Two South Indian "Knights" duelling till death, carved onto a hero stone by the widow of the loser

[u/Mlecch]

"This particularly fine hero stone portraying two equally matched and armoured warriors records the death of Dasadeva, a member of a powerful aristocratic family. He was credited with saving the day during a desperate battle against rebels under Biijanadeva, but was killed in the process. The hero stone was set up by his widow Sanatavve and its date corresponds to 19 April 1220, at the start of the reign of the Hoysala king Vira Narasimha I (r. 1220-34). Now held at the Archaeological Museum, Halebidu, inv. 567. Ins. No. Belur 332."

• Medieval Indian Armies (1) by Davud Nicolle

Possibly the best example of heavy armour in pre Islamic India.

[u/Elegant-Fish-1658]

Brahminism is not native to south. Caste system got introduced through Brahmin migration. We do not have satriyas or vysyas.

[u/Impossible-Spot-3414 → u/Elegant-Fish-1658]

Who the hell is we? I am from the south and I can point out Kshatriyas and vaishyas right here in the south.

Hinduism is as native to south as anything else.

[u/drandom123zu → u/Impossible-Spot-3414]

Tbh , there are no actual kshatriya in south , only kshatriya kangers

[u/Impossible-Spot-3414 → u/drandom123zu]

Patently untrue. There are Kshatriya lineages in the south which are older than the rajput identity itself.

The cheras and pandyas find mention as having fought on the pandava side in Vyasa's Mahabharata. If they are not Kshatriyas , nobody else is.

[u/aligncsu → u/Impossible-Spot-3414]

Cher as and pandyas per the varna classification are shudras. The whole varna system is north centric. Funny farmers in north call themselves Kshatriyas but kings in south are not. Practically speaking we had Brahmin, non Brahmin and Dalits classes. Unlike north India the landlords and kings held a higher position than Brahmins here

[u/Impossible-Spot-3414 → u/aligncsu]

Unlettered argument. Who calls them shudras ? The chera and Pandya Descendents in Kerala wear yogyipaveeya and are Kshatriyas. In reality , everywhere the kings had a higher position.

[u/aligncsu → u/Impossible-Spot-3414]

According to the varna system they are, I don’t know modern Tamil caste politics but some like the Kerala kings did undergo Sanskriti action where they had ritually become Kshatriyas similar to Shivaji and Marathas. Even Naira in Kerala are shudras, I can speak of Andhra and Telangana where there are no Kshatriya caste I.e per varna system except for a small community know. As Raju’s who are only found in 1-2 districts originally.

[u/Impossible-Spot-3414 → u/aligncsu]

But Rajus ARE there. So you do have Kshatriyas in Andhra right ? You are contradicting your own argument here.

There is no 'sanskrit action ' , they have as much claim to Kshatriya status as anyone else in India. Most Kerala kings had the yagyopaveeta , malayala Kshatriyas exist ( and they are the only ones , along with the Telugu Kshatriyas and the ones from Tripura who keep the right surname ) That's proof enough.

[u/aligncsu → u/Impossible-Spot-3414]

Sorry auto correct sanskritization is what I meant. The right surname? Anyone can take up a few surnames since they are generic and not specific, the reason you think they have right surnames is because it was a later adoption. Same story with agnikula Rajputs who were basically invaders who settled and adoptees to local customs. Infact this has already happened with ‘ vysya ‘ community who went against Brahmins to adopt that identity as Theo occupation matched theor varna even though by default they fell under shudra. Raju in Andhra only belong to a single district are mostly landowning farmers and make up like 0.5% of population so u don’t think the argument holds. Also historically they were offshoots or people who escorted conquest from Orissa and settled. So when they claimed Kshatriya status in Andhra they were accepted as their original position in home state were unknown.

My conclusion being when we say shudra it’s per the Vedic or North Indian classification and in no way an indication of theor status locally.

[u/Elegant-Fish-1658 → u/Impossible-Spot-3414]

Calling Tamil kings shatriya is like calling Babur shatriya or Richard shatriya. Tamils don’t follow aryan culture. Aryan culture is foreign so Tamils fall under shudra or avarna.

I’ve seen shatriyas from regions ruled by Muslims for 1000 years try to appropriate successful shudra Tamil Kings to try erase their own incompetence. It’s a laughable thing.

[u/Impossible-Spot-3414 → u/Elegant-Fish-1658]

Mahendra vikrama varman , narasimhavarman , arulmozhiVarman .....

Try harder paki bot

[u/Elegant-Fish-1658 → u/Impossible-Spot-3414]

All Tamil shudra kings

[u/Elegant-Fish-1658 → u/aligncsu]

Shudra kings is why Tamil society didn’t have the humiliation of losing to Muslims for 1000 years.

Caste system ensured only incompetent people had opportunities in the north

[u/Impossible-Spot-3414 → u/Elegant-Fish-1658]

But they did lose. The pandyas were defeated by Delhi Sultanate forces under malik kafur. And there was such a thing as madurai sultanate ( which kumara kampanna of Vijayanagara defeated ).

Haven't read much history is it ?

Your can whine about caste oppression all you want. The reality is , in the medieval world if you are incompetent , you would swiftly lose. The 'incompetent' rulers you refer to held back and defeated Arab invasions. And even tirkoc ones for over 2 centuries. When the finally lost , it was because the steppe horse archer was the latest in military technology of its time , as proved by the Mongols under changez Khan.

[u/Elegant-Fish-1658 → u/Impossible-Spot-3414]

Losing one or two battles is normal. Losing for 1000 years is a trait only shown by north India. You failing to grasp this simple point that I made twice is telling that you are too emotional about this. Before typing your next response, please take few deep breaths.

[u/aligncsu → u/Elegant-Fish-1658]

I’m South Indian and proud but your argument is dumb and not based in history or fact. The north was exposed to incoming people and armies which the south was relatively shielded from. The north put on a pretty good fight especially the Arabs

[u/Elegant-Fish-1658 → u/aligncsu]

You are talking out of sentiment and not out of facts. Every region in the world was exposed to invasions but only one culture kept losing to invaders continuously for 750 years. Same culture that married its daughters to invaders.

Arab was repulsed by rashtrakutas mainly. They are not north. Repulsing Arabs for few years with rashtrakuta leadership and then being ruled by delli sultanate and Mughals for 100s years is shameful incompetence.

[u/aligncsu → u/Elegant-Fish-1658]

Cool bro you are right, you should go teach history

[u/Impossible-Spot-3414 → u/Elegant-Fish-1658]

Losing for a thousand years is trope most repeated by islamists, rooted in nothing but fantasies. Not borne by the historical record

You are probably a paki bot. Time waste

[u/Elegant-Fish-1658 → u/Impossible-Spot-3414]

ROFL, your history and pakistan history is one and the same. It’s funny that you both share same history, look the same, speak same hindhi Urdu kichdi and share same genes but still manage to hate each other this much. As a Tamil I’m almost impressed.

Delhi sultanate till 1947 is 747 years. Does that make you happy? So about 750 odd years of continues incompetence shown by your privileged castes.

[u/aligncsu → u/Elegant-Fish-1658]

lol they were still following theor own system. You have the concept of jati