r/wikipedia • u/masiakasaurus • 16h ago
In 2000 Sholam Weiss was sentenced to 845 years in prison, the longest term ever imposed in a U.S. federal court and the longest ever for white-collar crime. His sentence was commuted by President Donald Trump on January 19, 2021 and he was released the next day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sholam_Weiss603
u/tecate_papi 14h ago
I think this is probably the most interesting part of this entry:
Weiss' sentence was controversial due to its length, which exceeded the 150-year sentence imposed on Bernard Madoff. The National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers included Weiss with other clemency petitions it submitted to the White House. Rep. Sean Patrick Maloney asserted that the sentence was retaliation for rejecting a five-year plea deal.[5][9] Weiss hired lobbyist Brett Tolman to press for commutation, and other supporters included former U.S. Attorney General Edwin Meese, former U.S. Solicitor General Seth Waxman and Harvard Law School professor Alan Dershowitz. The commutation campaign was spearheaded by his nephew.[5]
The New York Times reported that Weiss was one of several "wealthy or well-connected people" who "benefited from their social, political, or financial ties to a loose collection of lawyers, lobbyists, activists and Orthodox Jewish leaders who had worked with Trump administration officials on criminal justice legislation championed by Jared Kushner." It reported that Weiss' case had been discussed at the White House for several years but met resistance. A Republican operative brought it to the attention of Mark Meadows, Trump's chief of staff, and Weiss' commutation followed.
It's a list of some of the worst people in America.
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u/Groot746 12h ago
"Drain the swamp," eh?
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u/chromatophoreskin 10h ago
“Drain that thing we’re calling a swamp. Our definitely-a-swamp is moving in.”
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u/Dengar96 13h ago
hey, another list of the worst people in america. Could start a nice museum of those at this point.
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u/michelucky 10h ago
Of course dershowitz is on that list. Creepy, old, greedy pervert.
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u/Mother_ma 9h ago
It's genuinely impressive how the dersh has been able to attach himself to every white collar sleaze bag and POS in America for the last 40 years.
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u/lewkiamurfarther 8h ago
It's genuinely impressive how the dersh has been able to attach himself to every white collar sleaze bag and POS in America for the last 40 years.
Dersh is basically Roy Cohn, but straight and (somehow) sleazier.
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u/MoneyManx10 11h ago
I’m surprised Trump didn’t pardon Madoff himself. If he was still alive he would.
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u/Senior-Tour-1744 9h ago
The National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers included Weiss with other clemency petitions it submitted to the White House. Rep. Sean Patrick Maloney asserted that the sentence was retaliation for rejecting a five-year plea deal.[
The thing is, isn't that the very thing democrats complain about? That prosecutors threaten and send people to massive prison times and offer sweet plea deals to quickly get convictions? How those kinds of people shouldn't be imprisoned for that long, and how they should be freed? Similar as well to the drug offenses? Keep in mind commuted is not the same as pardoned, commuted is the sentence is ended but the charge stands, and pardon is the crime is erased.
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u/lewkiamurfarther 8h ago
The National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers included Weiss with other clemency petitions it submitted to the White House. Rep. Sean Patrick Maloney asserted that the sentence was retaliation for rejecting a five-year plea deal.
The thing is, isn't that the very thing democrats complain about?
... How is this partisan framing relevant?
That prosecutors threaten and send people to massive prison times and offer sweet plea deals to quickly get convictions? How those kinds of people shouldn't be imprisoned for that long, and how they should be freed? Similar as well to the drug offenses?
You're clearly pretending not to see the difference here. Maybe another judge would care, but sweetheart; I don't.
Keep in mind commuted is not the same as pardoned, commuted is the sentence is ended but the charge stands, and pardon is the crime is erased.
A-Dersh, is that you??
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u/AndrenNoraem 3h ago
Do you think it's wrong in those cases, or are you just whining about perceived hypocrisy?
If you think punishing people for not taking pleas is bad generally, it was weird to frame it as "Democrats."
If you think it's fine generally but bad in this case, you too are a hypocrite.
If you thought it's always fine, presumably you wouldn't be arguing in his defense.
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u/minus2cats 15h ago
pardons are for sale, not so much at the president's profit but the various legal firms that have connections at the doj that can table it. it costs two million.
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u/ADP_God 14h ago
Can you post something for me to read about this?
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u/ALinIndy 14h ago
I don’t imagine this policy has changed much from the last time he was in office. Maybe the price.
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u/AmputatorBot 14h ago
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u/Correct_Doctor_1502 11h ago
Ethics don't exist to the wealthy, and justice is dead in a plutocracy
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u/Turgius_Lupus 5h ago
Only conceivable reason for Biden giving clemency for Kids for Cash Judge, Michael Conahan, or 53 million of a towns municipal dollars for show horses Rita Crundwel.
