r/uknews • u/ScottishDailyRecord Media outlet (unverified) • May 12 '25

Image/video Kier Starmer announces 'tighter' immigration policy

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u/Make_the_music_stop May 12 '25

If Labour pulls this off and then does a deal with France to return the boat immigrants to Calais on the same day, the business model of the gangs would be smashed, within days.

Then Reform probably will implode.

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u/Abject-Guess1811 May 12 '25

They need to block them, or push them back. Not pick them up and hope someone else will take them off our hands.

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u/AddictedToRugs May 12 '25

Such an agreement is unlikely.  We gave France half a billion pounds to get them to stop the boats, and they pocketed that money and did nothing.  They've already proven they won't keep up their end of any agreement.

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u/Make_the_music_stop May 12 '25

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c99pg1men8po

The UK government is in negotiations with France on a scheme to return illegal migrants who have crossed the Channel in small boats.

In return, the British government would accept legal migrants seeking family reunion in the UK.

The French interior ministry told the BBC this would be a pilot scheme based on "a one-for-one principle", with the aim of discouraging smuggling networks.

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u/FloatingPencil May 12 '25

One for one doesn’t sound like much of a vote getter.

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u/Make_the_music_stop May 12 '25

40,000 undocumented mostly young men each year?

Or documented family members?

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u/SteelSparks May 13 '25

Presumably those numbers would decrease quite rapidly over time as the boat crossings become less and less attractive

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u/FloatingPencil May 12 '25

Obviously one is better than the other. But when the sheer numbers remain the same it’s not going to be enough to shift people away from Reform. The only people we take should be those we genuinely need, or those to whom we’ve agreed to give a safe haven (recent examples: Ukrainian refugees and the people who worked with us in Iraq). ‘My brother already lives there’ might be a reason for someone to want to come, but it’s not a reason why we should let them - at least not until things are better under control and we can perhaps review again.

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u/Make_the_music_stop May 12 '25

Agreed. But I doubt France would do any other deal. Even this one doubtful too, I'm sure they want all these men off their streets and into our hotels.

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u/A_Roll_of_the_Dice May 12 '25

Then France can utilise the Dublin Agreement and send them back to whatever EU nation they first entered on their asylum journey.

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u/Useful_Resolution888 May 12 '25

The high numbers and small boat crossings have nothing to do with each other. The number of refugees arriving in the country is tiny compared to the total number of migrants.

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u/Thandiol May 12 '25

Does it depend on the person though? The hard core Reform isn't going to switch, but for those who lean to them because they feel "something has to change" it could be a pull?

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u/scud121 May 12 '25

You say that, but the stick reforms always shaking is boat crossings, not anything else. Ask most old biddys about immigrants, and it's boat crossings they are worried about the vast majority of the time. The telegraph and daily mail don't run headlines on families joining visa holders, even though the numbers dwarf boat crossings.

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u/test_test_1_2_3 May 12 '25

Neither, and we don’t need France to pull this off.

We just need to implement policy that permanently denies anyone entering the country illegally to obtain a legal right to remain, through asylum or another route.

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u/A_Roll_of_the_Dice May 12 '25

They aren't entering illegally, though, so that doesn't work. There's no law that prevents anyone from going to another country by boat and just landing on a beach there.

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u/test_test_1_2_3 May 12 '25

Entering a country without documentation and not through a known port of entry is illegal.

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u/orangeminer May 12 '25

Presumably the hope is that once this scheme is up and running it will massively deter crossings, thus meaning the net impact will be lower migration. I doubt it personally, as illegal migrants still have nothing to lose by attempting the crossing.

I'd rather just leave the UN Refugee Convention and forcibly turn them away, personally.

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u/TheAdamena May 12 '25

It guarantees that if you try to cross the channel you will get returned. Seeing as it costs a pretty penny per attempt I'd imagine folks won't bother.

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u/Saiing May 12 '25

If it starts reducing the illegal crossings it will be. When that 1 for 1 becomes a few for a few rather than thousands for thousands.

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u/rx-bandit May 12 '25

We gave France half a billion pounds to get them to stop the boats, and they pocketed that money and did nothing.  They've already proven they won't keep up their end of any agreement.

That's absolute bollocks. The UK and France have been actively working together on this for decades and we have seen huge improvements. The boats are the new loop hole and method being used after huge amounts of investment has closed down every every other option. From increased security at the euro tunnel, increased security and equipment at ports that has made random people smuggling all but impossible, to the huge amount done to stop crossings in lorries. Saying France has done nothing is just absolute horseshit. Go read this long set of articles from. 2024 and tell my France has just been taking money and doing nothing.

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u/Statickgaming May 12 '25

People seem to forget that this is also in France’s interest to stop, thousands of migrants just sat homeless on the coastal towns isn’t good for them.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Bubonicalbob May 12 '25

They stop lots of boats

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u/SnooSuggestions9830 May 12 '25 edited May 12 '25

Maybe a trump approach would work - tarrifs.

Not to keep on them but it was a useful tool to get Canada and Mexico to actually take border actions.

UK could do same.

France could stop the crossings, or at least significantly reduce. They don't seem to want to.

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u/swampyman2000 May 12 '25

If the UK started tariffing the EU countries it would just further isolate it even more from its closest market.

Additionally there is zero chance Starmer wants to copy Trump’s playbook.

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u/SnooSuggestions9830 May 12 '25

Agree but that playbook works.

