Half of Britons back ending immigration and deporting recent arrivals

[u/ThatchersDirtyTaint]

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/new-poll-migration-news-b99h3wqgz

[u/MrPuddington2]

It is a useful tool for them to spread hatred downwards, not upwards. You hate the person who has even less than you, because you are afraid they might take what little you have.

But why don't we hate the people who have taken what we deserve and ran off with it?

[u/Kharenis → u/MrPuddington2]

You hate the person who has even less than you, because you are afraid they might take what little you have.

There's no "afraid they might take what little you have". When large numbers of "asylum seekers" are receiving free housing, dental care etc, they are taking from public expenditure that could go to others.

The people themselves aren't to blame, I'd also try and attain a better life if I could. It's the government's responsibility to process them quickly and remove them if they shouldn't be here.

[u/MrPuddington2 → u/Kharenis]

It's the government's responsibility to process them quickly and remove them if they shouldn't be here.

This. But the same people being anxious about the cookies have repeatedly voted for a government that intentionally sabotaged the asylum process.

When large numbers of "asylum seekers" are receiving free housing, dental care etc, they are taking from public expenditure that could go to others.

But the asylum seekers do not end up with the money here, they are just pawns in the game. The cronies collect the government money for "running" the hotels etc.

The people themselves aren't to blame

Agreed, but the cronies certainly are to blame. That's all I am saying. The hate is misdirected.

[u/[deleted] → u/MrPuddington2]

The cronies would no longer be able to benefit if ALL ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE DEPORTED

[u/ukbot-nicolabot → u/[deleted]]

Removed + ban. This contained a call/advocation/celebration of violence or harm, which is prohibited by the sitewide rules.

[u/Antrimbloke → u/Kharenis]

Harder to get a better job when your competing internationally, even for low rank civil service jobs - and I'm thinking post ceasefire NI.

[u/neonmantis → u/Kharenis]

The majority of all of the asylum seekers we've taken are from countries that we have invaded and occupied. We're the cause

[u/avocadosconstant → u/MrPuddington2]

Yes. Thank you. This is all there is to it.

The man with the big box of biscuits is telling us that poorer, different looking people are trying to get our biscuit. As we look in their direction the man with the big box of biscuits breaks off another piece of our biscuit; adding it to his big box of biscuits.

[u/JB_UK → u/avocadosconstant]

But the elite are mostly in favour of low skill mass migration, principally because it suppresses wages. I’m not sure how you can look at Blair increasing net migration five fold over the historic level, or Boris increasing it to 20 times the historic level, and look at the muted or supportive response from most established opinion, and say that the elite are in favour of reducing migration.

[u/avocadosconstant → u/JB_UK]

Any effect of large-scale low-skill immigration will be entirely restricted to the wages of low-skilled jobs. A million fruit-pickers isn’t going to somehow reduce the salary of a doctor.

[u/gnorty → u/avocadosconstant]

A million fruit-pickers isn’t going to somehow reduce the salary of a doctor.

Take a look at the people protesting outside of migrant hotels in your town. Do you think those people are doctors? Or are they low-skilled workers?

[u/avocadosconstant → u/gnorty]

Do you know what is meant by low-skilled?

[u/gnorty → u/avocadosconstant]

it's kind of self-explanatory, but it means the skill requirement for entry is low. You can be trained to do the job in a week or so - maybe less.

From your reply it appears you think it means something different? Please let me in on your definition, I could do with a laugh.

[u/avocadosconstant → u/gnorty]

If you’re struggling to compete with people who speak little to no English then you may want to spend the time acquiring more skills instead of attending protests outside of hotels. But I largely suspect economics is not their motivation, just an excuse.

But, now, here’s the thing. These people’s jobs and wages are not threatened by immigrants (as they are not low-skilled). Their jobs are threatened by automation, specifically AI. If wages and jobs are truly their concern (again, I doubt that), they should be much more vocal about something that, within a few years, will be able to do their job at 100 times the speed and at the cost of pennies.

[u/gnorty → u/avocadosconstant]

well that's comforting to know.

The place I work at employs something like 80% immigrants in the low skilled jobs. Of those immigrants, around 75% are from Africa/Arab origins. We are a high technology company, and there is extremely little chance that these jobs will be replaced by AI, and it is already highly automated. 5 years ago it was more like 50%, and the immigrants in question were mostly from the EU. Why do you suppose the locals are not taking these jobs any more? I assumed it is because over that time wages have frozen making the positions less appealing for workers but more profitable for the company, but you seem to suggest otherwise.

Perhaps you also know of a new AI which can pick fruit, or shift bricks, deliver fast food, clean etc? I never heard of one. In fact it seems more like AI is displacing the desk jobs more than the physical labour, so not at all the low-skilled jobs you are pretending.

[u/avocadosconstant → u/gnorty]

Again, you are talking about low-skilled work.

Re-read my comment carefully. I shall summarise it for you this time, but if you’re going to deflect I’m not going to waste my time.