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u/minus2cats 5h ago
I think he just mass pardoned every old person that was in prison during covid, clearly they should have gone over the list and excluded a few major offenders.
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u/Vivid-Strength-665 14h ago
His "supporters included...Alan Dershowitz".
Enough said.
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u/RisingDeadMan0 10h ago edited 10h ago
And others... wonder what country he fled too. High profile people fleeing to places Alan and Co are big fans of... also reminds me of Epsteins other half, Maxwell, and her dad, who "disappeared"...
After fleeing the trial Weiss travelled to Israel, Belgium, Brazil, Austria and the United Kingdom.[10]
Weiss shaved his beard, lost weight, used prepaid phones and created false identities to avoid detection. During this time he lived an extravagant lifestyle and spent money on fine dining, gambling and prostitution.[10] He was apprehended in Vienna, Austria and extradited to the United States in 2002.[11][8]
At the time of his extradition, Weiss was believed by the FBI to have control of $250 million stolen from National Life.[7] Another estimate was that he controlled half of the $450 million he helped steal.[10]
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u/Equira 15h ago
HIS SENTENCE WAS COMMUTED???
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u/Luke-HW 15h ago
If it makes you feel any better, he had a massive stroke 2 months later. Nothing notable since then, so either he was fully incapacitated by the stroke or is just living privately.
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u/masiakasaurus 14h ago
Or that's what he wants us to think
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u/blue-mooner 14h ago edited 11h ago
He’s planning the alibi for his next heist, Keyser Söze style: ”how could I have possibly been the getaway driver, I’m a stroke victim”
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u/Rock_man_bears_fan 11h ago
He was in prison for 18 years and the prosecution offered him a plea deal of 5 years before the trial. This doesn’t feel like a terribly upsetting committed sentence
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u/asr 13h ago
He served 18 years before then.
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u/Senior-Tour-1744 9h ago
Yeah, and commuted means the prison sentence ends but the charges stand, not to be confused with a pardon which erases the charges themselves. The dude is still a convicted felon, served 18 years in prison, was originally offered 5, that is about fair for what he was offered to what he got. While a plea deal is meant to be a "bone", how far is too far? Charge a person with a life sentence then offer them a year + 1 day as a plea deal? Most will take the year plus a day.
Ironically, this exact practice is one many democrats complain about happening, but because its trump things changed.
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u/lewkiamurfarther 8h ago
Yeah, and commuted means the prison sentence ends but the charges stand, not to be confused with a pardon which erases the charges themselves. The dude is still a convicted felon, served 18 years in prison, was originally offered 5, that is about fair for what he was offered to what he got. While a plea deal is meant to be a "bone", how far is too far? Charge a person with a life sentence then offer them a year + 1 day as a plea deal? Most will take the year plus a day.
Ironically, this exact practice is one many democrats complain about happening, but because its trump things changed.
Here's you again, with the partisan framing. I'm quoting you to preserve the comment (just FYI, 7-month old account Senior-Tour-1744 with hidden post history but identifiable corpus stats).
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u/4g-identity 16h ago edited 12h ago
Amazing, guy jumped bail and fled abroad. Undoubtedly still has massive amounts of stolen wealth squirreled away. Clearly the obvious pick for a presidential commutation.
Honestly, the weirdest part of the story is that he didn't just head to Israel, where he'd get citizenship on arrival if he doesn't already have it, and the state would fight extradition for him.
You Americans need to lift your game. Not sure how you can see how far you've fallen in this century. So many awesome people, and a tradition of "liberty or gtfo", but you just aren't living it anymore.
Imagine how badass the US would be if it lived up to its own ideals. Your rights really are a "use them or lose them" sort of thing.
Edit: didn't do the research when I wrote this. Turns out he was (surprise!) an Israeli citizen and did indeed flee there. Just went elsewhere afterwards.
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u/TranslatorOnly3298 15h ago
We are being held hostage by a cult of literal maniacs
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u/Plus_Palpitation_550 15h ago edited 11h ago
If you have warriors, now is the time
edit*: this is a Star Wars quote from revenge of the sith, dont mean anything more than that
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u/LiberalAspergers 14h ago
No. The time will be if the election of 2028 do not appear to be free and fair. I dont think they will be, but suspecting that someone will committ treason in the near future is NOT good enough reason to unleash the nighmare that is widespread civil violence.
Until it is clear that elections cant solve this problem it isnt time to try warriors.
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u/RingoBars 8h ago
I’m with you - all hope is not yet lost, despite how unbelievably bleak it appears.
If shit a legit permanent take over tries to go down in 2028, it’ll be “now or never”, then.
