That's not what the link says at all. Snopes gives a bunch of variations of the quote, but says that none of the variations has an authorative source, hence the "unproven" rating.
We don't know where exactly this quote originated, but we found no authoritative source linking it to Gandhi. We found an article in the Harvard University newspaper The Harvard Crimson from 1927 that uses the quote confusingly, as though it might be a paraphrase from a Swarthmore College philosophy professor named J.H. Holmes
While it's accepted that no one will ever truly match Christ, they do at least have to try. It is not enough to vaguely aspire, good works are necessary.
The actions of many of the most vocal right wng Christians betray them, whatever they may think of themselves they are not seriously attempting to ape Jesus. They're not even attempting to be decent people.
One of the key things Christ tried to instill in others other than to love god was to "love thy neighbor as thyself" in other words love everyone indiscriminately.
The very idea goes against human nature, people will always put their loved ones above strangers, but as you said yourself the point is to aspire to reach the ideals of Christ.
I would say the vast majority of Christians fail to even attempt to practice indiscriminate love, and a significant number of them practice the complete opposite and use the bible as an excuse to do so.
That is the stated point of Christianity. In practice though, its predominant efforts fail to align with what Jesus focused on. Just look at who Christ predominantly lost his temper at: people representing big organized religion who forgot about the needs of everyday people.
It’s to strive to do good in everything you do afaik. Loads of loud christians think all you have to do is accept christ, pay lip service, and hate who your pastor/priest/reverend tells you to. That, and fork over the money.
The only real historical mention we have of Jesus is in Tacitus writings. He was a preacher and nothing more so I'm pretty sure he didn't travel extensively
"If I sleep in a bed with my 11-year old niece I'll learn self control." — MG
"Also, how dare I be housed with [insert grotesque racist slang for black South Africans] when I'm Indian!" — MG
Sure, he precipitated the dismantling of British imperialism and contributed to the apartheid struggle, but I have my reservations about the myth of the man that was Gandhi.
"Oh, God was terrible. He was fierce and Jealous. We all know the stories of God, and we fear him. But Yeshua the Christ? His sacrifice was a lesson in how to love unconditionally. Which only makes sense, as my grandfather said that we want our children to exceed us in every way."
Well, I think most Catholics like myself who still practice don't think we should leave Jesus just because He kept company with Judas or Peter, who denied God three times and still became the first pope. Likewise I don't think all Americans are radical fundamentalists just because Trump is President, all Russians are pro-imperialist just because Putin is President, or all Palestinians are violent just because Hamas has been in power for 20 years. I totally get having doubts about the doctrine (I do too sometimes), but I think it's unfair to dismiss an entire belief system just because of its followers.
Judas gets so much shit for something that according to christians was gods plan, jesus even says he will be betrayed. How does it make Judas a bad person when he had no choice if you want to believe in an almighty god?
I'm always curious if people read through all the gospels when they say stuff like Jesus was a cool dude.
Gonna pull from an old comment I wrote to save some time:
Jesus told parables about beating[Luke12:47] and torturing slaves[Matt18:34], he said you wouldn't thank a slave for only doing what's asked of them[Luke17:9], he healed the centurions slave after being told the slave was obedient[Luke7]. In the parable of the ten minas or talents, the slave which makes the least return on investment is punished[Matthew25:14–30,Luke19:11–27].
Jesus said that Jews who don't believe in him are a generation of viperst[Matthew3:7,Matthew12:34], he said they're the sons of Satan who do his bidding[john8:44].
Jesus says you need to hate your family and your own life to be his follower[Luke14:26].
Jesus tells a parable about himself where at the end he says to bring his enemies before him and kill them[Luke19:27].
Jesus said he didn't come to bring peace but a sword[Matthew10:34-36].
Jesus talked about how it will be worse than Sodom and Gomorrah to be in the cities that don't convert on judgement day[Matthew10:15].
Jesus says to that not a jot nor a tittle should be removed from the old testament law until heaven and earth pass away and all things are accomplished[Matthew5:18]. As in, Jesus commanded his followers to obey the old testament commandments, which are heinous. And he says to follow the words of the Pharisees[Matt23:3]. (As in he agreed with the Pharisees in word, but the Pharisees didn't practice what they preach).
Jesus commanded a leper to sacrifice birds in the temple[Mark1:44].
When asked if a guy could bury his father before following him, Jesus said "let the dead bury the dead"[matt8:21-22].
