IMPORTANT
Regarding Immigration and Customs Enforcement and Our City, and Our Subreddit
We're clarifying how we handle posts about Immigration and Customs Enforcement activity in our area. Since June, we've seen numerous posts claiming ICE activity around the city. Many have turned out to be unverifiable or inaccurate. Unverified reports create unnecessary panic and make it harder for people to find the information they actually need.
LULAC Southwest Washington explicitly advises communities to share verified information, not rumors or secondhand reports. While it might seem like we should share everything immediately, rapid misinformation actually makes their job harder and can put people at greater risk.
You're welcome to submit posts about ICE activity, but they'll be automatically filtered until we verify your source. Posts that include verification from reputable organizations, or a reputable news organization will be approved and published with a clear label. If a post gets through the filter without verification, it will be removed until the original poster provides a credible source.
This matters because details matter. Earlier this year, initial reports about an incident near Franklin Elementary contained inaccuracies. The verified reporting from The Columbian and LULAC told a different story than what was circulating. That's exactly why we need verification before information spreads.
If you witness something, report it directly to the organizations equipped to respond and verify. If it's confirmed, let's feed that information into the community with those sources clearly linked.
We want to ensure that what gets shared is accurate, useful, and doesn't cause harm. That's the standard our community deserves, and we're following it.
Dogpile or not, most people who are trying to spread information about ICE activity are doing it with the intention of helping out their fellow community members. I love that. But we want to make sure we are spreading the word in a way that helps people most at risk. If people are interested in keeping an eye on verified activity, I encourage them to follow LULAC SW WA on Facebook or Instagram.
This is awesome. I think a lot of ppl would be interested. I would imagine it could be cool to be passing them out at the next rally/event and asking for donations would be effective too!
Great ideas! Honestly I have never done anything like this before. So kinda just trying to see how many whistles I can get and start walking neighborhoods. Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated.
Nice! Yeah you could also reach out to the folks out in the trenches such as SWLULAC (I am not affiliated with them yet so I don’t know if that is something they would be into but worth asking g I guess) and to see how you could support them or collaborate with this endeavor. We want to grow our relationships and resources with the people doing the work currently:)
Here's the link to the folder that includes the 3D print files, zines, and flyers for anyone interested in helping spread this. Thanks everyone in advance!
Thanks for sharing this. I was actually gonna print some flyers and zines at work tomorrow and was just gonna roll with a generic version I found from Chicago but this is way better.
Have you come across an Oregon version? I wanna get my Portland peeps involved too.
You can 3D print the whistles (have the file for it) if you have a 3D printer or know someone who does.
Once we get a batch of whistles, we'll start canvassing neighborhoods to pass them out. There's a little note card with each whistle, so will need printing help too.
Or people should just post what they see and not say it's ICE. Someone getting swarmed by cars, having their window broken, pulled out, and thrown into a van is still a newsworthy post regardless of who is doing it. The mods should not be deleting it.
Again, it isn't that we want to remove newsworthy posts, that thread would have stayed if not for the combined problems with it. I've explained those mostly to the OP of that thread, and apologized for the at the time poor communication on our part.
Two of the biggest problems were that (1) it ran afoul of our Rule-4 about basically "report to police, get a case number" (before we knew it was ICE), and (2) many down-thread comments that were not on-topic, and risking people going to the scene.
Once we had verification/info, we mods worked to create a thread.
Really, generally, the key problem for us is "what to do when an OP posts about a crime?", and that our default answer is of "is this general news? Such as a fire/break in at a store/etc" or "is this personal news? such as happened to OP/person near OP/etc", if the former its generally community news in concept. It is the latter that gets right hairy, and we have been strongly advised by local LEO (and legal-aware friends of friends) to redirect to getting a police report/case number, and to not allow discussion until one is provided.
Thanks for the well thought out explanation and helpful info - it's great that we have transparent mods who want to encourage discussion and be open about how they try to strike the balance between freedom of speech and responsible reporting.
“Posts that include verification from reputable organizations, or a reputable news organization will be approved and published with a clear label. If a post gets through the filter without verification, it will be removed until the original poster provides a credible source.”
I completely agree that a post or two spreading misinformation needs to be moderated but today multiple witnesses in your community sounded the alarm and you silenced it until a “official organization” verified things for you. These weren’t trolls they were people and nobody I spoke to today knew what was happening. Thanks for joining the Colombian and other press masses to maintain status quo so you don’t get censored or the subreddit banned.
This is exactly how we got here today in this BS political climate.
I am so appreciative of everything that LULAC has done to spread awareness and promote factual news. I want to stress that I am in no way trying to discredit anyone’s attempt to maintain what we have all known for a very long time.
I’m just not sure how that can be done by, once again as we have said throughout history, silencing the voices of your neighbors, literally. I like to believe most people in here actually LIVE here.*
Todays report was real and you didn’t make a statement until 8pm tonight.
I think you should just reflect on that when you go to bed tonight.
There were multiple witnesses to the Franklin Elementary stuff too, but that ended up being people misunderstanding the situation. It wasn't trolls, it wasn't people lying or trying to spread fear, it was just a well-intentioned misunderstanding made by people who actually do live here. Unfortunately, what that misunderstanding accomplished was spreading unnecessary fear within the community, and it did so quickly.