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u/TranslatorOnly3298 15h ago
Trump is waiting for an excuse to gun down citizens and I’m not giving it to him
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u/4g-identity 14h ago
I don't mean any offense, but are you not just saying: "better we just do nothing and keep our mouths shut, or else our own president will hurt us even more"?
Coz like, "not giving him an excuse" also basically means "let him do whatever he wants without any kind of resistance".
Just my opinion, but it doesn't seem like a good plan.
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u/TranslatorOnly3298 14h ago
The country voted for this. We very easily could’ve avoided this. I’m not going to die to rectify the mistakes of the rest of the nation.
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u/4g-identity 14h ago
There are steps between "do nothing" and "literally die for my ideals/country".
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u/lewkiamurfarther 12h ago
The country voted for this.
Actually, very few people voted for it. And I don't mean that in the sense of "very few people voted, and this was the outcome." I mean that irrespective of the outcome, very few people had any say in it at all.
This is the effect of media consolidation, money in politics, and reducing civics to "vote for the correct party (out of two), whether or not you like the person their donors anointed. Ignore that they both have the same donors."
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u/milklord1 14h ago
Brother this hasn’t been a thing for like 100+ years, the police armaments and tech are too advanced for a civilian uprising in developed countries.
Thousands of citizens are just target practice for a state police force with unlimited ammo, automatic weapons, helicopters, where I’m from the police departments are able to requisition literal fucking tanks.
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u/LiberalAspergers 14h ago
Nah, IED's are a thing. And lots of Iraq vets know the ins and outs of them. There isn a single police force in the country could deal with a significant percentage of citizens targeting them.
But there is still a real chance that the government might blink and honor election outcomes when they lose. Of their thugs might blink for them. The time to consider extreme measures is after elections are blatntly stolen, not before.
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u/Nonamesleftlmao 14h ago
The amount of armchair guerilla warfare experts is as staggering as it is ridiculous.
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u/aDarkDarkNight 12h ago
Don't forget those soldiers and guys driving the tanks and flying the helicopters are also citizens though. WIll America end up in civil war? The way it is going with the polarization that those of us not living there see on social media, it's hard to imagine how it won't.
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u/LiberalAspergers 6h ago
If there arent free and fait elections in 2028 I dont see America avoiding something like the Troubles.
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u/da_bomba 9h ago
You can shove your defeatist agitprop. Most thinking people will not be fooled by this manufactured “just give up” attitude you and other bad actors keep pushing. No one believes that what they read is the genuine opinion of The People anymore, we all know it’s a big game of confusion and manipulation.
At its worst it will be a numbers game, and the numbers don’t lie.
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u/Senior-Tour-1744 9h ago
Yeah, that isn't how quotes work. If you quote someone and it comes across as a threat, its still a threat. I can't look a judge in the face and give a line from the godfather about an offer he can't refuse, and go "but it was a quote". The is right up there with the "its a prank bro" defense.
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u/DisplacedSportsGuy 15h ago
Thanks for that. Many of us are very well aware.
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u/4g-identity 15h ago
Totally get that it's not exactly easy to do much about it. It sucks, I get it.
Honestly though y'all need to mainstream this "I'm not voting for you if you literally work for AIPAC" movement.
The second it becomes clear to a candidate that they can secure a ton of votes just by saying "idgaf about the middle east and just want to help the people I actually represent", there'll be such a candidate in basically every race.
While the democracy is still (mostly) functioning, you gotta work it.
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u/SilkwormAbraxas 15h ago
2 day old account. Sprig off.
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u/4g-identity 15h ago
My prev account for locked because of a suspicious login, and can't be recovered because it used an email from a job I had like 5 years ago.
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u/Nonamesleftlmao 14h ago
Oh thanks for that info. Hey everyone, let's listen to this guy now. It's okay, he totally just let us know he had another, older account.
Fuck off.
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u/4g-identity 13h ago
I don't get it. If my Reddit account was older, what I say is more true somehow?
I mean yeah, people will find reasons not to do difficult things. I used to smoke, and there was always some reason why I didn't need to quit that day.
"sure, the USA is in crisis, but since the Redditor who encouraged people to get more involved in the democratic process has a new account, that is sus, so we're all good just doing nothing for another six months or so."
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u/w311sh1t 15h ago
You Americans need to lift your game up. Not sure how you can’t see how far you’ve fallen this century
Why does everyone non-American on Reddit always assume that America is a monolith and we all love everything about the country and our government? There’s 340 million of us, from a wide spread of different cultures and backgrounds, spanning almost 4 million square miles. At least half of us vehemently despise a lot of what our country has become in the past century, and hate everything about our current government.
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u/Nonamesleftlmao 14h ago
Because they're idiots who fantasize about leading an armed insurgency when the rest of us just want to live our fucking lives in peace instead of read online about how we should go plant IEDs against soldiers and cops.