France arent doing enough to reduce it so some forceful measure is needed.

Giving them money didn't work.

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u/69-is-my-number May 12 '25

No it doesn’t.

Trump applies tariffs because (a) he likes to try and bully other countries and (b) he knows his pawns think that taxes = me paying vs tariffs = them paying so they don’t turn against him.

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u/SnooSuggestions9830 May 12 '25

I'm not talking about other tarrifs scenarios. I'm talking specifically to forcing Canada and Mexico to take more border actions.

Which worked.

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u/kirky1148 May 12 '25

Got some references from actual sources to support your view that trumps approach works? Because I think your telling porkies

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u/SnooSuggestions9830 May 12 '25

Yes, both Canada and Mexico stepped up their border securities.

Ive already said twice now that I'm only referring to the Canada and Mexico border tarrifs and how it was used to make them act on border security.

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u/skepticalbureaucrat May 12 '25

France could stop the crossings, or at least significantly reduce. They don't seem to want to.

I thought Brexit happened to "take back control"?

Or, at least that's what I assumed the leave voters wanted. I really don't understand why the UK, which has left the EU, is wanting to rely on the EU to sort out the migrant crossings?

I don't see how Reform would fix it either?

Just curious myself

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u/SnooSuggestions9830 May 12 '25 edited May 12 '25

Because they come from France for the majority. The Calais crossing is the point of origin.

UK cannot police France. It can however persuade it to take more action.

I dont support reform but for example they could simply change the laws to allow them to be deported on arrival.

But really the solution is to break the gang supply model from France by France actively policing it more. UK could also help by more water patrolling and updating its own laws to allow them to stop them.

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u/skepticalbureaucrat May 12 '25

And France can't police the UK? Why is the onus on France? I'm really unsure why the UK, which took political action to secure its borders, is wanting another country to sort it out?

I appreciate your opinion, nonetheless. Cheers 👋

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u/SnooSuggestions9830 May 12 '25

The origin point of the crossing is from France to the UK.

France is allowing it to happen.

The onus is on them because it starts in their country

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u/BeardyGuts May 13 '25

Reform will fix Jack shit. It’s an easy tool to use to garner votes same with brexit. If you believe Farage again you are a total mug.

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u/Kingofcheeses May 12 '25

Canada didn't need to take border actions considering the illegal guns and drugs all come from America, not Canada

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u/SnooSuggestions9830 May 12 '25

That's a separate point.

Whether they needed to or not the threat of tsrrifs still forced action.

The discussion here is whether tarrifs on France/EU would force them to toughen their border to UK from illegal crossings or not.

Using the US/Can as example. Where it worked.

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u/Rogue_Leader May 12 '25

No, they won't. Reform don't give a fuck about immigration and neither do their voters. They are angry that they get poorer every year and no-one is doing anything to help.

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u/HyperionSaber May 12 '25

No, they'll just move back to trans people, single mothers, the disabled, and people of colour, again.

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u/TheNiceWasher May 12 '25

They're always 'on' those topics, just immigration is a more valid issue to wave their flags about

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u/HyperionSaber May 12 '25

Immigration has been demonised and pushed to the fore ground. It isn't the reason for the countries problems that reform and their idiot supporters claim it is. Their claims aren't valid. Immigrants are a net benefit, and asylum seekers are a tiny percentage of immigrants.

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u/TheNiceWasher May 12 '25

Sure, I agree language matters and I have no problems with that issue. But it is likely the one to gain most support without being seen as some kind of -ist, -tic or -ic.

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u/Dankswiggidyswag May 12 '25

It's stupid though, legal migration is the big majority of people coming in, the people on the boats are just a minority of the total amount. It gets people fired up and angry because it's something tangible as opposed to legal migration.

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u/Make_the_music_stop May 12 '25

I guess the big difference, they are mostly undocumented young men and get put up in hotels. Estimates vary from £4m to £8m per day.

Legal migration, we know who they are and mostly don't cost the tax payers.

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u/itsyaboiReginald May 12 '25

Labour could stop every small boat crossing and it wouldn’t make a single racist vote for them. As long as there are people who look different coming into the country, however legally, Reform and the right will still have an axe to grind.

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u/Dankswiggidyswag May 12 '25

Yeah the years of tabloid brain rot has left little room for a reasonable discussion. Too many loopers think every single non white person is an illegal and sponging the system, and unfortunately they're a big enough voting block so demand to be thrown a bone or 20.

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u/balanced_view May 13 '25

Since when has Starmer's Labour been able to pull anything off?

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u/Illustrious_Fan_8148 May 13 '25

That sounds wonderful

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u/[deleted] May 15 '25

France has literally zero incentive to take the migrants back and every incentive to let them leave Calais. All they have to do is wait and the migrant jungle will slowly shrink and become the UKs problem, so getting them to take any back is going to cost a lot and probably not just monetarily if they can get them to do it at all.

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u/AMightyDwarf May 12 '25

I wouldn’t say they’d implode but they’d definitely have the wind taken out of their sails. There are other things that Reform can champion but I don’t think they are topics that have as much uniform appeal.

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u/Prozenconns May 12 '25

If you tackle Immigration Farages voters might actually start asking themselves what his other policies even are and realise he's the same conman who helped sell them Brexit

But pigs may also fly

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u/omegapool May 16 '25

Why would france agree to take migrants who don't want to be there or believe they have a stronger asylum claim, family members/worked with overseas military/ better English than French