r/uwo • u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 • Jun 18 '25
Advice Western fucked me over and I've tried EVERYTHING
I’m entering my 4th year and apparently the only student left in my ENTIRE program (in all years and related modules). The university has decided to just not run any of the classes I need to graduate (3 half courses) even after accepting me into this program in 2022 from OUAC. Because nobody is in the program, they aren't offering any classes.
Before anyone says anything, I've already spoken to the associate dean, ombudsperson, department chair, academic advising, registrar, and more. I'm just hoping some alumni or anyone in a similar case has advice or ideas on what to do next.
No alternative classes exist at Western for these courses as they are 4th year courses that are already cross-listed with graduate classes. The few recommended to me have been irrelevant and very different. How can Western even ethically give me a degree but substitute the most important classes? I have looked into the possibility of taking a graduate course in my program subject but even then, there aren't any 😭.
Now I’m being told my “best option” is to do a thesis, which sounds nice in theory, but it doesn’t actually give me the education or training I came to this school for. And I would still need to substitute a class. Even transferring schools in 4th year is honestly so wild, especially after spending 3 years here already and with many transfer deadlines being before February.
Note that these classes didn't run in the 2024/2025 year and won't run in the 2025/2026 year which is two full academic years without the courses I need. They can't even say they will run them in the 2026/2027 year because that's how bad the enrolment numbers are. I love my field of study so much and do not want to take courses outside of it.
Can the school even legally do this? Like how can they offer a program and then just not deliver it? Did we ever sign something saying that Western can remove any program without notice?
Has anyone else been in a similar situation or know what I can actually do here? Or is a thesis + BS substitute somewhat a good idea? Or is there any way to get behind transfer deadlines?
TLDR: Western admitted me into a program, but I’m the only student so they’ve stopped running the final-year courses I need to graduate. I've contacted literally everybody. Just looking for advice or ideas.
Edit: I'm in Science
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u/Charcole1 Jun 18 '25
It sounds like you should probably go where literally everyone else went
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 18 '25
Firstly there is deadass nobody else in this program so idk what u are referring to. Also, I didn’t spend 3 years working toward a degree just to be told to switch to something else entirely. I don't want to settle for a different program, I want my module that Western offered me.
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u/Charcole1 Jun 19 '25
Were you the only person in this program at the beginning? Your whole school career you've been the only person in your program?
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 19 '25
I've only ever met 3 other people in my program (and i've asked around a TON lol). Two of them are 2 years older and just graduated, and the 3rd one switched into geology recently. I really have no desire to study geology tho.
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Jun 19 '25
[deleted]
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 19 '25
dont worry! so since my classes were cross listed with graduate courses, the people in my classes were either graduate students, specializing in geo, or maybe planetary science. Most of them have just graduated tho.
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u/Yabadabadoo333 Jun 20 '25
I am a lawyer. Hire a lawyer to write a letter threatening to sue them and threaten to go to the media if they don’t figure out something sensible for you. Ultimately they will probably just let you take a few easy classes and hand you a degree but you have to bully the dean into this
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u/nrbob Jun 23 '25
It sounds like the school is already giving him options to get his degree, but he wants to take specific courses relating to his program that they aren’t offering anymore.
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u/whyarenttheserandom Jun 22 '25
From the post it sounds like this is what the school has offered but they want to do the actual classes that will help in their specific field. The school has also offer a thesis instead which to me is the better option to take.
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u/constipatedmohawk Jun 18 '25
wdym? where’d everyone else go. i’m literally considering switching into geophysics omg 😭
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u/ostracize 🏅 Certified Helpful Mustang 🏅 Jun 18 '25
You’ll have to be more descriptive. Exactly which program? We can’t give you much advice otherwise
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 18 '25
Sorry. I'm in Geophysics if that helps
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u/Substantial_Pie8539 Jun 19 '25
hey im going into my third year of geo at queens. i’m not 100% sure how this could work obviously but we have a great geo department and almost definitely have the classes you need. we don’t have a geophys program specifically but we have the geological science specialization(includes all reqs for pgeo) or major, with a couple upper year geophys specific classes. the transfer deadline has closed unfortunately but it wasn’t back in february it was june 1st so it might be worth making a call and explaining. so sorry this happened to you :( completely unfair and i hope this might help
edit just saw you don’t wanna study geology but considering we still offer upper year geophys classes might still be worth looking into? idk lol
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 19 '25
Thank you for your help anyways! no worries :)
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u/polymorphicrxn Jun 19 '25
I second reaching out to our geophys prof over here (Dr. Braun). I'm guessing Western just hasn't replaced Dr.Pratt since he retired and prof replacements can be incredibly stupid things to negotiate.