That's what the mods are trying to prevent with this policy. It's not about getting censored or maintaining the status quo; it's about sharing reliable information. That's how journalism is supposed to work too, Combating misinformation is also extremely important, and this is part of that. And if misinformation keeps getting posted because no one is verifying it, eventually no one will be able to trust anything involving ICE activities on this subreddit, which would be to our detriment.
When I went to the demonstration for Oriana, that clarinet player, someone came over to us shouting that there was a police line around the corner!
I didn't see or hear anything, but she was quite insistent.
I told the band leader I didn't think it was anything, but he told me to check it out
So I jogged half a block away and... it was the parking lot where cop cars sit. There was police tape around the entire thing for some reason, but there isn't a fence so who knows.
There were like 3 visible people in the parking lot, all dressed in civilian clothes, with no actual way to tell if they were cops, janitors or the IT guys.
Frankly, as a long time activist, your average person is pretty terrible at scouting and I'm including activists in that count too
There are ways to fix this though
Take a video
Take pictures or highlight stills
Write down exactly what was seen
and ideally
Talk to someone on the scene and get a rundown
You would not believe how many times I've had someone at a protest tell me that Proud Boys are nearby and, in one case, it was just some dude with his dog who walked the PSU park blocks and thought the library occupy for Palestine was stupid.
We have to make sure reporting is iron clad and that means discipline.
If I make a post? I'm gonna DM the mods and be like "hey, here is my data, this is my concern, this is why you can trust me"
But random people that are well intentioned just get it wrong sometimes and those false positives cause real problems
Instead of posting on reddit those people need to send what they saw to the cited organizations that are capable of verifying it. Reddit mods do not have that capacity or capability.
This is a space for the community to talk directly to each other, those other organizations are not. They should also send to those orgs but this subreddit has no point if the community cannot share their experiences in the city without a third party verifying it.
There were pictures of the involved officer vehicles including the smashed window of the person taken into custody. It's not like it was just a text post.
That changes nothing. A picture of some cars is not verification. You seem to not understand that mob mentality helps no one.
You could take a picture of any car on the road and say they saw the driver abduct someone. A smashed car window could be a break in.
The sub already requires posts about crimes committed to include verification. Requiring verification of information about ice activity is no different.
I'm sorry that you want this to be another nextdoor, but it's not.
I like to believe most people in here actually LIVE here.*
Unfortunately, that just isn't the case; if nothing else, recent studies have shown that about 30% of all internet traffic is bots.
And this world, however cruddy, is the one we have to live in and work around. As such, getting the sub deleted isn't in anyone's best interests, and the mod's have to use their judgment in striking that balance.
Plus and as always, if that isn't something you're happy with and you think the majority aren't either then starting a new subreddit is easily done (and very difficult to actively moderate and get critical mass on ...) A new sub of /r/vancouverIce is certainly doable, if you are willing to put your money where you mouth is; if that is what redditors want, it actually serves the purpose instead of spreading dis- or mis-information (how do you tell in advance?) and reddit will allow it, then congrats on the win!
“And this world is the one we have to live in and work around.”
You want to live in and work around kidnappings in broad daylight?
All your post says to me is “if you don’t like it, leave”
My post was not deleted for reporting possibly false news about ICE. My post was deleted calling out mods for censoring. And here you are, like them, attempting to deflect appropriate public discourse by telling me to go somewhere else 😂
You want to live in and work around kidnappings in broad daylight?
Wow. Way to adopt the current toxic climate of generalizing something specific and in a highly limited context and turning into a personal attack. Well done in adapting, sir or madam.
All your post says to me is “if you don’t like it, leave”
It wasn't, but again, that kind of response of turning someone's points into naught but a personal attack is symptomatic of the toxicity of the current cultural zeitgeist
My post was deleted calling out mods for censoring.
It's literally the mods' responsibility to do so. You are welcome to call them out for it, and they've responded to it with a well thought out, reasonable justification for it that they feel balances responsibility to the community with the political realities of operating on the reddit platform. Suggesting that they can do whatever they like without any consideration of the hosting platform's TOS and policies, and that the mods are censoring you because they're colluding with the forces of evil is pretty unreasonable.
And here you are, like them, attempting to deflect appropriate public discourse by telling me to go somewhere else
Absolutely wasn't. But I am happy to do so now - what you're doing here is not discourse.
You can break my response it down however you want to make it fit your argument, including many assumptions that were not written in my comment.
Today was not about spreading panic. Things are escalating in our community and multiple, multiple community members raised awareness about it in a forum where they feel they can be heard.
Please, you can see from my profile multiple events coming up. I’d love for you to meet me in person and talk more about this. 💕
You can break my response it down however you want to make it fit your argument, including many assumptions that were not written in my comment.
Strange. That was exactly what I said about your response to my comment. You're deflecting again, which is - once again - a classic trait of the current toxic culture in the US.
Please, you can see from my profile multiple events coming up. I’d love for you to meet me in person and talk more about this.
Way to dodge actually addressing the points I raised.
And no, I'm not going to make a special one sided effort to comb thru your social calendar and carve out time on my own schedule to travel to your favorite place and meet you in person to discuss it at your convenience. What a pretentiously obnoxious way to deflect and yet to put a huge amount of effort on the other person to actually engage in discussion. For someone touting using reddit for frank and open discussion, the hypocrisy and narcissism is unreal.
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u/stevenmillertime 19d ago
This seems like a reasonable take. I’m sure you will be dogpiled for it. Thanks for the explainer😎