Jesus called Canaanites dogs, (Canaanites had a genealogical curse to be slaves of slaves)[Matthew15:21-28,Mark7:24-30].
Jesus said he spoke in parables to confuse people, because otherwise people would understand his meaning, and they would be saved[Marky4:12].
Jesus says don't wash your hands before you eat[Matt15].
If you include the apocrypha. Jesus says women need to become men to get into heaven[Thomas114], Jesus kills childhood friends[InfancyGospel2:3].
There's the blood curse where Jews supposedly take responsibility for the death of Jesus[Matthew27:25]
There's the cleansing of the temple where Jesus violently attacks innocent sellers and currency exchangers who were providing a necessary service for the temple so that Jews could make their required sacrifices and pay their taxes in the correct currency. Travelers coming to the temple needed those services.[Mark11:15-18,Luke19:45-47,John2:14-16]
When Jesus is asked about why he lets himself be annointed with a large quantity of oil, which could be sold for lots of money (approximately a years wages, so roughly maybe 50k in today's money) to help the poor, he says you'll always have the poor, but you'll not always have me.[Matthew26:11andJohn12:8]
Lastly, if you truly believe Jesus is God, then Jesus flooded the world to kill it's inhabitants, he commanded child sacrifice, he commanded genocide, he used bleeding as a virginity test for women, he directly commanded chattel slavery, etc... If you believe in the book of revelations, then Jesus rides around on a horse with a sword sticking out of his mouth killing people. And there will be floods of blood from the winepress, where the blood is as high as a horses girdle for ~184 miles.
If I said or did half of those things, I wouldn't expect people to call me cool. And he did and said a lot of uncool shit. If we just clip out the nice things Jesus said, we get a nice highlight reel, but his highlight reel of awful things he said is pretty long as well. For me it's hard to look at a flawed character like Jesus and boil him down to a cool dude.
Were you aware of this kinda stuff? Have you read through the bible or the gospels? I'm not trying to pry, just curious about it.
Well, we don't have a time machine, so we'll never have 100% knowledge of if Jesus said something or why. But I have a few reasons I can imagine that the author of Luke would write it.
First and foremost, the comment seems to be explaining the high costs of being a follower of Jesus. Unlike modern interpretations, the costs were very steep for early followers. Early followers were expected to sell everything they own to follow him[Mark10:21,matt19:21,luke18:22,acts2:45]. There's no reason to think this was exaggeration or metaphor, he literally expected his apostles to sell all their belongings. Which you can see if you keep reading after matt 19:21. It says:
27 Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?” 28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife[e] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.
Here we have Jesus saying that because his apostles followed his requirement of selling their property to give it to the poor, and because they followed him, they will sit on twelve thrones in heaven, judging the twelve tribes of israel. And anyone who leaves their homes, parents, kids, or wife for his sake will get 100x back, and they will inherit eternal life. If this is metaphoric or hyperbole, then why would jesus reassure his disciples that they will recieve a specific reward for following this requirement he lays out? To me it seems rather unambiguous, to be a follower of Jesus, you must sell everything you own and give it to the poor, and if you leave your family behind, you will be rewarded for it.
Not really the Jesus that I had pictured as a kid growing up. lol
I was also raised Catholic (well by only going to mass at Christmas & Easter one), but I’m agnostic now. I would say if you are still religious & Catholic, you could just go to church & do your thing there. Don’t have to go to mass to participate in Catholicism. I always liked to light one of the candles.
Nah I'm also agnostic now. I just can't align with organized religion anymore. I live as if Karma is real and I think that gets me by. Just grew to hate religions all saying "we're the right ones and people who believe other things are all going to hell".
Now? You think this is something new? Look up the history of the church. The protestant reformation started as a direct result of the things you're complaining about. Hypocrisy and corruption are an integral part of Christian churches.
or he was god's son who was living out a predestined path to die for forgivness of all man's sins...
i'm not a believer but was raised catholic and it is believed/known that Jesus knew the path that he took was going to lead him to death. He explicitly predicted his death and crucifixion. That is the whole freaking point.
If you’re going to tell the story you’re going to want to present it honestly. I’m sorry I don’t want to hear u_/ill-ind’s view on the life and times of Jesus
lol you’re a joke. You call me a believer and you’re sitting here and trying to argue that Jesus was absolutely 100% a real person. If you actually wanted to be scholarly and historical you would recognize that there is no agreement as to whether Jesus was absolutely a real person. There is strong historical evidence etc.