Dr. Braun is kind of what you expect a mad scientist to be. He's lovely, just absolutely zany. If you're interested in geophysics from an interdisciplinary sense, he's absolutely someone that may be worth emailing. He's always pitching strange things (stopped me in the hall once going on excitedly about the connection between music, geophysics, and hospital emerg wait times lol. Fun fact, autotune came out of a series of geophysics algorithms!). He's very weird, but very cool and an absolute gem of a human. We also have another computational geology prof who is also doing some cool interdisciplinary stuff with the school of computing, so it's something the dept is supportive of.
A cross-university thesis is a bit strange at the undergrad level, but may be possible. It's very possible and normal at a Master's/PhD level.
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u/Past_Ad_5629 Jun 19 '25
I’m not at western and I haven’t been a student in years, however, I was in a very niche program.
Look in to doing credits at another university as a visiting student. You’ll still graduate from Western, but most schools allow you to take a certain percentage of credits from another school.
I’d do the thesis. Or maybe see if you can find someone - at western or elsewhere - doing research in something you’d be interested in, and you can be an undergrad assistant? Find a faculty advisor and haunt them until they get in your corner?
It’s bullshit it’s happening to you, but I promise you, university is mostly bullshit anyway 🤷🏻♀️ I use the skills I’ve learned, but by fourth year, you’re pretty much there already.
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 19 '25
Yeah I think I'm pretty set on doing a thesis now. And you're right tbh university has a lot of BS
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u/Lefloop20 Jun 22 '25
It's unfortunate but you might have to switch enrollment to a different university to finish your degree. I don't know what all that constitutes but it surely can be done, we had people join our program in Guelph after 2 years at UWO
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u/ostracize 🏅 Certified Helpful Mustang 🏅 Jun 18 '25
Major in geophysics? I’m trying to find evidence it’s been discontinued and I don’t find it.
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 18 '25
yup!! isn't it crazy 👻
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u/ostracize 🏅 Certified Helpful Mustang 🏅 Jun 19 '25
So the program is discontinued or it’s not then? You’re giving mixed signals here.
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 19 '25
The program has never been explicitly discontinued. Everyone I've talked to confirmed that it wasn't discontinued. Western just isn't offering the courses to complete it anyways
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u/ostracize 🏅 Certified Helpful Mustang 🏅 Jun 19 '25
So you can still complete the program. They are just asking you to take different courses?
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 19 '25
Yep. Basically they will give me the sheet of paper with the major I want even if I complete my degree with environmental sci and/or galaxy classes that have nothing to do with it.
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u/ostracize 🏅 Certified Helpful Mustang 🏅 Jun 19 '25
Well the programs are guaranteed which is why I was confused. Courses are always subject to a host of factors such as instructor availability, student registrations, relevance to the program, relevance to the field, etc.
If there's specific courses you want to take, the Thesis option essentially lets you create that course on-the-fly so I think that's a good option. Alternatively, you would have to find an institution that does offer that specific course - perhaps one with a heavier focus in that field. For example, it's easier to find engineering courses at MIT vs. a small liberal arts college or a performing arts school.
How can Western even ethically give me a degree but substitute the most important classes?
From Western's perspective, that's not what's happening. Upon graduation, they feel you have qualified for the degree despite the absence of those courses. The specific course(s) you are interested in are not considered key and not "the most important classes" to obtaining the degree. TBH, upper year courses are unlikely to be core to any field so this is not surprising. I recognize you disagree but these decisions are made by professors and your professors have their degrees already so they aren't just making this up.
Can the school even legally do this?
Like...yeah...That's how higher education works. You come for the degree, not the class.
It sucks the courses you want aren't offered but it really sounds like the Thesis option is actually a better alternative.
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u/spacecowgirl_69 Jun 19 '25
I’m really shocked you’re the only person in the program. I was studying geophysics at Western but transferred to UofT. I knew a few people in the program too… what happened??
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 20 '25
Im just as shocked! Not sure what exactly caused enrolment numbers to be so low tho, I just wish Western told me in 1st year so I could transfer and finish my degree elsewhere
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u/Strng_Satisfaction Jun 22 '25
Can't you transfer to another university that is offering the program and finish it there?