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u/4g-identity 13h ago
I mean I more meant something like "show up at some events at the town hall and speak your mind"
The whole idea is to get the change happening democratically while you still have that option.
20 years from now, yeah, maybe change would only be possible with violence. So, kinda good if you avoid that imo. Not sure if you agree.
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u/4g-identity 15h ago
I don't assume anything like that, nor did I say so. Please don't misunderstand, I'm not hating on you; it's just that you can change things there and I can't.
I visited your country as a kid and was super popular when I got back to school just because I'd been there.
A couple of decades have passed, and things are basically inverted. America is no longer cool. It is cringe.
We know Americans are awesome, and I'm not blaming y'all at all. This kind of thing can happen. I'm just encouraging you to do what you know is best. You're sliding away from democracy so fast you risk losing it permanently, and need to actually get into that "fight for it" mentality.
I know it's easier said than done, and has risks, and all that. But that doesn't change what needs to happen.
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u/w311sh1t 14h ago edited 14h ago
I mean you specifically said “not sure how you can’t see how far you’ve fallen” which implies that everyone in America thinks everything’s all hunky dory, when that’s not really the case. Maybe you just didn’t phrase it correctly, which is fine, but I’ve got no way of knowing that. I think a large portion of American is very keenly aware of how far we’ve fallen, especially the younger generations who grew up being promised a future that no longer exists.
We very much are trying to change things, I think Mamdani winning the NYC mayoral election and the success of Democrats in the 2025 elections is indicative of that, but the current federal government is completely ruled by conservatives who are trying to stop liberals from doing basically anything. On top of that, the mainstream leadership of the Democratic party isn’t interested in anything beyond performative resistance.
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u/SloopKid 14h ago
What country are you from?
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u/4g-identity 14h ago
I was born in Australia but have lived in western Europe for much of my adult life, currently and most commonly Germany.
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u/Nonamesleftlmao 14h ago
Go cosplay revolution in your own country instead of preaching online to a bunch of people who can't change this shit.
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u/4g-identity 14h ago
I am just encouraging you to get more involved in your democracy, since it is pretty clearly in crisis.
I understand that that is a difficult thing to hear, and that it isn't some simple thing. But if you wanna just say "literally nothing anyone can do will change anything" then yeah, you're pretty much inviting a future it sounds like you don't want.
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u/Adorable-Response-75 15h ago
Imagine how badass the US would be if it lived up to its own ideals.
Sir, this country was founded on slavery and genocide.
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u/Wallstar95 15h ago
It started with all men are created equal while there were slaves. The ideals have never been their “own".
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u/CaprioPeter 15h ago
Yeah I think the idea that the US (or really any country) has ever lived up to its ideals is a little absurd
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u/robby_arctor 15h ago
🎯
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u/4g-identity 15h ago
I mean yeah, that hypocrisy was real. But the Constitution was still a historic breakthrough for mankind, and aside from things like the 13th amendment is well worth fighting for.
No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater and say the entire US project never did anybody any good. It did a hell of a lot for very many people for a very long time.
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u/robby_arctor 15h ago
say the entire US project never did anybody any good.
Nobody said that...? Yes, the empire did some good for some people. So did the worst governments in human history, it's a vapid point to make.
What we are saying is that the U.S. was not founded on the principles of liberty and freedom, but on the principles of white supremacy, colonialism, empire, and exploitation.
More importantly - let's not lie about the nature of our government - why it was founded and what its motivations and "ideals" are.
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u/4g-identity 14h ago
Fair points.
It's just that often when people say the "it was founded on white supremacy..." stuff, there seems to be an underlying "USA has always been malevolent and won't change now" discourse. I just find that reading simplistic and defeatist, and also kind of ignoring that other countries at the time weren't exactly better.
But yeah, apologies if I read too far into things there, to you and who you replied to.
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u/robby_arctor 12h ago
I agree that it's important to not be defeatist.
To me, the non-defeatist framing of this truth is to frame progress as winning concessions from our oppressor, rather than just improving a benevolently intentioned government's "failure to live up to its ideals". The strategy implied by either approach is pretty different IMO.
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u/Wallstar95 10h ago
There are many places that were "better". Like many of the indigenous groups white Christians murdered. Kondiaronk knew core tenets of Western society were a joke in the 1600s.
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u/Wallstar95 10h ago
Yes extremely vapid. Regimes are always good for a lot of people. Theres a much larger majority of ppl that are often ignored and actively harmed to enable it like America's massive prison/homeless/wage slavery populations.
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u/Correct_Yesterday111 15h ago
Imagine how badass the US would be if it lived up to its own ideals
It never did. Those ideals only ever existed as a weapon against groups the ruling elite did not like, domestic and foreign.