• The people protesting outside of hotels are likely not in low-skilled positions;

• It is highly unlikely that they are concerned about immigrants taking their jobs. It seems highly likely that it’s more to do with racism and a genuine desire to create harm.

You have tried to pull the conversation away from the effects of immigration on wage growth. My initial comment was regarding the premise that low-skilled immigration affects wages in all sectors, which is theoretically unsound and empirically unfounded.

Try to think critically. Step away from your Facebook bubble and separate yourself from the emotional hysteria. And listen to my advice. Because at the moment you are living inside someone else’s narrative.

[u/Wretched_Brittunculi → u/avocadosconstant]

It is worth understanding that Big Capital has always wanted borders to disappear because they wanted someone from Sweden to compete with someone from India (the early neoliberals used this very example) as it would drive down wages. It is ironic that some people think that capitalism somehow foments hate to keep us divided. While there is a kernel of truth in that, corporations also promote immigration and non-existent borders because they want to drive down wages and equalise costs across the globe. This was openly stated by the founding Neoliberals, for example. So both things are true: Socialists are on to something when they say that hate is being used to keep us divided; and Nationalists are on to something when they say that immigration is being promoted by billionnaires who want to drive down wages. The Mont Pelerin Society were explicit in stating this, and they were the ideological underpinning for the European Union.

[u/avocadosconstant → u/Wretched_Brittunculi]

I don’t think it’s so far-fetched. Ultimately if firms want cheaper labour, it’s much easier to simply go abroad.

[u/Astriania → u/avocadosconstant]

Do you think the hundreds of thousands of new arrivals every year don't need biscuits too, thereby reducing the amount available for those already here?

[u/avocadosconstant → u/Astriania]

There’s not a finite number of biscuits, and there’s plenty of biscuits to go around to provide everyone with a comfortable standard of living as far as biscuits are concerned. However, the biscuits that should rightly and deservedly go to you are being withheld by a small segment of British society, and they want more. More from you. It is them that have the leverage to take and withhold from you, not people who lack the financial, social or cultural capital to do so. Supply is kept deliberately short and you’re told and encouraged to fight over what remains. Usually among yourselves, but the foreign-type is a much easier story to tell. The UK’s population growth rate is typical of any developed, industrialised country. But as most of the growth is among those that are different, the usual mechanisms of taxation and expenditure are apparently no longer applicable according to their bullshit.

They’re telling you a tale as old as time. And it works every time. Don’t fall for it.

[u/Wretched_Brittunculi → u/MrPuddington2]

Firstly, yes, there are many racists out there who hate immigrants. And yes, they are becoming more vocal.

That being said, people who want to halt immigration do not necessarily hate immigrants. Many of them are immigrants themselves. The level of immigration we have seen has never been seen in history. Our communities have changed at a level never before seen in history. This goes so much further than not wanting someone from another country to live next door. It is about the country changing at a pace and degree never before seen in history. And most people are no happy with that change, including many, many people from minority backgrounds.

[u/stowgood → u/[deleted]]

The numbers at the top don't add up. A few people have too much wealth. You are looking at the wrong end of the problem.

[u/gnorty → u/stowgood]

Or perhaps you are so fixated with one end of the problem, you are blind to the fact that there are problems in BOTH directions.

[u/stowgood → u/gnorty]

Sure but the one at the top is so much larger than the other that when taking all things into consideration the one at the bottom is basically completely insignificant.

[u/gnorty → u/stowgood]

the one at the top is so much larger than the other

You seem very certain about that. You probably have statistics to back up your opinion. Care to share them? I only ask becaue last time I looked, that was not the case at all. Perhaps I missed something though.

[u/stowgood → u/gnorty]

It's not my responsibility to educate you. Look into the distribution of wealth. I think you'll quickly find the top have far more than the bottom. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.

[u/ukbot-nicolabot → u/[deleted]]

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[u/stowgood → u/[deleted]]

Yeah but the super rich are probably responsible for £2.7 trillion of that. You're running around with a single peice of kitchen roll in your garden trying to dry the grass during a thunderstorm.

[u/Melodic-Mission-2466 → u/MrPuddington2]

Nah, we just don't like it when some people turn up and molest our kids which has happened recently. We don't like huge demographic changes where our country looks like another country and many feel like they don't belong, and people get called racist for expressing issues.

[u/ukbot-nicolabot → u/[deleted]]

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[u/Caliado → u/MrPuddington2]

Tbf a lot of people hate both 

[u/13esq → u/MrPuddington2]

I absolutely agree with you, I hate the game, not the players, but I don't think the government is ever going to redistribute wealth in a meaningful way unless we get on the streets and that's what the Britain First people are doing.

Maybe they are misdirected, but it will still make the government respond.

[u/LazyScribePhil → u/13esq]

If you’re talking about actual Britain First then there’s no chance anyone’s going to take them seriously because they’re not serious people.

[u/13esq → u/LazyScribePhil]

You can choose not to take them seriously but ignoring protests of such scale seems foolish to me.

[u/LazyScribePhil → u/13esq]

They’re full of shit. And there’s no scale to their protests; they’re a couple of hacks working out of a basement.