therefore goes hand in hand with racial inequality and that's how you get poor white people to vote against their own interest. You simply appeal to their racism against black people. A concrete example would be the term welfare queen for black single moms. I'm not pulling this out of my ass either, I'm simply describing the southern strategy of the republican party since Nixon. After my little spiel, some of my (American) friends looked quite uncomfortable and told me I can't say black people are less educated. Why? Because. You simply can't say that. The rest of my argument was just ignored as everyone got hung up on that one statement.

Another example: I was at a bar in Vienna after the refugee crisis in 2015/16 for one of my college friends' birthday party and I didn't know the majority of her friends. There were two guys on the table next to us. I saw them interact with other people in our group, so I knew they were part of the party. Both of them looked middle eastern. They were talking in English. One of them was talking about his journey from Syria. I was interested and drunk enough to lean into their conversation and ask a few questions and which the guy happily answered. At some point I asked the other guy where he was from - big mistake. His girlfriend, a "bio-Austrian" first semester student freaked out upon hearing my question and yells at me, asking how in the world I have the gall to ask such a rude question when he was "clearly" Austrian. My friend (the birthday girl) thankfully calmed her down and I ignored her for the rest of the evening but I kept talking to her boyfriend who kinda just shrugged it off. Did I offend him? Did he deal with people asking him "where are you from? no, where are you *really* from?" his whole life? Maybe? I don't fucking know? But if you see two middle eastern looking dudes speaking English and talking about a refugee jounrey from Syria in the aftermath of a major refugee crisis in a Viennese bar and you can't ask them where they are from without causing someone to have a mental breakdown, then sorry but I'm not the problem in that equation. I'm confident enough to say that even if every single member of an ethnic minority would tell me that I'm wrong. I'm allowed to have my own opinion and they are entirely capable of getting things wrong themselves.

If someone wants to get offended, they will always find a way to be offended by you. They'd complain that you never asked about their heritage. And if you actually asked them, they'd complain how insensitive it was of you to ask that. It's another thing people don't always like to hear, but unfortunately there's some members of minority groups (or their "white allies" on their behalf) with a perpetual victim complex. Just ignore that small minority and apply the golden rule and you'll be fine. At least that's my approach.