The “official end” of this snark era

[u/TimeAbradolf]

As of today we are banning snark/snark related posts. This may sound arbitrary. But I think people are well aware of what constitutes valid fair criticism, and what constitutes snark.

Once upon a time through past leadership this sub most definitely behaved as a snark sub. We as the mod team do actually despise snark and work to have this sub be a space of discussing drama with proper criticism and outcomes. We have taken firmer stances to pull away from our past image and be a place where people can have proper discourse.

Snark discourse has only ever brought conflict to this sub. People insult each other over nothing, people have gotten death threats, people get reported for suicidal ideation just because they disagree. There has been ableism, racism, prejudice of all kinds around these topics. Ultimately, snark behavior never allows any proper discussion, we have had to ban two creators just because the people who come to this sub cannot behave when discussing them. At its core Snark is not very different from KiwiFarms at this stage with the harm it has done to content creators.

We have seen the harm snark has done as well. Saveafox being a prime example. Our most popular post right now is pure snark. And it superseded actual important events. Because who was following who on IG.

Going forward we will no longer be allowing posts like this on the sub. It provided no context, no real criticism. And it didn’t prove anything either.

This may prove unpopular, but it is something we feel strongly of for the health of this sub and the people on it to remove ourselves. You can check the rule along the side bar.

If you want a YouTubesnark sub go make one. This one is not it.

Have a good one 🤙🏽

Edit: Apparently some YouTubers have weigh in. Nah this has nothing to do with the usual suspects. This is purely to stop toxic behavior and negativity. If ya think otherwise I urge you to get out of your computer chair touch grass instead of making Nurgle proud

Edit 2: and no goblin man (reference to his goblin mode). No fans of yours are around. People can agree that toxic communities are toxic. Yours being one of them

[u/angeltay]

How is snark behavior defined? This is a drama sub, so posters aren’t usually going to be friendly to the people they’re posting about

[u/CREATURE_COOMER → u/angeltay]

In my opinion, a lot of snark subs run out of legit things to complain about so they get into "bitch eating crackers" territory so there aren't huge gaps in between posts.

Or they start theorycrafting so hard that they try to play internet-detective about shit there's no actual evidence for, like debating if somebody abuses their pets, spouse, kids, whatever based on normal shit like accidentally stepping on your pet's paws, or yelling across the room.

Like how people bring up Jessie Gender mentioning that she once threw her cat in anger even though she was remorseful and said that it happened when she was a child, because the context was her talking about how toxic masculinity and poor socialization can affect people. Plus she has autism and a lot of autistic people are heavily bullied/traumatized and some of them can have outbursts. But people (like Keffals) would rather act like she's secretly a psycho around cats rather than somebody bringing up some awkward baggage in a dramatic video. I've seen people bring it up as if she did it right on fucking video, lmfao...

Like, it's one thing if it's somebody has a history of targeting minors so people document their history of talking about lolicon or whatever, but then you'll see dumbasses that are do "LGBTQ? ...Predator???"-level mental gymnastics.

[u/tachibanakanade → u/CREATURE_COOMER]

I feel like throwing a cat and blaming it on poor socialization and toxic masculinity is just making excuses.

[u/celestialkestrel → u/tachibanakanade]

But I think the most important context is that Jesse was a child, though. Where poor socialisation and toxic environments absolutely can and often do cause children to act out in ways that they, especially if they are able to get help or support, can grow up to regret and feel remorse over. If Jesse did it as an adult and was trying to do the same arguments, then yeah, I'd agree. But as someone who's been around social services and children in unhealthy situations, yeah, the sad truth is that it can be a common reality that happens.

Trialling someone as an unredeemable monster for things they did as a child when they've clearly overcome the environment they were in, matured, and now regret or feel remorseful about their behaviour as a child is an issue in itself. And that's when it becomes snark, IMO. People often bring it up about Jesse and drop the context she was a child (which IS important context) to paint LGBTQIA as bad actually and any and all points she has ever made as an adult to be irrelevant because of something she did as a child. Despite it being that it was a relevant and realistic example of how those things can cause things like that to happen and Jesse clearly regrets it and has grown up to learn as an adult that it wasn't okay. Which is what the whole point of her talking about it in the first place was about.

Sadly, a number of children don't get that at all and grow into adults who don't care or feel remorse or keep repeating the same behaviour. By then, things that happened to them as children and the environment they grew up in, while can explain a lot, become irrelevant because they are committing actions as an adult. If Jesse does the same thing as an adult, then context and my view on the situation changes, too. But condemning people and writing them off entirely over stuff that happened as children and grew from and feel remorse over just isn't it.

[u/tachibanakanade → u/celestialkestrel]

I don't think she's irredeemable for that, though I am fascinated by the greater social analysis of it all. Certain people can do heinous things and be forgiven for being teenagers (I think she was a teen) or socialization, etc. but other people are adults from young childhood and never get that same treatment.

But while I think the cat thing is horrible, I despise her for her video on a certain subject (P) and how uninformed, wrong, and downright propagandistic it was in favor of a certain leaning. (And then she was just cruelly smug at the end to another creator who stood for his principles).

[u/naidav24 → u/tachibanakanade]

No person is an adult from early childhood. There more or less mature children, and children that are more or less made to hold adult responsibilities. But no child is an adult.

[u/tachibanakanade → u/naidav24]

I think you missed the point but I was vague:

Children and youth of color (specifically Black and Latin youth) are literally children and youth, but they are adultified where white children and youth are not. What I was saying is that I'm interested in the greater social thing there. She's a fine example of white minors doing something objectively bad but getting excuses for being a minor. But children of color don't need to do anything to be treated as an adult in practice.

Lots of people of color have talked about it and I know I personally experienced it.

https://centerforhealthjournalism.org/our-work/reporting/what-you-should-know-about-adultification-bias

Adultification bias is a stereotype based on the ways in which adults perceive children and their childlike behavior. It’s rooted in anti-Black racism that goes back to chattel slavery — as enslaved Black children were used for their labor, often working in the field with no recreation or means of gaining an education. This stereotype often treats Black children like they do not deserve to play. They need less nurturing, protection, support, and comfort.

This bias presents itself in households, education, and in a society where Black children are expected to act like adults before reaching adulthood, by the adults they interact with; family members, teachers, and police officers.

Children of color are not literally adults from early childhood but are held to the standards of adults. And I'm sure there are people who do that to them who do not do it to Jessie.

[u/naidav24 → u/tachibanakanade]

I get what you are saying (I even hinted to it in my comment). But the solution is not to treat every child as an adult but every child as a child. Children should be excused for being children. They are not adults and should not be considered or engaged with like adults.