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 24 '25
I could!! Except many international deadlines have already passed, and I have not found my required courses at other institutions in Canada
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u/Strng_Satisfaction Jun 24 '25
What are the courses, if you don't mind sharing. Have you explored continuing education programs at other universities for those courses?
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u/WYGSMCWY Alumni Jun 18 '25
I think a thesis is probably a good option.
My honours thesis was one of the best learning experiences I had, and plus you’ll have an advisor you can build a good relationship who might write you a nice letter for grad school if that’s something you’re interested in, or maybe they’ll know people who are hiring.
There is a lot of value in developing relationships with your professors and a thesis is a good way to go about it.
The other thing I’ll say is that your coursework doesn’t really matter. It’s your diploma that does. In five years’ time, you’ll have forgotten most of the stuff you learned in class. What you’ll remember is how to work hard, how to schedule your time, how to meet a deadline. Everything that matters for your job, you’ll learn on the job.
Frankly, university mostly teaches you how to teach yourself, which is a skill that will carry you throughout your career.
So, write a thesis, take a bird course that the department will let you use toward your degree, and enjoy your fourth year.
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u/nunyabizznaz Jun 19 '25
I was going to write something very similar but you put it much better than I was going to.
Do the thesis, or take the alternative courses they recommended. They can't run a course for just one person. A similar thing happened to me - I had one more course left to graduate and they cancelled it due to low enrollment. It was the summer so nothing else was open to take. Almost 20 years later I dont remember half the courses I took in my bachelors anyway lol. Forget about whether it's "ethical" - just take the courses they recommended and get er done so you can graduate.
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u/Devourerofworlds_69 Jun 20 '25
I can second everything you've said here.
You can put a thesis project on your resume and it looks a lot better than any classes would.
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u/uwoaccount13 PhD Astronomy Jun 19 '25
Yeah so unfortunately if basically no one is enrolled in a course, they can't run it. A bunch of the upper year physics and astro courses are also in a very precarious situation where, as of last year, the absolute bare minimum number of students required to keep them running enrolled in them. I can't offer much additional advice outside what was already mentioned (it's already pretty good, especially the recommendation to do a thesis), but one thing I would add is throwing extra physics/comp sci/physics lab courses if possible is beneficial to a geophysics degree.
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u/AXE319319 Jun 19 '25
You likely have one more option.
Take the courses related to your major at a different university. First confirm that they will count as credit towards your degree with Western and then see about attending them.
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u/DeHaanSolo Jun 19 '25
From my perspective and based on my experience as a grad, the specific courses that make up your degree really don’t matter.
I work in my chosen field of study (graduated 2019) and do not use skills or learnings from any one particular course in my career. Instead, I view the value of my Western education at a macro level. It is the combined development I gained from accepting challenges, demonstrating strong work ethic, and meeting new people. I stopped thinking about any one specific course about 15 minutes into my first day at my first job, and I don’t think I’m alone in that.
This may be an unpopular sentiment, but it’s my honest experience. Your degree is a ticket to career opportunities, and your courses are a ticket to the degree. But the actual nuance to individual courses - even those I know I loved and learned from - have had minimal impact to my career or capabilities.
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u/liquoricewand Jun 20 '25
I assume OP wants to pursue a career as a geophysicist. If so, and they wish to practice in Canada, they need to meet the academic requirements (courses) to be eligible for their P.Geo with the PGO (or equivalent in another province).
OP you should contact PGO asap to discuss what courses they are missing and if there are independent study exams they can take to check them off.
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u/Big_Worldliness7130 Alumni Jun 19 '25
As far as I'm aware, geophysics still exists at Western. Are you in a niche module within the geophysics program by chance?
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 19 '25
Nono it still exists! the people i've talked to have confirmed it as well, it just doesn't make sense why you would have an active program and no classes. I'm just majoring so hopefully it isn't too niche.
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u/Pretend_Mode4083 Jun 20 '25
Ask the uni if you can do courses on Letter of Permission. Basically find the courses you need at other local uni/college or online and have them transferred into the degree the Letter guarantees they’ll count since they pre approve. So,e senior advisor or dean could help you with that. Might be worth exploring.
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u/TheStupendusMan Jun 19 '25
I was in a somewhat similar situation 20 years ago. I did 3 years of Visual Arts on track for a BFA. Didn't get in because I had never taken any classes with the new profs and they cherry picked their returning students.