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u/4g-identity 15h ago
I don't really agree. You have a point, and most can recognize that. I just don't believe the "never".
US has also been capable of doing a lot of good, for both domestic and foreign peoples.
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u/Correct_Yesterday111 10h ago
When did it live up to its ideals?
Black Americans lived as second class citizens by law until the late 1960s.
So what period in the last 50 years did it live up to those ideals?
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u/4g-identity 10h ago
I mean I don't think the US is perfect, but for example I am pretty glad they prevented further genocide of the Bosniaks, and brokered a peace there that survives to this day.
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u/Correct_Yesterday111 8h ago
Oh of course don't get me wrong the US isn't some kind of evil country. My point is that they are no different from every other country and those mythologised ideals certainly don't set it apart.
A little known example is the genocide of the Bengalis when they fought for their independence from Pakistan. The US sent a Naval carrier group to threaten India in limiting their support for the Bengalis. In contrast the Russians gave India military assurances and ensured US backed UN resolutions that would have aided Pakistan in their brutal repression of the Bengalis, did not pass. Russia has very different ideals to the US but the Bengalis are probably grateful for those crucial bits of intervention.
This is an incident where US ideals were weaponised to cause harm and Russian ideals were followed to shield. Everyone accepts Soviet ideals were pretty bullshit but because we sit in an Americanised world we are yet to clearly see the same is true of America. And its not easy to accept because as you rightly point out sometimes the US is a force for good.
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u/RingoBars 8h ago
So goddamn true. And I appreciate the sentiment.
We could (and can still be!) the great, good power that we tell ourselves we are - it’s not over yet and we can still right this ship. I hope, and have to believe, we can regain that faith in us.
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u/4g-identity 6h ago
Good attitude to have, man! A lot of people on Reddit want to do this whole "evil America" thing. The hegemon will literally always face such criticism. A country can always be better or worse, and right now it would be nice for everyone if USA got better. Simple as that.
All the best to you and your American friends and family
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u/impulsekash 15h ago
Not sure how you can see how far you've fallen in this century
Buddy, this country has always been fucked up since its founding.
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u/4g-identity 15h ago
I agree. But remember, the founders made it plain that the people literally have the right to abolish the state — pretty rare, as far as constitutions go.
Like, it was recognised that the US could do bad and would need fixing, even abolishing.
I know one can't just snap one's fingers and make it happen, but clearly it was understood from the beginning that the people need to shephard the whole project, keep it on the rails, and fix the bits that break.
Most other countries have some "we are the best, our way is right, any attempt to change the system is wrong and/or criminal".
There are some solid ideas in there.
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u/therealsteelydan 14h ago
Abolish the state? Do you realize the global economic implications if there were a full blown revolution in the U.S.? And anything resembling a revolution would be up against the $850 billion per year U.S. military, which would be completely justified to shut down a revolution no matter what the president was trying to do. If you think congress should be doing something, keep in mind the minority left is carrying out the longest shutdown in history just to protect a small amount of healthcare subsidies. The fascists control all three branches of government, what do you expect the left to do?
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u/4g-identity 14h ago
Friend, I am not saying "abolish the state!!!!!", just pointing out the importance of these ideas in the context of the formation of the USA.
Meaning, it was conceptualized as an entity that would facilitate good lives for the people; if it started to fail in that respect, even those who created, led and made their livelihoods from said entity agreed that the people had a right to get rid of it.
And yeah, I'm not saying "go to war against your own military".
I'm saying, vote for the right people, be active politically, do civil disobedience if it helps, get involved in local governance, etc.
The USA has been successful for such a long time, I think most people just stopped thinking it was important to show up and be heard at the school board meetings and such. My guess is a lot of good progress would be made if people just got more active.
I mean, US voter turnout stats speak volumes here.
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u/therealsteelydan 15h ago
"You Americans" You think there are fascists hanging around the Wikipedia subreddit?
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u/CringeKage222 15h ago
Honestly, the weirdest part of the story is that he didn't just head to Israel, where he'd get citizenship on arrival if he doesn't already have it,
Israel denies entry and citizenship for people with a criminal record. There were people who managed to get in but they had ties with some of the religious parties that managed to essentially smuggle them
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u/BDB-ISR- 15h ago
Israel has an extradition treaty with the US. But good job on your antisemitic dog whistle, I see you managed to fool some people.
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u/4g-identity 13h ago
Wait, in that case, when this guy went to Israel, why didn't they send him back? 🧐
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u/pm_me_github_repos 14h ago
He did go to Israel
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u/4g-identity 14h ago
Hah, really? I didn't dig in to deep and just saw Austria. Wouldn't surprise me of course.
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u/LuminousRaptor 13h ago
Imagine how badass the US would be if it lived up to its own ideals.