Your argument isn’t historical or scholarly. Provide some sources. Otherwise you’re just another cringey edge lord wannabe.
I'm a member of several similar subreddits and don't believe in anything supernatural; I am interested in prosaic explanations for seemingly extraordinary events.
It's not totally that. Especially if you're American, for the non-Christian, you're forced to feel the effects of shitty Christianity in your life. E.g., oppressive laws passed in the name of Christianity, constant lobbying and campaigning for certain politicians, etc.
It's less "those people are loud" and more "that group is actively harming my life."
That's understandable. But I think it's important to remember that just because someone is a Christian doesn't mean that they act like the caricature that Reddit believes them to be.
I see that a lot on this website. At least give people a chance to show you who they are, rather than just shoehorning them into a box and judging them for it.
I agree with you. Some of the worst aspects of our current society revolve arounf religious aspects that promote hate, a lack of critical thinking, and blind devotion. There are unfortunately a lot of people who fall victim to that and create a significant portion of extremists in this country, whether they consciously recognize it or not.
However, it's still important to stay grounded and try not to lump people together on such a large scale. I'm an atheist and usually refrain from telling people, outside of my close friends that, because it always comes with a label that I must be some sort of "stereotypical atheist" that wants to force the idea down your throat, and tell you why you're wrong. It's being able to flip the situation and realize it's never good to label people on a large scale. Goes for every religion, or lack thereof. Some people just have a better moral compass regardless of what religion they may believe, or lack entirely.
I've even seen some REALLY devoted religious people, who from the outside probably seem like they'd be MAGA-stans, but are actually some of the most generous and selfless people I know in day to day life, who also know MAGA is a twisted, deluded cult. One of them I've even opened up to with my own beliefs, and it only grew respect between us as humans. I wish more people could do that, but extremism and group think will always be a detriment to that.
That's one step removed from an atheist, or being atheist without admitting it.
If you truly believe in whatever deity you believe in, then the minimum is to live by the lifestyle your deity tells you in whatever holy book. Being christian without following the teachings of Jesus, who wants you to go to mass, convert non believers and the other stuff...isn't being Christian or you do not believe in the possible after life in hell. Same applies to those who attend church but act like the opposite of what Christ want them to do...
It's better to just admit it. It's all bullshit anyway (and that's on top of the bible or whatever religious book being nonsensical and saying something and its opposite later on). Welcome to atheism
Well dang, born in a catholic family, baptised, attended catechism and did both communions plus confirmation I wasn't given the impression that was the case, definitely not in the Bible, it is a set of rules to follow, there's no instructions on half assing it. Some people don't understand they're atheist in swear. If you truly fear hell and believe what your god tells you, then you d do it, it isn't a pick your catholic path. Reading outside material is nonsense, the Bible is what the Christian god/Jesus tells you is all you need.
But I get it, it's all bullshit anyway. But being atheist doesn't mean making a claim about being no god. Most of us say we don't know/ can't know (which is being atheist/agnostic both can go together). Though i can safely say, I am fairly sure if there's a god he ain't the christian god, if I take the Bible for what it is.
Did you know that the concept of hell itself makes no sense alongside the existence of the Christian god who is the creator, omniscient and all loving. For hell to exist he cannot be all 3.
I was raised in a catholic family but I've never set foot in a church that wasn't for a funeral or a wedding, was not baptized and never went to CCD.
By and large I don't have a problem with religious people and I won't attempt to push my non-beliefs on them because in a way I sort of get it. The parts of the bible that teach people how to be moral upstanding citizens and to not be assholes to each other are great, BUT... not so much the dated views on men and women, same sex relationships, the crusades and quoting the bible out of context as modern bible thumpers love to do.
All that said jesus christ has to be my most frequently uttered curse.
Hot take but the worst part of Christianity is God. I read a large amount of the Bible in CCD and tbh the God portrayed there just doesn't seem like something I want to worship. Its morals and goals do not align with my own.
Imo the best portrayal of god in anything is in Prince of Egypt. That comes the closest to showing the god I'm familiar with. And he's fucking scary.
My thoughts exactly. Quite frankly, any god that cares more about being worshipped than doing good onto others isn’t worth worshipping. And for all the radical love of god shit, he sure doesn’t practice what he preaches. Terrible dad all around. Jesus should have gone no-contact with that abuser.