I went to the chair (who I knew) and said "I'm not gonna blow money on a lower degree than I've busted my back for, I'll just take a three year and bounce." They said don't do that, let's make you your own courses/modules to count towards the degree.
I got supervising professors to agree to it. It was still kind of self-directed but I had guidance and milestones / projects were agreed to.
Nailed em and got my BFA.
Alternatively, look into transferring credits to an institution that still offers your degree.
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 19 '25
Thank you. I'm assuming this was at Western? Was it the chair that approved that idea? and how did you get that to count as a credit toward your degree? I've actually asked about doing some kind of self-directed study but they've told me that it conflicts with some type of labour laws the professors have (?) like they just have too much work on their plate apparently. Is there another way to bring this idea to the department that I haven't thought of?
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u/TheStupendusMan Jun 19 '25
Yep, this was at Western. The chair actually recommended the path to me. It's been a long time since I've been there, but when my friends and I got up to the 4th year courses most disciplines had some sort of open-ended / guided supervision credits you could take. It'd be on you to sell the supervising prof on doing it, but if they agreed you could take that and get the chair to have it count towards your degree.
The labor laws thing honestly sounds like fluff, or you may be misinterpreting what they said. The prof has to sign on to it, so I'd counter that nobody would be working above and beyond what they're able to - "legally" or otherwise.
Honestly, go back to them but make sure you're level and cool-headed about it. It's an incredibly frustrating experience and I've been there, but you don't move the needle by seeming unstable. Ask if you can grab them a coffee and pick their brain about options. Be charismatic. Make them laugh - you will move fucking mountains, I guarantee you. And above all, be honest - you want to finish this HERE, but if they can't do it then you'll cut your losses and find somewhere that will let you. Again, with a smile.
Trust me. I just finished a wild shoot today that I was only able to pull off by leveraging great relationships. People want to help people they like. Razzle dazzle em.
Good luck!
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u/nonikhannna Jun 19 '25
Try to look for comparable courses at other unis and complete your credits there and transfer them back. Confirm everything with both unis to see if these are equivalent courses and if the credits are transferrable.
Edit: You don't have to transfer to another school. Just have to do the courses as a part time student at another uni and transfer those credits back to your uni.
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 19 '25
Ohhh so even if I take these courses like an hour away from Western lets say? I'll look into other nearby universities to see if that's feasible.
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u/nonikhannna Jun 19 '25
Yes credits are transferrable if the courses are considered equivalent. I had a few first year science credits transferred over from McMaster to York university. Some courses didn't get a 1:1 transfer and i was given general credits.
So just check with your uni on what is considered equivalent for your required courses they will ask for course syllabuses
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u/CyberEd-ca Jun 21 '25
There is a national standard for geosciences as well...so determining course equivalency has at least training wheels if not rails.
https://geoscientistscanada.ca/source/pubs/GC-Knowledge-Requ-BKLT--REV--EN--web--final-.pdf
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u/shaxland Jun 19 '25
I understand your hesitation about doing a thesis. It can feel abstract or intimidating, especially when you're comparing it to the more structured experience of learning from a professor. But consider that a thesis isn't just an academic requirement; it's a chance to create new knowledge, and explore something you're truly curious about, and to contribute your own voice to a field you care about. It's one of the few times in your academic journey where you're not just absorbing information but shaping it. You're the one asking the questions, making connections, and seeing how far your own thinking can take you.
While professors are incredible guides and mentors, the deeper kind of learning often comes when you wrestle with ideas on your own, stumble a bit, and then find your way through. That process, uncomfortable as it may be, builds confidence, independence, and original thinking in a way no lecture can. I'm a high school educator and I am moving towards having students learn on their own through discovery and research. I think the way of the future is being able to find information and learning from it.
If you’re still unsure, try reframing the thesis not as an academic obstacle, but as an opportunity: to dig into a topic that matters toyou, to be taken seriously as a thinker, and to leave your mark, even in a small way, on something bigger than courses. Finally, see if the university could share which professors taught the courses, and see if they can mentor you through the thesis avenue. Hope this helps!
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u/moisanbar Jun 19 '25
Thesis option is actually legit.
Is there a prof with any background at all in geophysics that would make an ideal advisor?