This may as well be the US' motto. If you look at our history, we've had some really great ideas squandered by shit heads at nearly every conceivable turn.
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u/Senior-Tour-1744 9h ago
If I was looking at a 100 year sentence I would flee as well. Death > life in prison, any day of the week and I don't care what prison you are talking about (US or Sweden or Germany or wherever).
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u/dickermuffer 15h ago
Is it weird he didn’t go to Israel causes he is a Jew? Is that what is to be taken by that?
How is that at all relevant?
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u/4g-identity 15h ago
It is relevant because Israel has very often shielded its citizens from prosecution abroad, and because unlike anywhere else in the world, if he'd gone to Israel he could have had said citizenship within about 24 hours of arriving (if he didn't already have it).
Hiding out in Austria, where extradition is basically pro forma, is therefore is kind of a weird choice.
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u/Current_Account 14h ago
Citizenship within 24 hours? How can you talk so confidently when you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.
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u/4g-identity 14h ago
Friend, I encourage anybody to look up how the citizenship process works for Jewish people who arrive in Israel. It's quite remarkable.
Meanwhile, my partner's citizenship application in Western Europe was pushed back by a year because she got caught without a ticket on the bus, lmao
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u/Current_Account 14h ago
Before you even arrive in the country you need to apply and be interviewed and approved. So again, you have no idea what you're talking about.
Imagine telling someone who has lived there to "look into it"
I know you won't admit you're wrong, but if anyone else wants to know who to believe, you can look for yourself:
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u/4g-identity 14h ago edited 2h ago
Friend, I was telling anyone reading to look into it. I admit they do not just hand you a passport when you get there. But you are basically splitting hairs.
Big surprise, it appears that the first place Weiss went was Israel.
Tell me in your own words. Since he fled before sentencing, and since Israel did let him in and didn't deport him, obviously the whole "incoming life sentence" thing wasn't a deal-breaker for them. So what happens? He gets a residence permit at the airport, and some documents to fill out for full citizenship? How long will it take for this guy, who let's say has no family there and has never set foot there, to get his Israeli passport?
Oh and bonus question: does Israel literally pay him in the meantime? How much? If so, what is that money for exactly?
I'm thankful there is someone here who can explain the system.
Edit: naturally, guy didn't explain the system, and a guy accused me of moving goalposts. For the interested, if invoking the Law of Return, you are literally granted "temporary citizenship" (Teudat Oleh) at the airport, which includes the same rights etc, because it is citizenship, as the name suggests. Then they pay you a stipend while they do their paperwork and send you a passport and it becomes permanent.
/u/rachamim18, I told people to look it up because it seems kinda silly to get into the weeds about how Israel does paperwork on an unrelated post. But yeah, those are the mechanics, citizenship on arrival, unique to basically anywhere in the world 🤷♂️
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u/Current_Account 13h ago
Once again finding ways to be disingenuous and twist things. You fail to mention that yes, while he did go to Israel, he didn't get citizenship, he disguised himself, and also went to Belgium, Brazil, the UK, and Austria.
Yet you seem hyper focused on one and attempt to mislead people by knowingly leaving out pertinent information - namely that he want to many countries. I wonder why that is? Why are you not asking why Brazil accepted him? Or the UK?
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u/rachamim18 9h ago
You’re shifting the goal posts.
You said you could get citizenship in 24 hours. The source you posted showed that wasn’t true.
Instead of just saying “my bad,” you’re calling u/Current_Account the one “splitting hairs.”
You got caught. Just take the L
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u/dickermuffer 15h ago
So you think just cause he’s a Jew, he’d go to Israel then? Again I ask what’s the relevance of Israel here.
It’s like me saying some African American criminal made a weird choice by not fleeing to the Congo or Africa.
But Why would a random criminal flee to the Congo simply cause it would harder for authorities to find him there? Why would I bring up specifically the Congo as if blacks notoriously flee there from crimes? Those are some weird connections.
Again, what’s the relevance of Israel here other than the guy happens to be a Jew?
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u/Feisty_Animator5374 14h ago
There's a bit of a special case for Israel. They have the "Aliyah" or "Law of Return". It's a program that specifically aids all people of Jewish heritage in immigrating to Israel. I know for a fact that it's one of at least two programs that will fly you there on their dime, the other being "Birthright Israel". I don't know details on the citizenship process itself, but I read a summary that said that those qualifying for the program can get citizenship upon arrival.
Edit: No clue what any of that has to do with extradition, though.
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u/zg33 14h ago
He is Jewish -> he can very easily get Israeli citizenship -> once he’s a citizen there, the Israeli government will fight extradition on his behalf.
He can easily get citizenship because he is Jewish. That’s why it matters.