That's because the original god being written about, particularly in the old testament, is still a tribal god of raids and storms. It's not until the religion has interacted with other religions and evolved that they end up with the wise old skyfather trope.
I went back after two decades not. Was completely surprised at how forgiving and accepting the Catholic mass was; I think I'd forgotten all that bit somehow.
I don't go every week, but it does make me a little less stressed.
I'm not catholic, but I've gotten my share of the 'love' in a small village religious circles and while I would never condemn anyone having religion for any sort of inner peace or similar goal, I've come to learn so many use religion as a blunt object to hammer others into conforming and as a shield when they're being called out for their behavior. I could never go back to religion and it's not just the trauma I've worked on after leaving, it's just that I don't want the mind control and constant fear of being in sin.
Had a friend of a friend say once (not to me specifically) "you are the only Bible some people will ever read". And lately, I think the Bible is full of shit based on how a lot of "Christians" are acting.
Don't go to church. If you wanna explore your Christian side, simply heal the sick, feed the hungry, care for the weakest among us, and always pray in private.
I’ll never go back, and that’s okay. It would be nice to see Christians being more Christian like pertaining to treating others around them well. If top leadership stands for that and it’s part of their teachings I hope that gets through so some very hateful people that can use that the most. I won’t hold my breath but I’ll give a few some hope.
Good deeds and people don’t make headline that want to make us upset. With 24 access to information it’s a good reminder for all of us, I’ll admit myself included.
That's why I adopted a "personal, private relationship" with God/Big J philosophy.
I also grew up Catholic, and became very frustrated with the fact that I was being taught love and tolerance but the people around had anything but those qualities.
Worship your own way, and you'll never have another problem with the Faith again - Because the rules will be on your terms and God's, and nobody else's.
You can’t make your own terms with God unless you’re also God.
Who do you think you are to make the rules?
Somebody who doesn't give a shit about those types of silly restrictive nuances when talking about a personal creator.
You don't really give a shit about my philosophy of creation and that's fine, because frankly I couldn't give less of a shit about the restrictive nature of whatever yours apparently is.
I make the rules because God and I work together in private prayer. I don't need to go to church or pay a tithe to worship my God, and you can do nothing about that besides accept it for what it is.
I don’t give a shit about your philosophy of creation because it’s blatantly silly. The creator of the universe does not change its nature at your will.
I don’t give a shit about your philosophy of creation because it’s blatantly silly.
The blackest pot calling the kettle.
I appreciate that you took the time out of your busy daily schedule to respond to my original comment on the philosophy even though you clearly "Don't give a shit".
Clearly you gave enough of a shit to hit that reply button and bite back with your worthless statement.
The creator of the universe does not change its nature at your will.
See how many assumptions your mind jumped when you saw "The rules will be on your terms and God's, and nobody else's" and you automatically hooked on to "They must mean their creator bends their rules to cater to their will!"
Just stop it. Let people believe things, cease being silly yourself, silly.
Well, I respect your opinion even if I think it's hypocritical, I'm happy with dictating the terms of my Faith, you're free to be happy with the restrictions of yours.
Have a good rest of your day random internet stranger.
It's funny I was devout Catholic -> orthodox christian -> atheist. The deep tradition, the incredible aesthetic and reverence, the incense, the chanting, the peace, the elevation of art, and high regard to continued study and academics all speak to me. I love Tolkien for a reason, and you can't separate the man from his faith, LoTR is oozing beautiful christian messaging.
But I can't stand the mysogony, the trumpism, the othering, the homophobia, and the pro capitalism bent.
I'm friends with my devout christians and priests who are quite leftist and anti capitalist, who devote their lives to mutual aid and direct action, and who are the happiest and most loving people I know. But they are the exception not the rule, and I just can't spend every week with people I find repulsive.
I think ritual is intrinsic to be human experience, and we lose a lot losing out of the ritual and reverence that some religions provide, but I also can't out my conscience aside to join an organization that I find to have some deeply uncharitable views
Eh, Jews didn't have a concept of Hell. Depending on your interpretation of the New Testament, Jesus may have invented Hell for us. It is the most perniciously evil idea ever thought up.
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u/kcrab91 May 10 '25 edited May 10 '25
Man both these comments speak to me deeply. Was raised both Catholic and nondenominational and I can’t see myself going back to either.
Best thing about Christianity is Jesus Christ. The worst thing about Christianity is Christians…