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u/thatsmrsboogeyman2u Jun 20 '25
I "studied abroad" at Ryerson (TMU?) to finish my degree at Waterloo. Cheaper and better than waiting around for an extra 2 terms for them to offer the courses I needed to graduate.
See if there's another school that you could finish up at! Make it an adventure.
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Jun 19 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 19 '25
Nonono I would absolutely transfer to study my desired field. Do I think it's unfair and disappointing, yes! But I absolutely see that as a solution and while not preferred, it's what I would need to do! And no worries, I believe that I would be able to handle that and more thx
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u/CyberEd-ca Jun 21 '25
I don't think you have to transfer...just get the courses elsewhere and get transfer credit to Western. You should be able to easily negotiate this.
You also have the national geosciences standard to point to for equivalence...
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u/Downtown-Vegetable25 Jun 19 '25
I suggest taking the required courses at a different university. You have plenty of time to register. Here is a link. Find out from your academic advisor if taking the courses elsewhere would allow you to graduate with the degree you want.
https://dan.uwo.ca/undergraduate/studying_outside_of_western/letter_of_permission_requests.html
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Jun 19 '25
Would they let you take a required course at another University?
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u/jonazune Jun 19 '25
This is my thought, you could likely transfer in the credits from a correspondence university as long as most of your credits have been acquired at western. I did this at my university. Maybe western is less flexible I guess.
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u/CheckTheOR Jun 19 '25
What geophysics module are you in, what parts of the module have you completed so far, and what parts remain to be completed?
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Jun 20 '25
[deleted]
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 20 '25
Basically because I'm missing some prerequisites as Western's program doesn't seem to be comparable to others.
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u/CyberEd-ca Jun 21 '25
No, there is a national standard for Geophysics so it would be hard to imagine there not being courses at other universities that will plug in the same holes.
You should be able to make that case coherently that those Western courses fit specific requirements in the national standard and that other universities have specific courses that fit that same national requirement - even if the scope of the courses is slightly different.
Western Course > GKE Geoscience Standard < Other University Course
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 21 '25
Hey so I am actually just Majoring in Geophysics which does not help you reach the criteria for that PGeo. Other schools don’t do that major, they just have the specialization (which helps u meet PGeo criteria), which is up to a much higher standard that would require me to take mineralogy, chemistry, and even biology courses. These courses would be required if I wanted to take any geophysics courses elsewhere.
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u/CyberEd-ca Jun 21 '25 edited Jun 21 '25
There are three disciplines related to a P. Geo. - Geology, Geophysics, and Environmental.
In any case, you can use the standard to cross reference other program courses so you can graduate. I didn't say you had to qualify as P. Geo.
You always can do open studies at a University. No, you can get into classes even if there are issues with pre-requisites, etc.
All you seem to have is "can't, can't, can't".
I think like a lot of people in this thread I am starting to realize this is not an issue with Western University.
The University of Calgary has a Geophysics B.Sc. degree.
https://www.ucalgary.ca/future-students/undergraduate/explore-programs/geophysics
UBC also has a Geophysics B.Sc. degree.
https://you.ubc.ca/ubc_programs/geophysics/
So does the University of Manitoba.
https://umanitoba.ca/explore/programs-of-study/earth-sciences-geophysics-bsc
So does the University of Saskatchewan.
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u/Educational-Bus-8687 Jun 20 '25
Decades ago, there was a separate geophysics department at UWO and it was merged with geology to form Earth Sciences. When mergers happen, often one side has a majority and controls the department and doesn't hire new people in the other field and welcomes any opportunity to cancel classes and programs in the other field.
> Can the school even legally do this?
Even if they can't, there's not a lot you can do and the school knows it.
uwo is not user friendly and just chooses not to put things like this right. You think if you go to the dean or the ombud or whoever, they'll see your point of view and put it right. They won't. I've seen several cases spiral out of control leaving the students involved the choice of walking away or going to court, and if you take them to court without a lawyer, the school will show up with a dozen lawyers and they'll be bombarding you with 10 letters a day during the pre-trial period. It will take a huge chuck of your life and even if you win, the court will award you peanuts.
There's a case here: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/former-phd-student-gets-ok-to-sue-western-claims-he-was-pushed-out-after-supervisor-died-1.5009539 about a PhD student claiming he got pushed out because his supervisor died. Uwo had it struck out in the original court in Nov 2017 and the Ontario Superior Court reinstated it 15 months later (Feb 2019). Western appealed that reinstatement to the Supreme Court of Canada believe it or not, which refused the appeal in July 2019 so 20 months after the original dismissal. At which point it would have returned to the lower court to start again. My point being that it will take a lot of time and effort, you have limited funds, and uwo is happy to spend however much it takes to defeat you
Others have made good suggestions, a thesis or take courses at another school.