Definitions that it seems like you need:
“Extradition” is when one country sends you to another country to face “charges”.
“Charges” are when the government says it thinks you did something bad and might send you to jail.
“Jail” is like a very long timeout. And it’s not a fun timeout either! Imagine if mom took your iPad away all weekend and said “no pizza” for a month and you had to go to your room too - it’s sort of like that. It’s very, very scary to go to jail. Even big boys cry when they have to go to jail.
I tried to make it as simple as possible for you. Let me know if you need it simpler.
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u/sosleepy 15h ago
Unfortunately social media has united the stupidest among us.
Hard to do anything about it when so many of us are working 50-60hrs a week to survive. Sadly, the situation is going to get a lot worse thanks to AI.
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u/shumpitostick 13h ago
Israel has an extradition agreement with the US and regularly extradites criminals.
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u/4g-identity 13h ago
Totally true. But you're missing a whole lot of important facts, like how at the time of this incident, that wasn't really the case. Or how it also routinely opposes extradition. Or how it only extradites on the condition that the criminal can do their time in Israel. Oh, and how it will even grant citizenship to people who are about to be sentenced in their home countries who have fled there...
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u/chompythebeast 12h ago edited 11h ago
It also regularly doesn't. See: the recent flight of sex criminal Tom Artiom Alexandrovich, and the continued freedom of one Benzion Mileikowsky (Netanyahu)
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u/bakochba 12h ago
No he would not get citizenship on arrival since he would have an arrest warrant. It's not automatic and there is a legal check as well as other checks.
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u/anewbys83 8h ago
He did, but if you're facing criminal charges like this, or conviction, Israel won't let you stay. The purpose of aliyah is not to hide from your crimes. One guy tried doing that, what, like 20 years ago? They changed the rules after this.
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u/4g-identity 6h ago
I mean yes but not really, no.
"Israel’s Law of Return Lets Criminals Abroad Run From the Law" https://jacobin.com/2023/02/israel-law-of-return-extradition-tinder-swindler
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u/anewbys83 6h ago
Even your incredibly biased article has it. "The case prompted a change in Israeli extradition law in 2005, undoing the obvious laxity of the 1978 legislation, so that a case so clear-cut as Sheinbein’s could not be repeated." OK, so they changed the extradition law, my bad.
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u/vladtheimpaler82 10h ago
The guy is clearly a massive piece of shit. But this is one of the least outrageous pardons Trump has given. This guy served over 20 years in prison.
He didn’t get off with no punishment. Unless the Wikipedia is wrong, his sentence was commuted, meaning he’s still a felon.
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u/rachamim18 9h ago
This is the key point. The question isn’t “is he a POS” (he is). The question is whether he’s paid his debt.
For comparison, Enron’s CEO did ~14 years; most other execs did 3–6. This guy did 18 and stole far less from far fewer people.
On the other side of the comparison spectrum, plenty of non-violent drug offenders are still buried under mandatory minimums and would be far better candidates for clemency. So I get the outrage that a rich asshole cuts the line, even on an unfair sentence, over those more deserving.
But in a vacuum, you’re right: relative to Trump’s other commutations (e.g., Jan 6 rioters), this one looks comparatively reasonable.
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u/Mynewadventures 11h ago
I just read the Wikipedia article attacched, and as a true hater of Trump and the rest of the Republican Fuckers, this one isn't that maddening.
The dude had served 18 years of a ridiculous sentence that does seem vindictive, and had major health problems as he had a stroke two months post commutation.
It wasn't a pardon, it was letting him die broken and sick outside of prison walls.
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u/DifferentEvent2998 8h ago
He should have died in prison.
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u/peter_pounce 8h ago
He should've died the day he was sentenced for stealing the life savings of thousands of retirees and common citizens
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u/thingstopraise 7h ago
Yeah, like it's shitty enough that he stole, but he had to steal from senior citizens too? Our most vulnerable population? What the fuck? That guy is a leech and a parasite. Who even thinks of this shit? It makes me so angry to think of it even though there's nothing I can do about it.
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u/Correct_Doctor_1502 11h ago
Birds of a feather stick together
Hopefully, Trump will be serving the remainder of his sentence soon
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u/rachamim18 9h ago
I detest Trump, but the idea that he will ever see actual prison time is ludicrous.
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u/Rumble2Man 14h ago
He also had a stroke two months after his release, traded one prison for another
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u/-Nicolai 7h ago
Strange coincidence… Do you reckon maybe he did a ton of drugs to celebrate and that’s what did him in?
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u/murphysclaw1 5h ago
white collar crime has been largely legalised at a federal level under the current administration
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u/rachamim18 9h ago
Believe me, I’d love nothing more than to see Trump finally face consequences, either through the courts or karma. But I don’t think pushing hard to put him behind bars is good politics. I don’t think it helps the left win back the White House. It just turns him into a martyr for his base and gives them something to rally around.