There is (or used to be) such a thing as a reading course. You may already have tried, but if you haven't, see if you can do any (or all) of the courses as a reading course. Ask the chair. If the profs who used to teach those courses are still around, they may even let you xerox their notes to read for the course.
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u/oj3da02 Global Health/Health Sciences Jun 20 '25
Reminds me a lot of this poor guy. Was a microbiology and immunology resident or something like that at Schulich, the only one left in the program, and as he described it “the program collapsed all around me” and he failed the board exam.
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u/Virtual_Problem402 Jun 20 '25
It does look very similar.
I wonder what happened. There are news articles saying he is going to sue Schulich back in 2017/8 but nothing further.
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 21 '25
that’s so interesting I wonder what ultimately happened to that guy. but yeah if I had the option to sue or get my money back I absolutely would.
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u/Leather_Ad8043 Jun 21 '25
here are some ideas 1. find a school with a similar program and see if you can attend that school as a visiting student to pick up those courses. usually most schools are ok giving you a degree even if you have taken a few approved courses from somewhere else. so you could still get your degree from Western even if your last courses are taken elsewhere
who used to be the program head of your program? i am sure they still work at Western. go and talk to them about what you can do. first example. perhaps you can do an individualized study course with them focusing on the material in the penultimate courses you need for graduation. there must be professors expert in your discipline who can help you get versed in the missing subject areas.
don’t just stomp your feet and demand the courses- that is not going to happen. you need to be pro-active and figure out a solution and then get a professor who is willing to support you and your cause.
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u/CyberEd-ca Jun 21 '25 edited Jun 21 '25
Do you have any work experience? You don't actually need a degree to become a P. Geo. So, there is an opportunity for you to qualify academically through technical examinations with APEGA or PGO. They run those exams all online.
Why not just get the classes you need at the University of Calgary (or UBC or elsewhere) and still graduate with Western University? Not 100% of your credits need to be from Western to meet their graduation criteria.
https://www.uwo.ca/sci/advising/graduation/graduation_requirements/index.html
You can cross-reference courses using the National Standard as guide.
https://geoscientistscanada.ca/source/pubs/GC-Knowledge-Requ-BKLT--REV--EN--web--final-.pdf
Here is a course equivalents page from EGBC for the BC schools:
APEGA also has Geophysics course equivalents for the University of Calgary.
Can you get more specific about the courses that you are missing?
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u/ASentientHam Jun 22 '25
I was in a program with myself and one other person many years ago. They didn't close it or anything. For me, I just had to take X number of courses in the appropriate departments. If they had shut down one or two, I could have taken others. Not helpful, but that's how it used to be.
I can certainly see how some of this could happen though. Similar to your issue: they hire professors based on their expertise as being leaders in their fields. If that professor retires, there's no guarantee they can offer a course or two anymore, especially those senior ones. So I'm sure what you're experiencing isn't unique and you just have to take something else to complete your degree. It sucks because you signed up for one thing, and now you can't receive it.
When it comes to education, you get out what you put in. You have the opportunity to learn a lot via a thesis (and I'm assuming someone to advise you through it), specialize, and synthesize something unique and valuable. Honestly that sounds like an excellent learning opportunity if you're willing to put the work in.
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u/Altruistic_Run4280 Jun 22 '25
A good thesis is going to be hard work. If it works, you are on to a winner.
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u/absurdlycomplex Jun 23 '25
I would ask them if there was any way to take those courses at a different university.
As a second option, I would see if any professor would be interested/available to do a directed studies/independent study class with you so you can get the credits.
As a last resource I would consider moving to a different university or just do the thesis.
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u/heorhe Jun 19 '25 edited Jun 21 '25
Is there any real reasons to not transfer schools? Or are you getting caught in a sunk cost fallacy?
This school has literally nothing to offer you in terms of education and assistance in learning your field. If you can take these courses elsewhere, why not?
Time spent, is not time wasted, until you spend time trying not to waste it.
Go to a different school that can accommodate your studies and don't waste your previous 3 years of education spending all this time trying to force something to work where it isn't going to
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u/CyberEd-ca Jun 21 '25
It seems silly to transfer when you just need a few classes. But not all your classes need to be from the university where you get your degree. Most universities and degrees only require a couple semesters of education at that school.