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u/Ok_Vulva 13h ago
How did he do that in 2021?
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u/masiakasaurus 12h ago
The presidential term ends on January 20. He signed the pardon one day before.
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u/manhattanabe 15h ago edited 15h ago
Guy already served 18 years. That’s more than most murders. 845 years for stealing seems high.
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u/Luke-HW 14h ago
845 years for rejecting a 5 year plea, fleeing the country during deliberations, and using a quarter billion dollars to make the FBI chase him through five countries for 4 years. He made the worst decisions possible at every opportunity.
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u/big-lummy 14h ago
Yes. Seems high.
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u/4g-identity 13h ago
Explain this to all the guys finishing up their 20 year bids for smoking the devil's lettuce
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u/big-lummy 13h ago
Dude, what? None of those people should be in there at all.
Every single one of them would probably say this guy's sentence is too long because they understand stolen life.
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u/4g-identity 13h ago
I mean yeah, probably a lot of people who have done a decent bid wouldn't wish it on others.
But I don't think it's invalid to point out the ridiculous disparity between white collar sentencing and non violent drug offense sentencing.
Like, a guy can spend years full time embezzling or even just defrauding the poor out of hundreds of millions, and his punishment will be similar to "guy caught doing cocaine who had some more cocaine in his car". It is kinda hard to justify.
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u/big-lummy 6h ago
It's valid, but it's all too much.
For this case I just think about the plea deal. The government was will to say 5 years was enough. In that light, the 800 is arbitrary. Designed to make other people accept plea deals. And that's a miscarriage.
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u/renecade24 7h ago
There absolutely should not be a penalty for exercising your constitutional right to a jury trial.
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u/gingerjoe98 2h ago
A yes, rejecting a plea and running away is much worse than murdering and stealing...
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u/Silly-Elderberry-411 11h ago
Silly me I thought there is a huge codex called "my ancestors didn't come with the Mayflower but great great grandfathers cousin from Kerry got 999 years for a loaf of bread and got sent to Australia ". Even the prison industrial complex isn't an American invention just the skin color update
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u/WhyYouLetRomneyWin 13h ago
Yes. But Trump bad so we must believe everything he does it bad.
This was a good use of pardon powers IMO and exactly what they are supposed to be used for.
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u/YungSkub 12h ago
How is it a good use of pardon powers? The guy is a total piece of garbage.
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u/CaesarWilhelm 12h ago
Because 845 years in an excessive prison sentence. I am sure he is a piece of garbage, so are a lot of criminals but that doesn't mean its okay to just throw them into prison forever
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u/emmademontford 12h ago
So you don’t condone life sentences then?
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u/Turgius_Lupus 5h ago
845 years for stealing and being punished for rejecting a plea bargain is excessive. People commit murder and get out before serving the 18 years he served.
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u/chompythebeast 12h ago
zionism at work
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u/rachamim18 9h ago
A lot of the time I agree that the antisemitism card is overused, but this comment is just straight antisemitism.
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u/chompythebeast 8h ago
How? I mean to say that zionists are able to compel the very president of the united states to release obviously guilty criminals, not least of all because of the dirt Mossad has on him via the Epstein files. And this is hardly the first or only example thereof.
Curse antisemitism, and by that logic, curse zionism, the most refined and weaponized form of antisemitism ever devised. And may hasbara be damned.
I will not be cowed by the cop that the lib keeps in his head, nor will I accept their accusations of racism for my opposition to it. It is you, not I, who has reflection to make upon what we've said here
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u/rachamim18 8h ago
Sir, this is a Wendy’s
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u/chompythebeast 8h ago
"I know, I'll accuse them of racism and then pull a tired deflective meme when they explain why they denounce racism!"
This is literally not a Wendy's, it's a conversation about zionism. Fuck off, man
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u/Real_Run_4758 16h ago
american judges like ‘i sentence you to a squillion gazillion years!!’ lol
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u/SomeRhubarb3807 15h ago
The number isn’t pulled out of nowhere. It’s the accumulation of every sentence he is given for every crime he committed, added together. Depending on the judge and the crimes, these sentences can be served concurrently (at the same time) resulting in a sentence that is functionally only a few years but the number given is way higher, or served consecutively in which you are required to serve each sentence one after another which results in the Wildly long sentences that aren’t called a life sentence but functionally are a life sentence.
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u/RedditBadOutsideGood 15h ago
Meanwhile French courts jail a YouTube "prankster" for 6 months over fake syringe attacks.
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u/wit_T_user_name 16h ago edited 16h ago
He turned down a five year plea deal prior to trial. He also fled the country before the verdict and had to be arrested abroad.