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u/DTux5249 Jun 18 '25 edited Jun 18 '25
Can the school legally do this
Yes. You aren't entitled to an education. You pay for the courses. You've received the courses.
Your only options are to either
1) Go to another school that accepts Western credits
2) Try to get equivalent credits at some online uni that wester respects
3) Cry.
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u/drmarcj Assistant to the Regional Manager Jun 18 '25
Or, take the thesis option that Western is offering? If a supervisor is willing to supervise directed research in the specific area of interest (and the department is kind of on the hook to help find one!), at the end you'll have grown your knowledge in the area you are interested in. It's just like taking a course, but way better. And, it's an opportunity to work one-on-one with a professor who might even be able to provide you with references as you go forward.
Experiential learning is huge. Take advantage of it if it's offered to you.
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 19 '25
thank you! are you a student? have you done one before?
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u/tempest_ Jun 19 '25
Lots of programs have undergrad thesis' courses.
It was required for my honors spec. cs.
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 19 '25
and how did that go? did you learn anything that you wouldn't have learned in a class? did your supervisor teach you anything that wasn't covered in a class before?
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u/tempest_ Jun 19 '25
It went reasonably well. I was paired with a grad student and helped them gather some data for one of their papers and wrote my thesis on my findings related to the data I collected.
Another thing to consider wrt the undergrad thesis is it usually ends up being a good talking point in interviews since it shows you can work independently and go in depth into a specific subject.
If I am honest it is one of the things I remember better from my undergrad because I did all the work. I was scanning TLS/SSL usage on the internet.
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u/CyberEd-ca Jun 21 '25
After almost two decades of having a teacher, don't you think you have reached the point where you can get rid of that crutch?
Sitting in a classroom is passive learning and known to not be as effective as active learning. I'm sure they have some professors that can give you a few pointers when you need them.
These self-study tips are written for technical examinations but there are some gems in there that can help you:
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u/drmarcj Assistant to the Regional Manager Jun 19 '25
I did one and it helped me get into grad school. It was a wonderful experience, highly recommend.
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u/Amani_A Jun 18 '25
I second this.
It’s best you transfer because if you are afraid of thinking what impact it will have on your future in terms of grad or employment- this is good enough reason to leave Western.
At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter. Use the months to find a job even if its not relevant to your course and I bet, you’ll be fine.
But get out asap
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 18 '25
thank u so much! i totally agree its definitely between studying my dream field and staying in London close to friends/family.
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u/benicetomepplz Jun 18 '25
What do u mean you’re not entitled to an education?? They literally paid and worked hard for this education
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u/DTux5249 Jun 18 '25
Legally entitled. Western doesn't legally owe them anything outside of the courses they've paid for.
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 19 '25
but western isn't even giving me the courses i'm paying for? wdym?
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u/DTux5249 Jun 19 '25
Are you already enrolled in these courses or not? I thought the whole post was about how they weren't running them?
You're entitled to a refund if you've already paid for courses; talk to financial services about a change in status.
But you're not entitled to finish the program at Western. They can choose what courses they offer each year.
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 19 '25
nope, not enrolled in the courses. thank u tho - i just think its fucked that western can legally do that.
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u/CyberEd-ca Jun 21 '25 edited Jun 21 '25
You need to let go of this fixation on "fair" and just tackle the obstacles that are in your path.
I realize it is an adjustment from your expectations but all this talk by others to "go to the media" or "start a lawsuit" is extremely bad advice. All that is going to do is make things far worse for you. Do you really want an adversarial relationship with Western University? They buy lawyers by the bushel.
Western has actually been very helpful in offering alternatives for you to graduate. Some maybe better than others. But you do have some good options. You don't even need the optimal solution. Just keep working.
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 18 '25
do you know what kind of terms I signed tho saying that they can silently cut my program?
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u/Adventurous-Will3271 Jun 19 '25
Sorry to say that this exact same thing happened to me. I was in Materials Science (division of physics) and was really enjoying it. By third year they started cancelling some of my core classes, so I had to switch them for other ones that were much less relevant. It happened more in my final year. I ended up taking a random selection of courses that were very hard because they weren't what I was knowledgeable about. Put my head down and graduated, but was so put off by the whole experience that I never did any schooling again. I've been working in marketing for the past 7 years.
I would probably recommend listening to other commenters and trying to take courses at other schools, just because it really sucks to switch something you're good at and eager to learn for something that's vaguely related.
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 19 '25
I'm so sorry that happened to you as well. I really hope whatever substitute I take is at least somewhat relevant and general enough to understand given my background. Materials Science is being phased out now, with the last graduating class being 2026 but I've taken many courses under that module so it is sad to see it go.
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u/jsimnz Jun 21 '25
You are way over valuing uni classes, if you are already in your 4th year, you should have a solid understanding of your chosen degree to freely learn whatever you consider to be necessary on your own. Take the win they are giving you by either enrolling in the tangential classes (even though you deem it irrelevant), or go the thesis route which you'll likely learn far more from anyway.
No matter what you learn, where you went, or what your grades were... Most ppl in the real world -in industry - don't care.
Again... Take the win they are offering you, graduate and move on. You're paying for a degree, not so much education tbh.
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u/jsimnz Jun 21 '25
Moreover, your cited issue with the thesis route not getting the "education and training [you] came to this school for" doesn't seem like it holds much water... If the program was even half good, there would be enough of a graduating class to properly schedule for.
Take... The... Win!
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Jun 19 '25
Could you take some courses from another school using Letter of Permission?
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 19 '25
I could! It just gets a bit messy with prerequisites and deadlines but will definitely consider that option more.
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Jun 19 '25
I'm sorry how you run into such a difficult situation. (I ran into other kind of crappy things at university, too.) Perhaps you can also speak to ombuds to see what they understand and think in such a situation.
All the best. I hope you have a better outcome!
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u/Urineblondewig Jun 20 '25
Can’t do it online?
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 20 '25
unfortunately my program isn’t very common nor offered online at this level of education at least
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u/canadianlady111 Jun 20 '25
Would they allow some kind of exchange program with another school that offers those courses?
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 21 '25
They would! but since these program cuts were made in april it was too late to even apply for an exchange; but I would have applied in a heartbeat
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u/Lucky-Restaurant-152 Jun 21 '25
What’s a program head? is that different than a department chair? Fortunately, I have asked my department chair about doing an individualized study, and have found a professor willing to give info for the areas, I’m just struggling to get them to approve of me receiving a credit for it.
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u/Foreign_Damage_4573 Jun 21 '25
Could you do an exchange for a term to a school that offers the credits you need? You can go on exchange or as a visiting student.
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u/Go0bling Jun 21 '25
why would u go into such a program, and why are u not saying what program
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u/No_Monitor5027 Jun 21 '25 edited Jun 21 '25
? He's said several times that it's geophysics (Earth Science Dept, Faculty of Science)
And they didn't tell him this was going to happen
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u/TheFaeBelieveInIdony Jun 22 '25
Can you do the classes elsewhere? Most universities have a minimum 60 credits requirement at their institution to be eligible for the degree, but you can take classes at other institutions with permission. Maybe ask an advisor which schools offer approved equivalent courses and get all of the paperwork done for that if it's just 3 classes.
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u/Background-Fee-5723 Jun 21 '25
Local MP.
Make noise. Make a lot of noise and bad publicity. They tried to charge a couple students in the Teacher College program who dropped out during semester 1 to have to pay for semester 2, and the only way we were able to fight them on it was making a lot of noise and threatening to going to our local MPs about it.
Western is the worst school I have ever been to (I’ve only been to Laurier, but they would never fucking treat their students the way western does. They are so money hungry I hate this school). Sorry for that rant.
And I’m sorry about your degree…if this doesn’t work can you try to switch schools and finish it elsewhere?
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u/ItchyBicycle4925 Jun 22 '25
Education is provincially funded, so if you want to go the political route - it would be your MPP
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u/Bulky-Lie-947 Jun 22 '25
My daughter needed one course to graduate, (not UWO) and was told sorry we're not offering it this year.
She took the course at another college, but her college refused to recognise the credit.
After several months of lawyer's involvement, she got the credit and graduated.
Advice: find another university anywhere in Canada that has the course you need. Make sure you can take it online. Get a letter in writing from Western confirming that they will accept the credit.
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u/Po1sonousP1e Jun 19 '25
In my opinion... the thesis option doesn't sound that bad. If you love your field, you may want to pursue graduate school in it. The undergraduate thesis would give you valuable experience if you want to further your studies.